Brandon Ingram

LakersSquad · Post #341 » by **LakersSquad** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:49 am

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:Better or worse prospect than Jabari Parker?

Better

Showtime:Part2 · Post #342 » by **Showtime:Part2** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:58 am

So what are the Knocks on this kid outside of skinniness. The athleticism stuff doesn't really bother me and I can explain why if you want but ignoring those two being issues he figures out, then who does he become? The next peja? Durant? Shrempf? Rashard Lewis?

misterrunon · Post #343 » by **misterrunon** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:48 am

Snotbubbles wrote:I like Ingram as a prospect, but I don't love him. It's going to be 4 or 5 years before his body is even NBA ready. Definitely a useful player in the NBA, but not a guy I think will be a star. In most drafts he wouldn't be considered at the #1 or #2. But in this draft, I don't think you have much of a choice.

He started the season at Duke weighing in at 165 lbs. He is now 197 lbs.

Next year, he can finally dedicate himself 100% to basketball.

Westbreezy · Post #344 » by **Westbreezy** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:37 am

Showtime:Part2 wrote:So what are the Knocks on this kid outside of skinniness. The athleticism stuff doesn't really bother me and I can explain why if you want but ignoring those two being issues he figures out, then who does he become? The next peja? Durant? Shrempf? Rashard Lewis?

I think the skinniness and athleticism are the two major knocks. Skinniness can be improved, athleticism I'm not so sure about. Im curious though, why doesn't the athleticism bother you? Ingram with improved athleticism and first step is an easy superstar. Without it, he can still get to a really high level, but with it its more of a guarantee.

Dr Positivity · Post #345 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:53 am

Showtime:Part2 wrote:So what are the Knocks on this kid outside of skinniness. The athleticism stuff doesn't really bother me and I can explain why if you want but ignoring those two being issues he figures out, then who does he become? The next peja? Durant? Shrempf? Rashard Lewis?

He didn't have that well rounded a season - didn't stand out in defense, rebounding, passing. Prospects who are only scorers are risky because little fallback plan if he disappoints in his skill.

As a scorer he was hardly Durant in college. 20 points on .55 TS% per 40 minutes. He had a mediocre FT/FGA rate which combined with OK ball handling skills, could make him not an average slashing prospect which is one of the best ways to be a dynamic scorer. His shooting is not perfect as while he hit 41% 3pt he only hit 68% FT. Put this it this way he was about the 10th best shooter in the ACC by 3P% and 60th by FT%. Among DX top 100 he was 7th in 3P% among real shot takers and 45th in FT%. Even if all you cared about is the former, it doesn't mean he had an elite, elite shooting season like how Simmons had a one of a kind passing season for a PF or was 1st in his conference at getting to the line. 41% 3pt in a college season happens all the time. FT% is arguably just as important as 3P% though since every FT is taken in the same context instead of difficult vs open shots, assisted vs unassisted, etc. and it's just extra information compared to a small sample size of 3 point shots on a smaller line. And Ingram shoots FTs like Simmons and Dunn.

Basically Ingram's strengths are heavily tilted towards getting his shot off. His FGA volume for a freshman was by far the most standout thing statistically about his college season and it's also what his tools match the most with the height to shoot over opponents. But the game is moving away from valuing players just for the potential to have a 20 point night. It's now about how they do it - does it come with defense, passing, efficiency, etc.? That's why I think Ingram is overrated because his biggest strength of being a volume FGA taker doesn't mean as much as the hype suggests just like it wasn't as important as advertised for Jabari Parker and Jahlil Okafor. If Ingram comes in with the ability to take 15-20 FGAs a night that shot creation is not going to single handily make him a great starter to all-star. A player who gets a lot of shots off can still suck.

kobe808lak · Post #346 » by **kobe808lak** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:06 pm

Ingram is being under rated defensively. I think he can be quite versatile in today's NBA where you need to switch off on to multiple positions. His shooting + great length and defense and you have a great prospect.

Not worried about his weight at all. He just needs a bit more muscle to last him an NBA season. Will probably take 2 years to get his adequate NBA body. He won't look like Lebron but will have the Durant body.

sikma42 · Post #347 » by **sikma42** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:51 pm

I'm I the only one that thinks Ingram projects to be an top tier NBA athlete? He is still growing into his body and once he does I expect peak about Durant level athleticism.

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iamworthy · Post #348 » by **iamworthy** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:41 pm

I dont watch a ton of college but Draftexpress has Ingram as their number one prospect. They have him going second to the lakers because they're lead to believe the Sixers are taking Ben but Ingram is their top guy. I assume Draftexpress has a good reputation. If not can someone give me another site to check out for draft information.

SelfishPlayer · Post #349 » by **SelfishPlayer** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:06 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:That's why I think Ingram is overrated because his biggest strength of being a volume FGA taker doesn't mean as much as the hype suggests just like it wasn't as important as advertised for Jabari Parker and Jahlil Okafor. If Ingram comes in with the ability to take 15-20 FGAs a night that shot creation is not going to single handily make him a great starter to all-star. A player who gets a lot of shots off can still suck.

Don't you think that you are a little bit early on judging those players? It's not like Durant or Kyrie Irving went to the playoffs their first few years in the league. Demar Derozan is doing pretty well. There aren't many guys who can even score 20+ppg if given the chance without them doing it in a Kevin Love fashion where they ONLY play offense and maybe rebound or get in the passing lane for steals. It's too early to say that Ingram's biggest strength is as a volume FGA taker. He may actually become a top scorer like Melo in his prime, Durant, Glen Rice etc... Sure non of the players that I named make anyone on the court better, but that's why GMs get paid to put the right pieces together, so you pair a Lawry with Derozan, etc...

canucklife21 · Post #350 » by **canucklife21** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:08 pm

LakersSquad wrote:
AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:Better or worse prospect than Jabari Parker?

Better

Worse.

Jabari Parker will remind the NBA world why he was the number 2 pick and the rookie of the year until he got hurt.

dham1974 · Post #351 » by **dham1974** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:20 pm

canucklife21 wrote:
LakersSquad wrote:
AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:Better or worse prospect than Jabari Parker?

Better

Worse.

Jabari Parker will remind the NBA world why he was the number 2 pick and the rookie of the year until he got hurt.

He had the past season to prove that but he didn't.

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HotelVitale · Post #352 » by **HotelVitale** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:25 pm

dham1974 wrote:
canucklife21 wrote:
LakersSquad wrote: Better
Worse. Jabari Parker will remind the NBA world why he was the number 2 pick and the rookie of the year until he got hurt.
He had the past season to prove that but he didn't. s

What wasn't to like about last year? He averaged a relatively efficient 19/6/2 after the break, looks to have made his first leap. Wasn't a small sample size or anything either.

HotelVitale · Post #353 » by **HotelVitale** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:36 pm

kobe808lak wrote:Ingram is being under rated defensively. I think he can be quite versatile in today's NBA where you need to switch off on to multiple positions. His shooting + great length and defense and you have a great prospect. .

There's nothing to substantiate that he'll be a great defensive player. Doesn't move well laterally, isn't strong, didn't make much of an impact against substantially smaller guys in the NCAA. Length isn't a guarantee of anything either--he's about the same length as guy like Julian Wright and Terrence Jones who have not proven to be impact defensive players. He's also not a great shooter--he's pretty good, and that's basically just catch-and-shoot. Might get better, sure, but the same could be said of any prospect.

It seems more fair to say 'great length, pretty good shooter, ho-hum defense that has a chance to improve.' I don't mean to rip on him, that just seems like the most accurate way of stating where he's at now. A lot of the upside/potential people are seeing involves an optimistic assessment of his development. (If he was genuinely a great shooter/scorer who played great defense, the the Sixers would be doing cartwheels about having their all-star 3 of the future, instead of frantically trying to get 75 cents on the dollar for Noel or Okafor so they can clear a logjam.)

canucklife21 · Post #354 » by **canucklife21** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:47 pm

My issue with Brandon is with all the trouble and negativity Simmons faced this past season, Brandon still couldn't over ride Simmons as the number one pick.

Some NBA scouts believe 76ers have a tough choice but Simmons to me is clearly the number one pick.

dham1974 · Post #355 » by **dham1974** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:18 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
kobe808lak wrote:Ingram is being under rated defensively. I think he can be quite versatile in today's NBA where you need to switch off on to multiple positions. His shooting + great length and defense and you have a great prospect. .

There's nothing to substantiate that he'll be a great defensive player. Doesn't move well laterally, isn't strong, didn't make much of an impact against substantially smaller guys in the NCAA. Length isn't a guarantee of anything either--he's about the same length as guy like Julian Wright and Terrence Jones who have not proven to be impact defensive players. He's also not a great shooter--he's pretty good, and that's basically just catch-and-shoot. Might get better, sure, but the same could be said of any prospect.

It seems more fair to say 'great length, pretty good shooter, ho-hum defense that has a chance to improve.' I don't mean to rip on him, that just seems like the most accurate way of stating where he's at now. A lot of the upside/potential people are seeing involves an optimistic assessment of his development. (If he was genuinely a great shooter/scorer who played great defense, the the Sixers would be doing cartwheels about having their all-star 3 of the future, instead of frantically trying to get 75 cents on the dollar for Noel or Okafor so they can clear a logjam.)

Please explain why this fast guard can't get by him
https://youtu.be/dxKursKZVbw

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HotelVitale · Post #356 » by **HotelVitale** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:07 pm

dham1974 wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:
kobe808lak wrote:Ingram is being under rated defensively. I think he can be quite versatile in today's NBA where you need to switch off on to multiple positions. His shooting + great length and defense and you have a great prospect. .
There's nothing to substantiate that he'll be a great defensive player. Doesn't move well laterally, isn't strong, didn't make much of an impact against substantially smaller guys in the NCAA. Length isn't a guarantee of anything either--he's about the same length as guy like Julian Wright and Terrence Jones who have not proven to be impact defensive players. )

Please explain why this fast guard can't get by him https://youtu.be/dxKursKZVbw

I don't want to play the role of Ingram-basher, have nothing against him. In that play, the guard waits for a play to develop for like 10 seconds, then Ingram defends his first (tentative) move well, then he makes a real move at 0:16 and gets an okay look. Manages to crossover Ingram and get a nice angle going, then just misses a runner from 6 feet. It's not a great look, but Ingram certainly didn't smother him. If this was really well defended, Ingram would've got in front of the guard's angle at 0:18 and not given him a path to work with.

Do you not see how Ingram doesn't move as quickly side to side as great perimeter defenders? You can see it a little in this play and it's more on display in other vids. Seems obvious to my eyes, not something I'm saying out of prejudice or anything. Believe me, I'd like nothing more than for Philly to have a sweet-shooting knockout-defender at SF, I jut genuinely don't see that with Ingram.

dham1974 · Post #357 » by **dham1974** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:20 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
dham1974 wrote:
HotelVitale wrote: There's nothing to substantiate that he'll be a great defensive player. Doesn't move well laterally, isn't strong, didn't make much of an impact against substantially smaller guys in the NCAA. Length isn't a guarantee of anything either--he's about the same length as guy like Julian Wright and Terrence Jones who have not proven to be impact defensive players. )

Please explain why this fast guard can't get by him https://youtu.be/dxKursKZVbw

I don't want to play the role of Ingram-basher, have nothing against him. In that play, the guard waits for a play to develop for like 10 seconds, then Ingram defends his first (tentative) move well, then he makes a real move at 0:16 and gets an okay look. Manages to crossover Ingram and get a nice angle going, then just misses a runner from 6 feet. It's not a great look, but Ingram certainly didn't smother him. If this was really well defended, Ingram would've got in front of the guard's angle at 0:18 and not given him a path to work with.

Do you not see how Ingram doesn't move as quickly side to side as great perimeter defenders? You can see it a little in this play and it's more on display in other vids. Seems obvious to my eyes, not something I'm saying out of prejudice or anything. Believe me, I'd like nothing more than for Philly to have a sweet-shooting knockout-defender at SF, I jut genuinely don't see that with Ingram.

Anyone with a great handle can create space to get off a shot but Ingram stayed with him and contested the shot. He used his size and wing advantage well.

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Snotbubbles · Post #358 » by **Snotbubbles** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:20 am

misterrunon wrote:
Snotbubbles wrote:I like Ingram as a prospect, but I don't love him. It's going to be 4 or 5 years before his body is even NBA ready. Definitely a useful player in the NBA, but not a guy I think will be a star. In most drafts he wouldn't be considered at the #1 or #2. But in this draft, I don't think you have much of a choice.

He started the season at Duke weighing in at 165 lbs. He is now 197 lbs.

Next year, he can finally dedicate himself 100% to basketball.

This bit of information isn't very useful. There's good weight and bad weight (see Joel Embiid getting to 300lbs). Plus, it's more than just weight, it's strength. Being 100% dedicated won't make a difference and may actually hurt. A non-drug aided person can only add so much muscle mass and strength at one time regardless of how many hours he spends in a gym lifting or how good his diet is. Also, spending more time lifting weights becomes counter productive without the use of illegal enhancers. Plus, his new profession will increase his cardio activity because he'll now be playing twice as much basketball which means he'll have to consume even more calories daily. It's going to be a multiple year process to get him an NBA caliber body with both weight and strength. Adding size and strength during an NBA is extremely difficult because there isn't a lot of down time for rest and recovery. Most of his gains will have to come during the offseason.

Post #359 » by **Duke4life831** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:44 pm

dham1974 wrote:
canucklife21 wrote:
LakersSquad wrote:

Better

Worse.

Jabari Parker will remind the NBA world why he was the number 2 pick and the rookie of the year until he got hurt.

He had the past season to prove that but he didn't.

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19 and 6 on 50% FG% and 54.7 TS% post all star break. The dude definitely looked like the #2 pick the 2nd half of the year. Now he has a full summer of being healthy, I dont think a 20 and 7 season on good efficiency at just 21 years old is much of a stretch

Post #360 » by **Duke4life831** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:49 pm

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:Better or worse prospect than Jabari Parker?

Jabari and its not even close. Jabari had a much higher floor coming out and has already shown he can atleast be a 19/6 type player with good efficiency. Jabari also has the higher ceiling also. I would choose Jabari 10 out of 10 times. Jabari would be the run away #1 pick this year