If Okafor is traded for the 3rd pick, who do you want most?

[rzzzzz]

i don't see the #3 pick being available. not unless Lakers draft Bender, which they don't got the guts. ( admittedly, Ingram has such a high floor, whoever picks him is not going to be unhappy.) but Bender fits both Boston and Phoenix as well. i look for Danny to snag him, and then we got the opportunity to trade Noel for 4 and 13.

[BNelley24]

I changed my mind, I want Jamal Murray, kid can shoot and fits current NBA mold. Fits perfect with our potential lineup.

[BNelley24]

My dream lineup for next season:

PG- Matthew Dellavedova (won't cost a ton, guy is now a veteran who has Playoff experience, can lead a team to a degree, really a Philly-type player, every year some fans have asked the FO to sign a veteran to help the young guys, Matthew is that perfectly, plus he's only 25 so he can still could be around when our core is old enough to contend. Don't get me wrong, Della is just a placeholder till we get our future PG)
SG- Jamal Murray
SF- Robert Covington
PF- Ben Simmons/Dario Saric
C- Jahlil Okafor/Nerlens Noel/Joel Embiid

[Unbreakable99]

My dream lineup for next season:

PG- Matthew Dellavedova (won't cost a ton, guy is now a veteran who has Playoff experience, can lead a team to a degree, really a Philly-type player, every year some fans have asked the FO to sign a veteran to help the young guys, Matthew is that perfectly, plus he's only 25 so he can still could be around when our core is old enough to contend. Don't get me wrong, Della is just a placeholder till we get our future PG)
SG- Jamal Murray
SF- Robert Covington
PF- Ben Simmons/Dario Saric
C- Jahlil Okafor/Nerlens Noel/Joel Embiid

This lineup would be the worst defensive team in the league. I don't like that lineup at all.

[76ciology]

It's tricky to trade Okafor.

He's a polarizing player. I do think to max out his value, he needs to play into a favorable environment for him. Downside of not drafting a plug and play player.

Relative to team assets, you need to get good value for Jah because you need to have 3 star level players to compete nowadays. On paper, you have Simmons and Biid. Noel is a defensive phenom but he doesn't fit that tertiary core player narrative.

Problem lies with Embiid's health. There's an angle of uncertainty. If Biid can't play major minutes and would require to miss games, will that be good enough to be our primary-secondary star? Will the team be talented enough to compete at a high level?

Teams who can provide Jah favorable environment do value him. Celtics is one of the more obvious teams. Problem is they are only a few of them. Thus, demand is not high enough to get you good value. Picks 3-6th also overvalue with talent of prospects in relative to draft position. [tweet]https://twitter.com/nbadraftwass/status/741748187829022721[/tweet]

If Biid is uncertain. If Jah is trading for a discount (likely a less talented player but with better fit). You'll end up with Simmons, Biid's irregular playing stints and bunch of role players. Similarity with Wizards' Wall, oft injured Beal and role players?

And who's to say Simmons is THAT good enough to build your team around when we haven't seen him play (ESPN high bust prospect) There's just too much risk that will lessen the team's margin for error if Jah is traded for a discount.

All you have to do is look at this thread and ask if the line-up post Jah deal would be good enough to play in the finals this season.

[Unbreakable99]

It's tricky to trade Okafor.

He's a polarizing player. I do think to max out his value, he needs to play into a favorable environment for him. Downside of not drafting a plug and play player.

Relative to team assets, you need to get good value for Jah because you need to have 3 star level players to compete nowadays. On paper, you have Simmons and Biid. Noel is a defensive phenom but he doesn't fit that tertiary core player narrative.

Problem lies with Embiid's health. There's an angle of uncertainty. If Biid can't play major minutes and would require to miss games, will that be good enough to be our primary-secondary star? Will the team be talented enough to compete at a high level?

Teams who can provide Jah favorable environment do value him. Celtics is one of the more obvious teams. Problem is they are only a few of them. Thus, demand is not high enough to get you good value. Picks 3-6th also overvalue with talent of prospects in relative to draft position.

If Biid is uncertain. If Jah is trading for a discount (likely a less talented player but with better fit). You'll end up with Simmons + shaky Biid + players that fit (Noel + Roco + Saric + Jah trade).

And who's to say Simmons is THAT good enough to build your team around when we haven't seen him play (ESPN high bust prospect) There's just too much risk that will lessen the team's margin for error if Jah is traded for a discount.

All you have to do is look at this thread and ask if the line-up post Jah deal would be good enough to play in the finals this season.

But will a lineup with Okafor be good enough to play in finals this season? I doubt it. Trade him.

[76ciology]

It's tricky to trade Okafor.

He's a polarizing player. I do think to max out his value, he needs to play into a favorable environment for him. Downside of not drafting a plug and play player.

Relative to team assets, you need to get good value for Jah because you need to have 3 star level players to compete nowadays. On paper, you have Simmons and Biid. Noel is a defensive phenom but he doesn't fit that tertiary core player narrative.

Problem lies with Embiid's health. There's an angle of uncertainty. If Biid can't play major minutes and would require to miss games, will that be good enough to be our primary-secondary star? Will the team be talented enough to compete at a high level?

Teams who can provide Jah favorable environment do value him. Celtics is one of the more obvious teams. Problem is they are only a few of them. Thus, demand is not high enough to get you good value. Picks 3-6th also overvalue with talent of prospects in relative to draft position.

If Biid is uncertain. If Jah is trading for a discount (likely a less talented player but with better fit). You'll end up with Simmons + shaky Biid + players that fit (Noel + Roco + Saric + Jah trade).

And who's to say Simmons is THAT good enough to build your team around when we haven't seen him play (ESPN high bust prospect) There's just too much risk that will lessen the team's margin for error if Jah is traded for a discount.

All you have to do is look at this thread and ask if the line-up post Jah deal would be good enough to play in the finals this season.

But will a lineup with Okafor be good enough to play in finals this season? I doubt it. Trade him.

It's your best chance.

Let's say Simmons and Embiid turns out to be good shooters who are mobile enough on defense, that's where their development is heading anyway. I won't ask them to deviate from direction of their dev. Maybe they'd turn into good complimentary players for Jah. When that happens, you'll get 3 star level scorers. Jah being one of the best scoring rookie big if im not mistaken that you just need to surround them with plug and play players, 2 way positive rpm players.

That's better odds than..
- expecting star level perimeter player for Jah
- expecting high level perimeter FA to sign with us
- expecting we land star perimeter player next draft

I also think the chance of Jah in his second year after experience in his rookie year will likely be a better player. If so, you might get a better trade value atleast during the season

A realistic scenario (mid way of upside and downside) could be Simmons-Jah-Biid turns out like Kawhi-LMA-TD (old TD)

[Sixerscan]

It's tricky to trade Okafor.

He's a polarizing player. I do think to max out his value, he needs to play into a favorable environment for him. Downside of not drafting a plug and play player.

Relative to team assets, you need to get good value for Jah because you need to have 3 star level players to compete nowadays. On paper, you have Simmons and Biid. Noel is a defensive phenom but he doesn't fit that tertiary core player narrative.

Problem lies with Embiid's health. There's an angle of uncertainty. If Biid can't play major minutes and would require to miss games, will that be good enough to be our primary-secondary star? Will the team be talented enough to compete at a high level?

Teams who can provide Jah favorable environment do value him. Celtics is one of the more obvious teams. Problem is they are only a few of them. Thus, demand is not high enough to get you good value. Picks 3-6th also overvalue with talent of prospects in relative to draft position.

If Biid is uncertain. If Jah is trading for a discount (likely a less talented player but with better fit). You'll end up with Simmons + shaky Biid + players that fit (Noel + Roco + Saric + Jah trade).

And who's to say Simmons is THAT good enough to build your team around when we haven't seen him play (ESPN high bust prospect) There's just too much risk that will lessen the team's margin for error if Jah is traded for a discount.

All you have to do is look at this thread and ask if the line-up post Jah deal would be good enough to play in the finals this season.

But will a lineup with Okafor be good enough to play in finals this season? I doubt it. Trade him.

It's your best chance.

Let's say Simmons and Embiid turns out to be good shooters who are mobile enough on defense, that's where their development is heading anyway. I won't ask them to deviate from direction of their dev. Maybe they'd turn into good complimentary players for Jah. When that happens, you'll get 3 star level scorers. Jah being one of the best scoring rookie big if im not mistaken that you just need to surround them with plug and play players, 2 way positive rpm players.

That's better odds than..
- expecting star level perimeter player for Jah
- expecting high level perimeter FA to sign with us
- expecting we land star perimeter player next draft

I also think the chance of Jah in his second year after experience in his rookie year will likely be a better player. If so, you might get a better trade value atleast during the season

A realistic scenario (mid way of upside and downside) could be Simmons-Jah-Biid turns out like Kawhi-LMA-TD (old TD)

We're not surrounding Okafor with good shooting/defending Simmons and a healthy Embiid. Under that scenario, Okafor would be surrounding them. And he's bad at surrounding them because both of those guys are projected to play the same positions he is and/or operate in the same spot on the floor.

I'm not sure where you are getting that 3 front court players like that are going to get enough touches to score at that level. Like in your example of the Spurs Duncan averaged 9 points a game. Are we gonna go back 30 years to the Celtics (who were 3 very different players). Bosh and Love both had to sacrifice scoring playing with Lebron and Wade/Kyrie (And that was with 1.5 wing players). Okafor's usage rate this season was 27.3. Bosh and Love have never had one higher than 24.5 playing with James. Is Okafor going to be able to impact the games in other ways to the point he's effective when he's getting less touches? Playing out of position at the power forward no less.

And no, we're not making the finals next year. That being said trading from our glut of big men to upgrade the guard position would probably do more to improve the team next year than forcing Okafor while Noel Holmes and possible Saric sit on the bench while Hollis leads the team in minutes again somehow. But that shouldn't be the only goal regardless.

[Aussiepiston1]

Trade Saric #26 and Covington for #9 Wright and Ross Draft Jaylen Brown or Baldwin #9 Draft Beasley #24 Keep Noel and Okafor.
try this team out for one Year and see who's the best fit.
Wright/Baldwin
Brown/Beasley/stauskas
Simmons/Brown/Ross
Okafor/Grant/Holmes
Noel/Embiid
Yes I know the shooting won't be the best and Noel Okafor didn't fit last year but I think it's worth another shot since Okafor has worked on his jump shot and we'll have Simmons distributing along with either Baldwin or Wright.
Next year we can either ship Okafor out and play Embiid at PF with Noel at C or Sign and trade Noel somewhere else and Keep Okafor with Embiid.
just my 2 cents

[LloydFree]

My dream lineup for next season:

PG- Matthew Dellavedova (won't cost a ton, guy is now a veteran who has Playoff experience, can lead a team to a degree, really a Philly-type player, every year some fans have asked the FO to sign a veteran to help the young guys, Matthew is that perfectly, plus he's only 25 so he can still could be around when our core is old enough to contend. Don't get me wrong, Della is just a placeholder till we get our future PG)
SG- Jamal Murray
SF- Robert Covington
PF- Ben Simmons/Dario Saric
C- Jahlil Okafor/Nerlens Noel/Joel Embiid

This is my nightmare scenario. I''m guessing that's what you meant by 'dream'.

[freshie2]

Don't want delle as the starting pg. "Philly guy" only works if the player is still true starter. There are better options.

[APettyJ]

::because I don't know how to delete a post on mobile::

[jrue2drew]

I think there would be only 2 options if we trade Okafor (third pick). Either draft Murray or Bender. They both fit around Simmons. I really don't want to see another ball handler, for example Dunn controlling the flow of the game. Would rather have a combo guard (shooter) that can at times run the point. Simmons has to control the flow of the game. I would rather have Simmons play his natural position which is a perimeter point small forward. Run with -

1st Option
C- Noel/Embiid/Bender
PF- Saric (if he comes over)/Grant/Bender (if he comes over)
SF - Simmons/Covington/Grant
SG - Stauskas/Covington/Draft pick or FA?
PG -Draft pick or FA?/Canaan
Within year or two insert Bender as the starting 4.

2nd Option
C- Noel/Embiid
PF - Saric (if he comes over) /Grant
SF-Simmons/Covington/Grant
SG-Stauskas/Covington/Draft pick or FA?/
PG-Murray/Draft pick or FA?/

[LloydFree]

I think there would be only 2 options if we trade Okafor (third pick). Either draft Murray or Bender. They both fit around Simmons. I really don't want to see another ball handler, for example Dunn controlling the flow of the game. Would rather have a combo guard (shooter) that can at times run the point. Simmons has to control the flow of the game. I would rather have Simmons play his natural position which is a perimeter point small forward. Run with -

1st Option
C- Noel/Embiid/Bender
PF- Saric (if he comes over)/Grant/Bender (if he comes over)
SF - Simmons/Covington/Grant
SG - Stauskas/Covington/Draft pick or FA?
PG -Draft pick or FA?/Canaan
Within year or two insert Bender as the starting 4.

2nd Option
C- Noel/Embiid
PF - Saric (if he comes over) /Grant
SF-Simmons/Covington/Grant
SG-Stauskas/Covington/Draft pick or FA?/
PG-Murray/Draft pick or FA?/

This notion is misguided. The Spurs just won a championship with both Tony Parker, Boris Diaw (not to mention the ball handling Ginobli) in the same lineup, getting 30 minutes per game each in the playoffs.

[76ciology]

But will a lineup with Okafor be good enough to play in finals this season? I doubt it. Trade him.

It's your best chance.

Let's say Simmons and Embiid turns out to be good shooters who are mobile enough on defense, that's where their development is heading anyway. I won't ask them to deviate from direction of their dev. Maybe they'd turn into good complimentary players for Jah. When that happens, you'll get 3 star level scorers. Jah being one of the best scoring rookie big if im not mistaken that you just need to surround them with plug and play players, 2 way positive rpm players.

That's better odds than..
- expecting star level perimeter player for Jah
- expecting high level perimeter FA to sign with us
- expecting we land star perimeter player next draft

I also think the chance of Jah in his second year after experience in his rookie year will likely be a better player. If so, you might get a better trade value atleast during the season

A realistic scenario (mid way of upside and downside) could be Simmons-Jah-Biid turns out like Kawhi-LMA-TD (old TD)

We're not surrounding Okafor with good shooting/defending Simmons and a healthy Embiid. Under that scenario, Okafor would be surrounding them. And he's bad at surrounding them because both of those guys are projected to play the same positions he is and/or operate in the same spot on the floor.

I'm not sure where you are getting that 3 front court players like that are going to get enough touches to score at that level. Like in your example of the Spurs Duncan averaged 9 points a game. Are we gonna go back 30 years to the Celtics (who were 3 very different players). Bosh and Love both had to sacrifice scoring playing with Lebron and Wade/Kyrie (And that was with 1.5 wing players). Okafor's usage rate this season was 27.3. Bosh and Love have never had one higher than 24.5 playing with James. Is Okafor going to be able to impact the games in other ways to the point he's effective when he's getting less touches? Playing out of position at the power forward no less.

And no, we're not making the finals next year. That being said trading from our glut of big men to upgrade the guard position would probably do more to improve the team next year than forcing Okafor while Noel Holmes and possible Saric sit on the bench while Hollis leads the team in minutes again somehow. But that shouldn't be the only goal regardless.

Yup, I agree with all you said.

One of Simmons, Jah and Biid has got to sacrifice touches/usage. While currently non of those guys are effective without the ball in their hands. That is when the variables of development and team play comes in.

Development:
Shooting and defense will be the main focus of their development, with or without Jah. They can compliment one another if three of them becomes better shooters (all three shows promising shooting) while all three of them shows mobility+length on defense.

Team play:
Who knows how Simmons and Biid plays. What if Simmons is more of a facilitator like Iggy or the downhill version of LBJ? Although I'm leaning on simmons, I still don't know how will his offense translate in the NBA. Can he score 20 at the perimeter or against dime a dozen long and athletic defenders that LBJ had a tough time with?

What if Biid doesn't play like Wilt or Olajuwon, but more of like Towns, Horford or Ibaka? Embiid only averaged 6FGAs @ 11ppg in Kansas, FWIW.

Truth be told, out of the three of them only Jah is known to be a scorer, this is unlike the OKC situation with Harden, Westbrook and Durant. What's more like OKC is trading jah for loose change that only reminds me of OKC when they traded Harden.

[Sixerscan]

It's your best chance.

Let's say Simmons and Embiid turns out to be good shooters who are mobile enough on defense, that's where their development is heading anyway. I won't ask them to deviate from direction of their dev. Maybe they'd turn into good complimentary players for Jah. When that happens, you'll get 3 star level scorers. Jah being one of the best scoring rookie big if im not mistaken that you just need to surround them with plug and play players, 2 way positive rpm players.

That's better odds than..
- expecting star level perimeter player for Jah
- expecting high level perimeter FA to sign with us
- expecting we land star perimeter player next draft

I also think the chance of Jah in his second year after experience in his rookie year will likely be a better player. If so, you might get a better trade value atleast during the season

A realistic scenario (mid way of upside and downside) could be Simmons-Jah-Biid turns out like Kawhi-LMA-TD (old TD)

We're not surrounding Okafor with good shooting/defending Simmons and a healthy Embiid. Under that scenario, Okafor would be surrounding them. And he's bad at surrounding them because both of those guys are projected to play the same positions he is and/or operate in the same spot on the floor.

I'm not sure where you are getting that 3 front court players like that are going to get enough touches to score at that level. Like in your example of the Spurs Duncan averaged 9 points a game. Are we gonna go back 30 years to the Celtics (who were 3 very different players). Bosh and Love both had to sacrifice scoring playing with Lebron and Wade/Kyrie (And that was with 1.5 wing players). Okafor's usage rate this season was 27.3. Bosh and Love have never had one higher than 24.5 playing with James. Is Okafor going to be able to impact the games in other ways to the point he's effective when he's getting less touches? Playing out of position at the power forward no less.

And no, we're not making the finals next year. That being said trading from our glut of big men to upgrade the guard position would probably do more to improve the team next year than forcing Okafor while Noel Holmes and possible Saric sit on the bench while Hollis leads the team in minutes again somehow. But that shouldn't be the only goal regardless.

Yup, I agree with all you said.

One of Simmons, Jah and Biid has got to sacrifice touches/usage. While currently non of those guys are effective without the ball in their hands. That is when the variables of development and team play comes in.

Development:
Shooting and defense will be the main focus of their development, with or without Jah. They can compliment one another if three of them becomes better shooters (all three shows promising shooting) while all three of them shows mobility+length on defense.

Team play:
Who knows how Simmons and Biid plays. What if Simmons is more of a facilitator like Iggy or the downhill version of LBJ? Although I'm leaning on simmons, I still don't know how will his offense translate in the NBA. Can he score 20 at the perimeter or against dime a dozen long and athletic defenders that LBJ had a tough time with?

What if Biid doesn't play like Wilt or Olajuwon, but more of like Towns, Horford or Ibaka? Embiid only averaged 6FGAs @ 11ppg in Kansas, FWIW.

Truth be told, out of the three of them only Jah is known to be a scorer, this is unlike the OKC situation with Harden, Westbrook and Durant. What's more like OKC is trading jah for loose change that only reminds me of OKC when they traded Harden.

You just completely changed your premise from the last post.

Anyway, If Embiid or Simmons aren't all world players it doesn't change that okafor is a bad fit with them. In fact it makes it more likely that they will be a bad fit with each other.

Harden didn't play durant or westbrooks position. Harden had proven himself to being much more of a player at that point than okafor has. Harden was traded for money reasons not basketball reasons. I'm not sure what the comparison is.

[spikeslovechild]

"If Okafor is traded for the 3rd pick, who do you want most?"

I want Okafor.

Okafor faults are well documented but the players after Ingram and Simmons all have flaws and are lesser prospects then Okafor. Murray doesn't play defense and doesn't have the size to play SG nor the traditional PG skills. Dunn has a questionable shot and only dominated the NCAA once he got old for the league.

I'm not trading Okafor for either player sorry. I wouldn't trade Noel purely from a talent standpoint but his contract situation makes it more appealing to reset the clock with one of these guys and then use the savings to go after an RFA.

For example, while I prefer Noel to Murray I prefer Murray plus Clarkson/Fournier to Noel. My only real concern is whether BC can pull it off. I have no question Hinkie could. In fact, he already did to a certain extent with MCW when he saw the writing on the wall a couple of years ahead. Of course the ping pong balls didn't go his way but the thinking was solid.

[Arsenal]

I don't think Okafor fits with Embiid and Simmons either, but I'm not giving him away without getting value back. Instead I would start him next season, and basically "pump and dump". Have him start at Center with Simmons at PF. Surround them with a real NBA team instead of the D-leaguers we had last year. Have him be the #1 option or #1a so he gets a ton of touches.

If we do that, Okafor will average around 22pt, 10reb, 2ast, 2blk, 1stl per 36 min on ~60% TS next season. Then we'll be able to get A LOT more for him. Right now his value is artificially depressed because of the terrible team he played with last year.

If Okafor switched places with Towns or Porzingis last year he would have been the rookie of the year while whoever was on our team would be thought of as Okafor is now, the 3rd best of those 3 players.

[HotelVitale]

If Okafor switched places with Towns or Porzingis last year he would have been the rookie of the year while whoever was on our team would be thought of as Okafor is now, the 3rd best of those 3 players.

Get a hold of yourself. I agree with the point that Okafor is being undervalued because the team was so bad last year, but there's no need to push it to an absurd extreme. Lots of people want to find all sorts of reasons to discredit him or dismiss him, but he's a potentially elite offensive weapon. But KAT is obviously a much better prospect than Okafor, and refusing to acknowledge that will immediately lose you 100% of your credibility.

[Arsenal]

If Okafor switched places with Towns or Porzingis last year he would have been the rookie of the year while whoever was on our team would be thought of as Okafor is now, the 3rd best of those 3 players.

Get a hold of yourself. I agree with the point that Okafor is being undervalued because the team was so bad last year, but there's no need to push it to an absurd extreme. Lots of people want to find all sorts of reasons to discredit him or dismiss him, but he's a potentially elite offensive weapon. But KAT is obviously a much better prospect than Okafor, and refusing to acknowledge that will immediately lose you 100% of your credibility.

Can you read? Show me where I said Okafor is a better prospect than Towns. Go on and show me.

Make sure you understand what is being said before commenting.