Team Canada Basketball Thread

[brownbobcat]

I've been saying that about Nash for years, he could have elevated this program for years but did nothing... To be honest, Carl English is the real "Captain Canada" he has always been there for this country.

Nobody should be surprised by this.

Steve Nash "Kid Canada" (Ya Right) wanted nothing to do with this team as soon as he became relevant.

Wiggins is just following Nash's playbook to a T. I don't expect him to ever suit up for Canada again.

This is stupid. Nash repped Canada in international play for over a decade, calling it quits when he over 30 and also unhappy with the Triano firing.

[urinesane]

To Americans, who could field 20 different lineups and still be considered the favourites, you simply don't understand.

I'm a Wolves fan, so I understand just fine how it is to have a team pretty much exercising futility for years and on a much bigger stage (the NBA).

I get it, you care that some people from the same generally area as you put a ball through a ring for your honor. I do not. Whether I were in Canada, the US, Argentina, or whatever I still wouldn't care about these lesser tournies. They are meaningless.

Just because I don't care about play outside of the NBA, doesn't mean I don't understand your point, I just think it's meaningless to care this much about something that doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things (even in terms of basketball).

It's not worth the time to put negative thoughts towards this stuff.

[UcanUwill]

If Olympics are meaningless, so is the NBA. Why do we care at all, we just watch and cheer millionaires playing ball.

[Yeezus_]

Maybe on the Men's side but that's far from the truth on the Women's NT.

Im talking about Canada Basketball president and the people under her.

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I've met O'Keefe and she's a shrewd businesswoman who went into the Red to host the FIBA WNT qualifiers in Edmonton and have it put on TSN, just to drum up national attention to the women's program. CB takes risks and has done a admirable job in the past decade raising the level of grassroots basketball in this country.

To say they "don't even know much about the sport" is factually incorrect.

I disagree but this is a public forum so I dont want to say why I believe that or how I would know that.

We will just agree to disagree! lol

[mojo13]

Okay, I've worked my way through denial, anger, bargaining, and depression - and I'm on to acceptance. I kind of assume we'll get 1 or 2 more players who sign their NBA or Europe deals with enough time before the tournament starts to be added to the roster. It'll be tight - but Nash's comments leave the door open for that scenario and I doubt he makes those comments unless he had a few individuals in mind who he expects to have sooner or later. But anyway, assuming nobody else is added and the roster we have now is what we have to choose from:

a) What's the rotation look like for this team
b) What style of basketball do we play? What should our gameplan/approach be given the new realities of our personnel.
c) Who will be leading scorers and key contributors for this team.

This is not the roster I would have hoped - but Corey Joseph is a legit NBA rotation guard. I watched lots of Canada international basketball teams that didn't have anyone at close to the level Joseph is now. Ennis is a legit NBA player, Anthony is technically an NBA player, Brooks probably will be an NBA player. There is some talent to work with here - nowhere near what their could be - but let's switch the discussion to basketball for a bit if we can. How does this team compete?

I think we ride Joseph as far as he can take us. He could have a monster tournament. He'll be the unquestioned leader of this group and I expect him to be in attack mode. He's going to have to be like Westbrook when Durant was out for us - attacking relentlessly. I know that's not exactly the kind of player Joseph is - but that's what I think we'll need him to become to have any hope.

I'd expect Heslip and maybe Brooks to be our other 2 go to scorers. We're going to have to live with Heslip on D as we're going to need a barrage of 3s from him on the other end. I expect to see lots of Ennis as well - but more as a facilitator and less a scorer - though he made need to score more than he's accustomed to just out of necessity.

Let's hear it - this is the hand you've been dealt - how do you win with it?

Well my biggest concern is where we get the offense from. As you say itis not really CoJo's game and he has not really shown that in past FIBA events. I suppose that wasn't his role last summer. Heslip is such a liability on defense, but if we have a rim protection front line he may be a capable starter.

I'd run Ennis at the PG, with CoJo as the SG and run them both heavy minutes. Heslip comes in and guns away and Cojo moves over to the 1.

Brooks and Pierre look to be the best options at SF. Both are strong rebounders out of that position as well. Brooks has better offensive skills but we need to limit his sloppy forced play and high turnover rate though.

Up front I really don;t see what we have - I will still consider Thompson out until I hear otherwise. I wonder if Levon Kendal has much left in the tank. He played on the second worst team in the ACB this year (a good league). He only played 5 games all season as his young child was very sick. I am not sure what condition he is in - and if he can contribute much, but he has a decent history of success for the SMNT so I am drawn to him.

Ejim we have to assume is the starting 4 - he is pretty undersized but I am thankful we have him at this point. He can do a little of everything and we will rely on him for that.

Other than Ejim - there is not much to Joel Anthony besides a limited defensive player. He needs to be pair with some offense or is a mess. Him and TT on the floor together three years ago was a mess. I think he pairs better with Ejim.
Chris Boucher is a pretty unique player and could man the paint against smaller/weaker front lines. He protects the rim and can hit the three which is a rare and useful combo. Can he provide enough offense to be pair with Joel Anthony?

I guess my starting 5 right now is:
Ennis
Cojo
Brooks
Ejim
Anthony

Heslip first guard off the bench. Pierre first wing and Boucher first big. Not sure if we need to go much deeper than that in a short tournament. Phil Scrubb as a back up PG/SG. Throw Bhullar into the mix in case we can leverage him in special situations.

I dont know after that Owen Klassen and someone else maybe Me? You?

[frumble]

Okay, I've worked my way through denial, anger, bargaining, and depression - and I'm on to acceptance. I kind of assume we'll get 1 or 2 more players who sign their NBA or Europe deals with enough time before the tournament starts to be added to the roster. It'll be tight - but Nash's comments leave the door open for that scenario and I doubt he makes those comments unless he had a few individuals in mind who he expects to have sooner or later. But anyway, assuming nobody else is added and the roster we have now is what we have to choose from:

a) What's the rotation look like for this team
b) What style of basketball do we play? What should our gameplan/approach be given the new realities of our personnel.
c) Who will be leading scorers and key contributors for this team.

This is not the roster I would have hoped - but Corey Joseph is a legit NBA rotation guard. I watched lots of Canada international basketball teams that didn't have anyone at close to the level Joseph is now. Ennis is a legit NBA player, Anthony is technically an NBA player, Brooks probably will be an NBA player. There is some talent to work with here - nowhere near what their could be - but let's switch the discussion to basketball for a bit if we can. How does this team compete?

I think we ride Joseph as far as he can take us. He could have a monster tournament. He'll be the unquestioned leader of this group and I expect him to be in attack mode. He's going to have to be like Westbrook when Durant was out for us - attacking relentlessly. I know that's not exactly the kind of player Joseph is - but that's what I think we'll need him to become to have any hope.

I'd expect Heslip and maybe Brooks to be our other 2 go to scorers. We're going to have to live with Heslip on D as we're going to need a barrage of 3s from him on the other end. I expect to see lots of Ennis as well - but more as a facilitator and less a scorer - though he made need to score more than he's accustomed to just out of necessity.

Let's hear it - this is the hand you've been dealt - how do you win with it?

I think you ride Joseph and Ennis hard. They both start and play 30+ minutes. Heslip gets the bulk of the remaining guard time. He may be a liability on D, but we will likely need his shooting.
In terms of 4th guard, I suspect the staff will favor Scrubb, with Calliste getting spot duty at best as the 5th guard.

In terms of SF, I think Pierre has defensive, rebounding, and experience advantages over Brooks, but Brooks is more dynamic offensively. I would use both, but with more minutes to Pierre.

PF/C is where they are weakest. Ejim starts at the 4 and Anthony at the 5. Not sure how much the year away from competitive hoops hurt Kendall, and whether he is a viable option. If he is, he brings a lot of FIBA experience and should make the roster. Boucher and Bhullar should as well, almost of out of default.

If Kendall too rusty, maybe the last spot goes to Klassen or T. Scrubb.

I can't see Hinz, Long, Johnson, Barrett, or Alexander making the roster under any circumstances. I hope Barrett will be leaving camp today or tomorrow to joint the U17 team in Europe.

Starters:
Ennis
Joseph
Pierre
Ejim
Anthony

Main bench contributors:
Heslip
Brooks
one of Kendall, Boucher or Bhullar
Scrubb

[slothrop8]

Okay, I've worked my way through denial, anger, bargaining, and depression - and I'm on to acceptance. I kind of assume we'll get 1 or 2 more players who sign their NBA or Europe deals with enough time before the tournament starts to be added to the roster. It'll be tight - but Nash's comments leave the door open for that scenario and I doubt he makes those comments unless he had a few individuals in mind who he expects to have sooner or later. But anyway, assuming nobody else is added and the roster we have now is what we have to choose from:

a) What's the rotation look like for this team
b) What style of basketball do we play? What should our gameplan/approach be given the new realities of our personnel.
c) Who will be leading scorers and key contributors for this team.

This is not the roster I would have hoped - but Corey Joseph is a legit NBA rotation guard. I watched lots of Canada international basketball teams that didn't have anyone at close to the level Joseph is now. Ennis is a legit NBA player, Anthony is technically an NBA player, Brooks probably will be an NBA player. There is some talent to work with here - nowhere near what their could be - but let's switch the discussion to basketball for a bit if we can. How does this team compete?

I think we ride Joseph as far as he can take us. He could have a monster tournament. He'll be the unquestioned leader of this group and I expect him to be in attack mode. He's going to have to be like Westbrook when Durant was out for us - attacking relentlessly. I know that's not exactly the kind of player Joseph is - but that's what I think we'll need him to become to have any hope.

I'd expect Heslip and maybe Brooks to be our other 2 go to scorers. We're going to have to live with Heslip on D as we're going to need a barrage of 3s from him on the other end. I expect to see lots of Ennis as well - but more as a facilitator and less a scorer - though he made need to score more than he's accustomed to just out of necessity.

Let's hear it - this is the hand you've been dealt - how do you win with it?

I dont know after that Owen Klassen and someone else maybe Me? You?

It won't be me. It's been 22 years since my last high school game. I need to spend the summer working on my game if I'm going to have one last chance at securing a lucrative pro deal before entering my 40s. If called, I will have to decline to participate.

[northernpuppy]

Im talking about Canada Basketball president and the people under her.

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I've met O'Keefe and she's a shrewd businesswoman who went into the Red to host the FIBA WNT qualifiers in Edmonton and have it put on TSN, just to drum up national attention to the women's program. CB takes risks and has done a admirable job in the past decade raising the level of grassroots basketball in this country.

To say they "don't even know much about the sport" is factually incorrect.

I disagree but this is a public forum so I dont want to say why I believe that or how I would know that.

We will just agree to disagree! lol

Fair enough. I'll also say that every organization is susceptible to its fair share of stooges

[aminiaturebuddha]

I think you ride Joseph and Ennis hard. They both start and play 30+ minutes. Heslip gets the bulk of the remaining guard time. He may be a liability on D, but we will likely need his shooting.
In terms of 4th guard, I suspect the staff will favor Scrubb, with Calliste getting spot duty at best as the 5th guard.

In terms of SF, I think Pierre has defensive, rebounding, and experience advantages over Brooks, but Brooks is more dynamic offensively. I would use both, but with more minutes to Pierre.

PF/C is where they are weakest. Ejim starts at the 4 and Anthony at the 5. Not sure how much the year away from competitive hoops hurt Kendall, and whether he is a viable option. If he is, he brings a lot of FIBA experience and should make the roster. Boucher and Bhullar should as well, almost of out of default.

If Kendall too rusty, maybe the last spot goes to Klassen or T. Scrubb.

I can't see Hinz, Long, Johnson, Barrett, or Alexander making the roster under any circumstances. I hope Barrett will be leaving camp today or tomorrow to joint the U17 team in Europe.

Starters:
Ennis
Joseph
Pierre
Ejim
Anthony

Main bench contributors:
Heslip
Brooks
one of Kendall, Boucher or Bhullar
Scrubb

I agree with most of this, but I think I'd agree with mojo's take that Brooks starts and Pierre comes off the bench, if only because Pierre and Ejim are similar players in many ways, so it might be better to have that extra scoring that Brooks brings in the starting lineup.

Scoring in the front court is where we're really going to be hurting, as you guys have mentioned. And even if Thompson appears, this doesn't really move the needle at all. I think they guy we're going to miss more than anyone else for this reason is Trey Lyles. I hope this is one of the players that Nash is still lobbying hard.

In terms of style, maybe Boucher gets lots of playing time and you go with a frequent lineup where everyone on the floor can hit an outside shot (with Boucher at the 5 and Ejim at the 4). I've never really seen the team play that style, but with Ennis facilitating and Heslip always dangerous, it could work. Who knows if Triano can design and run that kind of a system though.

[mojo13]

In an attempt to make people feel a little better,this was our 2010 WC Roster:

4 Jermaine Tashawn Anderson
5 Kelly Olynyk
6 Ryan Bell
7 Jermaine Bucknor
8 Denham Brown
9 Olumuyiwa Famutimi
10 Andrew Jay Rautins
11 Aaron Rene Doornekamp
12 Robert Sacre
13 Jevohn Tyrone Shepherd
14 Levon Maxwell S. Kendall
15 Joel Anthony

Olynyk was like 19 and Sacre was maybe 20 and both in college. Joel Anthony led the team with 10 points a game. Sheppard, Brown and Anderson right behind with 8-9 a game a piece. Granted this was a crappy roster even at the time and 0-5 even losing to Lebanon.

This current roster has to be much better than that, right? Melvin Ejim right now is better than anyone on the 2010 roster at the time (except maybe Joel Anthony). Let alone CoJo and Ennis. Brooks/Pierre are better players or very close to Brown/Sheppard. The seem more talented, but are younger than our wings in 2010.

[aminiaturebuddha]

This doesn't relate to the recent discussion of the SMNT, but as this is the Team Canada thread, I thought I'd post this about one of our younger players on the U18 team (or at least, I assume, there hasn't been an official announcement of the team yet).

DraftExpress had a short write up on Lindell Wigginton from the 2016 Adidas Eurocamp:

Lindell Wigginton, 6-2, Point Guard, Oak Hill, 2017 Class

Strengths
-Good size for a point guard at around 6'2. Strong frame
-Shifty athlete with an extra gear he can get to. Can play above the rim at times
-Shows nice potential as a shot-creator. Has a strong first step. Plays low to the ground and has a variety of ball-handling moves and change of speeds he can utilize to get to the basket. Will execute spin moves with strong body control
-Very aggressive taking the ball to the rim. Doesn't shy away from contact. Gets to the free throw line at a good clip.
-Can create for his teammates as well as himself, particularly in drive and dish situations. Has some creativity to his game
-Will knock down an occasional jump-shot, especially when he sets his feet and is on balance.
-Competes on defense. Has good lateral quickness.

Weaknesses
-Decision making skills can be very poor. Still figuring out how to use his tools effectively in a consistent fashion. Turns the ball over at a very high rate.
-Streaky shooter who shoots the ball differently seemingly every time. Sometimes jumps too far forward or high in the air and relesaes the ball on the way down. Ball comes out of palm in others. Made just 3/11 free throws in Treviso and is a career 60% from the line in 25 games in our database.

Outlook
Canadian point guard from Halifax (Nova Scotia) who played just 14 minutes per game at the EuroCamp behind highly touted UCLA commit Jaylen Hands. Was able to show his athleticism and talent as a shot-creator. Has a lot of tools to work with and looks like an intruguing long-term prospect. Still figuring out how to put them all together and be more consistent with his approach. Somewhat of a late bloomer, has been on the radar quite a bit lately with Oak Hill Academy and was invited to the NBA Basketball Without Borders Global Camp in Toronto last February. Earned his first invite to the Canadian national team recently to compete with the U18 squad at the FIBA Americas Championship in July.

[aminiaturebuddha]

In an attempt to make people feel a little better,this was our 2010 WC Roster:

Joel Anthony led the team with 10 points a game.

Hahaha thanks for the perspective! Wow, hard to imagine Joel Anthony ever leading any team in scoring.

[frumble]

The 2010 team was bad. But I think up front they were better than the current team.

Anthony and Kendall were better in 2010 than they are now. By pretty wide margins.

I'd take a 2010 Sacre over a 2016 Bhullar.

I'd also take a 2010 Kelly Olynyk over a 2016 Boucher. Both were at similar stages of their careers, but even then KO had more offensive game.

Only advantage the 2016 team has is Ejim over Doornekamp, but I don't think its enough to make up for the rest.


In any case, things were supposed to be better under Nash/Triano than they were under Leo. The fact that we are even debating this, or discussing whether Owen Klassen or Levon Kendall (15 months removed from his last competitive basketball game?) gets a roster spot is just sad.


Re Pierre vs. Brooks, I think both will see significant time. Given our lack of viable options up front, I can see averaging more than 20 MPG, as we go with the small lineups that only have 1 true big.



Re Wigginton, Draft Express is wrong re this being his first invite to team Canada. In 2014 he was invited to the Cadet team camp but was cut. I believe Howard Washington and Nelson Kaputo ended up being the PGs on that team (with Jamal Murray at SG). I think Marquell Fraser also saw some time at point.

[frumble]

One other note - EuroBasket reporting that Ejim re-signed with Umana Venezia for another season.

[mojo13]

The 2010 team was bad. But I think up front they were better than the current team.

Anthony and Kendall were better in 2010 than they are now. By pretty wide margins.

I'd take a 2010 Sacre over a 2016 Bhullar.

I'd also take a 2010 Kelly Olynyk over a 2016 Boucher. Both were at similar stages of their careers, but even then KO had more offensive game.

Only advantage the 2016 team has is Ejim over Doornekamp, but I don't think its enough to make up for the rest.


In any case, things were supposed to be better under Nash/Triano than they were under Leo. The fact that we are even debating this, or discussing whether Owen Klassen or Levon Kendall (15 months removed from his last competitive basketball game?) gets a roster spot is just sad.


Re Pierre vs. Brooks, I think both will see significant time. Given our lack of viable options up front, I can see averaging more than 20 MPG, as we go with the small lineups that only have 1 true big.



Re Wigginton, Draft Express is wrong re this being his first invite to team Canada. In 2014 he was invited to the Cadet team camp but was cut. I believe Howard Washington and Nelson Kaputo ended up being the PGs on that team (with Jamal Murray at SG). I think Marquell Fraser also saw some time at point.

2010 Olynyk wasn't very good. It was between his freshman and sophomore year and was well before he took the red-shirt year off to transform himself. He didnt start for Gonzaga in 2010 and I am not sure average more than 10 minutes a game on not a great team. Sacre at that time was also not very good - and I really dont think better than a Bhullar with 2 years of "pro" ball under his belt. I actually think Bhullar can be useful in the right situation (game specific situations, limited minutes). I think 2016 Ejim is better than 2010 Kendall. But yes - 2010 Joel Anthony is much better than 2016 Joel Anthony.

Yes, what a sad pathetic debate....

[Undefeated]

LOL a person who I know has intel on the SMNT told me some stuff that's going on. You won't believe the stuff I heard. Let's just say no guarantees yet. And to confirm, yes all 3 main guys of the SMNT are training with the same trainer as expected. You'll know who it is real soon. Also some former SMNT guys...

[Undefeated]

Im talking about Canada Basketball president and the people under her.

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I've met O'Keefe and she's a shrewd businesswoman who went into the Red to host the FIBA WNT qualifiers in Edmonton and have it put on TSN, just to drum up national attention to the women's program. CB takes risks and has done a admirable job in the past decade raising the level of grassroots basketball in this country.

To say they "don't even know much about the sport" is factually incorrect.

I disagree but this is a public forum so I dont want to say why I believe that or how I would know that.

We will just agree to disagree! lol

Unless you actually work with CB not a word you said is correct.

[aminiaturebuddha]

LOL a person who I know has intel on the SMNT told me some stuff that's going on. You won't believe the stuff I heard. Let's just say no guarantees yet. And to confirm, yes all 3 main guys of the SMNT are training with the same trainer as expected. You'll know who it is real soon. Also some former SMNT guys...

Sorry, I know you're trying to be cryptic to protect your source, but could you be a little more clear? What do you mean by "no guarantees yet"? Do you mean that the 3 NBA guys who are in training camp aren't guaranteed to actually play with the team, or that the list we see now isn't guaranteed to be the final list and we may see more names?

[Undefeated]

You may see more names but it won't be NBA guys. Let's just say the list isn't a full commitment.

[mojo13]

You may see more names but it won't be NBA guys. Let's just say the list isn't a full commitment.

Spill the dirt!!!

We need some hope here. Birch, Pangos, Hanlan, Bachynski could all help.