Kyrie Irving would rather play somewhere else

[ATLHawksfan21]

:nonono:


I'll just add it back to the Predictions List.


Teague owns 3x All Star Kyrie Irving.

Hawks will abuse the Cavs in the playoffs.

Kyrie will never sniff a championship.

Let's add another prediction.

Lebron and Kyrie will not play for the same team next year. Either Lebron ditches Cleveland or LeGM has Kyrie shipped away.

Its not the GB but i wanted to ask, if CLE gets swept , what happens this offseason?

With the highest payroll in the league, and Lebron will no longer be THE DESTINATION to go to, what would CLE do?

My guess is they would shop everyone. KI for Chris Paul? Love for Melo? Just spitballing here. I would think there would be a major push to pick up a CP3 if the Clippers would talk.

Maybe Conley ? I think they would be looking for a play maker and not a scorer.

The thing is, I don't think the Clippers would even entertain the Kyrie for Paul talk after seeing how Kyrie has fared against the Warriors. Kyrie would struggle badly in a Western conference playoff that features Curry, Westbrook and Lillard.

Sending Kyrie to Philly for Noel, Stauskas and a pick would be a good idea if they would bite.

Then you could ship Love to NYK for Melo if they are receptive but they already have Porzingis at the PF and they seem to like Lopez at Center.

LeGM has done irreversible damage to that roster by overpaying several players and obtaining so many 1-way players. Lebron and J.R. may be the only 2 way players on the entire Cavs roster and this is what is killing them the most.


I wouldn't be surprised if Lebron ditched Cleveland again and he has already hinted at it in this conversation with Wade on Christmas day.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CqRfg79nxM[/youtube]

[King Ken]

There not trading Kyrie in a PG driven league unless they get back, a PG

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[ATLHawksfan21]

There not trading Kyrie in a PG driven league unless they get back, a PG

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Kyrie is a SG in a PG's body. He has 5 assists and 6 turnovers in 71 minutes and he often doesn't guard the opposing PG.

[PandaKidd]

Let's add another prediction.

Lebron and Kyrie will not play for the same team next year. Either Lebron ditches Cleveland or LeGM has Kyrie shipped away.

Its not the GB but i wanted to ask, if CLE gets swept , what happens this offseason?

With the highest payroll in the league, and Lebron will no longer be THE DESTINATION to go to, what would CLE do?

My guess is they would shop everyone. KI for Chris Paul? Love for Melo? Just spitballing here. I would think there would be a major push to pick up a CP3 if the Clippers would talk.

Maybe Conley ? I think they would be looking for a play maker and not a scorer.

The thing is, I don't think the Clippers would even entertain the Kyrie for Paul talk after seeing how Kyrie has fared against the Warriors. Kyrie would struggle badly in a Western conference playoff that features Curry, Westbrook and Lillard.

Sending Kyrie to Philly for Noel, Stauskas and a pick would be a good idea if they would bite.

Then you could ship Love to NYK for Melo if they are receptive but they already have Porzingis at the PF and they seem to like Lopez at Center.

LeGM has done irreversible damage to that roster by overpaying several players and obtaining so many 1-way players. Lebron and J.R. may be the only 2 way players on the entire Cavs roster and this is what is killing them the most.


I wouldn't be surprised if Lebron ditched Cleveland again and he has already hinted at it in this conversation with Wade on Christmas day.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CqRfg79nxM[/youtube]

I dont think the clippers would do it, CLE would have to give up a lot to make that happen i would think.

CLEs best bet may be getting Conley in FA, Kyrie to the 2 spot? If Kyrie would do it. Most of the times guys in the NBA dont switch positions this late in their career. That team and payroll is so high.

So let me ask you a different question , who do you think is more LIKELY to get shipped out? Kyrie or Love? I say Kyrie. Stretch 4 in Love is still valuable, and with Mozgof prob gone in FA, I cant seen them thinning out the front court too much. Kyrie will still get you elite talent back.

I dont think Lebron needs an elite PG, he needs a playmaker. The HEAT never had a real awesome PG, they had role players in Norris and Chalmers.

[PandaKidd]

There not trading Kyrie in a PG driven league unless they get back, a PG

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

*they're

Maybe, but Lebron can play PG too, hell, like i said Miami never had superstar PGs. Lebron just needs someone to run the offense, and shoot a decent clip from 3.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Its not the GB but i wanted to ask, if CLE gets swept , what happens this offseason?

With the highest payroll in the league, and Lebron will no longer be THE DESTINATION to go to, what would CLE do?

My guess is they would shop everyone. KI for Chris Paul? Love for Melo? Just spitballing here. I would think there would be a major push to pick up a CP3 if the Clippers would talk.

Maybe Conley ? I think they would be looking for a play maker and not a scorer.

The thing is, I don't think the Clippers would even entertain the Kyrie for Paul talk after seeing how Kyrie has fared against the Warriors. Kyrie would struggle badly in a Western conference playoff that features Curry, Westbrook and Lillard.

Sending Kyrie to Philly for Noel, Stauskas and a pick would be a good idea if they would bite.

Then you could ship Love to NYK for Melo if they are receptive but they already have Porzingis at the PF and they seem to like Lopez at Center.

LeGM has done irreversible damage to that roster by overpaying several players and obtaining so many 1-way players. Lebron and J.R. may be the only 2 way players on the entire Cavs roster and this is what is killing them the most.


I wouldn't be surprised if Lebron ditched Cleveland again and he has already hinted at it in this conversation with Wade on Christmas day.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CqRfg79nxM[/youtube]

I dont think the clippers would do it, CLE would have to give up a lot to make that happen i would think.

CLEs best bet may be getting Conley in FA, Kyrie to the 2 spot? If Kyrie would do it. Most of the times guys in the NBA dont switch positions this late in their career. That team and payroll is so high.

So let me ask you a different question , who do you think is more LIKELY to get shipped out? Kyrie or Love? I say Kyrie. Stretch 4 in Love is still valuable, and with Mozgof prob gone in FA, I cant seen them thinning out the front court too much. Kyrie will still get you elite talent back.

I dont think Lebron needs an elite PG, he needs a playmaker. The HEAT never had a real awesome PG, they had role players in Norris and Chalmers.

Unfortunately for them, they are way above the cap and won't be able to sign any free agents other than with whatever small exceptions they have available. The problem is exacerbated by the rise of the cap which will give most other teams a ton of cap space. Almost every free agent will be overpaid this off-season and the Cavs won't be able to win a bidding war against anyone. I don't see players taking a discount to go play in Cleveland when they are getting destroyed in the Finals.

I would probably say Love is more likely to be traded since Lebron can play the 4 (and should play the 4 since he has no jumper). I also think Love is a better player than Kyrie and they could get more in return for Love. PGs are a dime a dozen in this league and this could hurt Kyrie's trade value. Love has had some success as the #1 guy while Kyrie was a huge failure as the #1 guy. They really need to trade both away for some 2-way players that can play off of Lebron since Lebron is dead-set on playing ISO-ball.

[PandaKidd]

that was my other point, Lebron used to get people to take discounts to come chase rings with him. Now, thats not happening, sure hes getting to the finals every year, but is that enough?

GSW arent going anywhere. Hes going to have to contend with them/spurs/OKC for at least another 2 years.

It will be interesting, I suspect itll be whatever one has the highest trade value. Lebron wont leave, that is not happening. But I cant see Lebron and Gilbert reupping with the same squad if they get swept.

TT could be trade bait with Shumpert/Frye

They are going to be at 103 million in payroll next year with only 9 guys

[Jamaaliver]

Israel Gutierrez ponders if CLE really would consider moving Kyrie this summer if the GSW sweep proceeds.

Here at the 26:30 mark.


I'm doubling down. For a star, All Star, All NBA PG entering his prime, I'd give up pretty much anything on this roster.

There is no better trade chip and no better recruitment tool in our arsenal right now.

If we can get THJ to look like an actual rotation NBA player, I'd love to see our staff (minus Kenny Atkinson ) get a shot at developing KI into a franchise player.


If the alternative is an expiring, 28 year old Teague or a first year starter in Dennis Schroder...I'll take KI all day, every day.

[Geaux_Hawks]

that was my other point, Lebron used to get people to take discounts to come chase rings with him. Now, thats not happening, sure hes getting to the finals every year, but is that enough?

GSW arent going anywhere. Hes going to have to contend with them/spurs/OKC for at least another 2 years.

It will be interesting, I suspect itll be whatever one has the highest trade value. Lebron wont leave, that is not happening. But I cant see Lebron and Gilbert reupping with the same squad if they get swept.

TT could be trade bait with Shumpert/Frye

They are going to be at 103 million in payroll next year with only 9 guys

Well I think a lot of ring chasers are seeing the drawbacks of joining a Lebron team. They're just relegated to being a corner 3 specialist, and place all of their hopes in Lebron leading them to a championship. Thing is, Lebron is on course to being 2-5(could easily be 1-6) in the Finals, so is it really worth joining Lebron just to lose when it matters?

TT isn't getting you much of anything. Love at the very least needs to be traded.

[MaceCase]

Answer could be simpler, It's one thing to chase rings in South Beach......it's another to chase them in Cleveland.

[PandaKidd]

Touche

[PandaKidd]

So yeah, he's pretty good.....

Sorry had to do it :p

[Jamaaliver]

So yeah, he's pretty good.....

Sorry had to do it :p

Yeah, regardless of whether the Cavs manage to upset GSW or not, KI has proven...against every opponent this postseason...just how effective he can be.

He still has some bad habits, but his skillet and talent are undeniable. You can make the argument that he's outplayed Curry thus far in the Finals.

...and he's only 24.

Serious question: Do people here still believe that Jeff Teague owns KI?


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

[Geaux_Hawks]

So question. What's actually being argued here? Is it that Kyrie is a top 3 PG? Is it to find out if he is better than Teague? Like what's been the whole point of bringing up Kyrie's good/bad games?

[Jamaaliver]

So question. What's actually being argued here? Is it that Kyrie is a top 3 PG? Is it to find out if he is better than Teague? Like what's been the whole point of bringing up Kyrie's good/bad games?

Three prominent posters repeatedly stated that Teague owned KI.
That the Hawks would beat the Cavs in the playoffs if Love and Kyrie were playing, because their defense was just that awful.
That KI is overrated and wasn't even worth considering acquiring if CLE actually made him available...because Teague was a better player/PG/floor general/two-way player.

There was a lot of craziness thrown in from both sides...but that was the gist.

We put the argument on hold to see if we could gain more clarity...but KI and Love having big series against us didn't settle it.
Kyrie leading the Cavs in scoring during the Eastern Playoffs didn't settle it.
Teague being benched during the CLE series in favor of the backup didn't settle it.

KI having a bad start to this series didn't settle it.
KI playing phenomenally well these last three games likely won't settle it either.

[Jamaaliver]

So question. What's actually being argued here?

A sampling of some of the more...polarizing statements made here:

If you swap out Teague for Kyrie, i think at best it only improves the team by 1 win.

Kyrie isn't elite talent. For the money he makes and what you would have to give up for a injury prone, no defense playing, consistent loser as the alpha dog on his team.

...we would have beaten the Cavs if Love and Irving played. I [can't] believe you have watched a 1-4 pick and roll against the Cavs and think we wouldn't have been better off with their better offensive team playing versus the elite defensive squad they were able to put out there.

Is Kyrie even coach-able?

Kyrie is an overrated bum and Teague once again outplayed him on Saturday night. Teague +18, Kyrie -13.

All flash, no substance. I want no part of giving up big assets just to overpay a stat padder.

... I wouldn't mind facing Cleveland in the playoffs with a healthy Kyrie and Love. Teague and Millsap straight abused both of them all night and the same will happen in the playoffs...Kyrie is a non-factor all the time and Love is a non-factor when Kyrie is playing.

1 million excuses won't change the fact that Kyrie Irving doesn't play winning basketball. All flash, no substance. That is what Kyrie has been and what he will continue to be.

Al Horford's play results in more wins for his team than Kyrie's does. There is a 5 page thread on the gen board right now which suggests that the Cavs would be better off with Delly starting.

Exactly Delly, really. A slow role player has been far more productive for the Cavs this season than superstar elite all-world Irving.

Kyrie is a less talented, undersized and far more injury prone version of James Har_en. Lou Williams with fancier handles.

Good luck on trying to paint a picture of Kyrie being the reason why the Cavs swept us when Dennis or Teague matched his production in every game other than game 2.

Let's add another prediction.

Lebron and Kyrie will not play for the same team next year. Either Lebron ditches Cleveland or LeGM has Kyrie shipped away.

...I don't think the Clippers would even entertain the Kyrie for Paul talk after seeing how Kyrie has fared against the Warriors. Kyrie would struggle badly in a Western conference playoff that features Curry, Westbrook and Lillard.

FYI I don't care what analytics say, Kyrie is a better player than teague, no question, ever. People arguing for delevedova over KI are fools

I mean people see what they want to see. KI is just much more talented than any PG we have, period. Love is still REALLY REALLY good.

...it's clear KI is fitting in pretty well with this adjusted CAVS offense. He is an offensive weapon of elite talent, just approaching his prime and is being deployed properly in a surprisingly efficient system...

I'm doubling down. For a star, All Star, All NBA PG entering his prime, I'd give up pretty much anything on this roster. I'd love to see our staff (minus Kenny Atkinson ) get a shot at developing KI into a franchise player...I'll take KI all day, every day.

KI has proven...against every opponent this postseason...just how effective he can be.

You can make the argument that he's outplayed Curry thus far in the Finals.

[Geaux_Hawks]

So question. What's actually being argued here? Is it that Kyrie is a top 3 PG? Is it to find out if he is better than Teague? Like what's been the whole point of bringing up Kyrie's good/bad games?

Three prominent posters repeatedly stated that Teague owned KI.
That the Hawks would beat the Cavs in the playoffs if Love and Kyrie were playing, because their defense was just that awful.
That KI is overrated and wasn't even worth considering acquiring if CLE actually made him available...because Teague was a better player/PG/floor general/two-way player.

There was a lot of craziness thrown in from both sides...but that was the gist.

We put the argument on hold to see if we could gain more clarity...but KI and Love having big series against us didn't settle it.
Kyrie leading the Cavs in scoring during the Eastern Playoffs didn't settle it.
Teague being benched during the CLE series in favor of the backup didn't settle it.

KI having a bad start to this series didn't settle it.
KI playing phenomenally well these last three games likely won't settle it either.

When you say owned, do you mean scored a lot of points against him which exposed KI as a defender?

I doubt we ever had a chance against the Cavs unless you was being optimistic about it. We didn't address the need for more scoring, and lost DMC defense and effort/hustle.

I would join that group that suggest that Teague is a better 2-way player and Floor General. What kills Teague is his consistency. One day Teague could be one of the better PG's, and then the next he folds back into just being an average guy. KI is definitely the better scorer, and that's mostly all he does have, but he does that pretty good when he's on like he was last night.

For as good as KI is as a scorer though, he can give up the same 30 points he put up. With that said, he can have moments that at least make him look average as a defender. So if somehow a KI/JT deal came around, I would jump all over it for this current setup. That's not to say that you should be building a team specifically around him, but he can definitely be a core guy for this team.

KI is better suited being your 2nd best player, and your #1 scoring option. The Hawks lacked a consistent go-to threat, so adding KI with this years squad of KK, Baze, Sap, and Al would have been a bigger force than what the team was. Milsaps is your best player, but KI is the go-to scorer that gets us buckets when we need them. Those scoring droughts we saw in games would immediately go away.

[Geaux_Hawks]

FWIW, we didn't really attack the Cavs the way we should have to expose both Love and KI defense, but Al was soft as it.

[td00]

We simply do not match up well with LeBron, and even if he's out of the game, we don't just dominate the Cavs like we should.
Teague has had some success vs. CLE, and I think he can lift us, but he needs serious help.

We need a big uptick at the 2 & 3.....could we contend this season with a rotation of Sap/Splitter, Humphries & Moose? I think so as our perimeter needs are huge.

I'm wanting Bud to go get a Top 10 pick and bring in someone who can start solidifying a starting slot on this roster. There is talent in this draft. We need to grow our superstars in this city.

Someone I'm interested in in free agency: Allen Crabbe of Portland, even if we have to pay to keep Baze in our rotation.

[Jamaaliver]

KI made some truly bone headed plays in Game 7 tonight. Particularly, a lack of awareness in End of Game/End of Quarter situations.

But he made some phenomenal plays at big moments. Scoring at will over a number of defenders.

He is an elite talent that, when used properly, can go toe-to-toe with any PG in the league. He outplayed the MVP this Finals and just added yet another bullet point to his Hall of Fame resume.


Players in recent history with All Star, All NBA, NBA Title credentials before age 25?

Duncan
Kobe
Kyrie


There's no way we could turn down an elite talent like KI over...Jeff Teague???