The Official Off-Season Thread, part I of many

[Jingles]

Smart, Johnson, #23 and 31 to NYK
Melo & #16 to CLE
Love to Boston

10 man Roster
Love
Crowder
Bradley
Thomas
#3 Pick
Olynyk
Mickey
Young
Hunter
Rozier

too much to give up to become worse. Love will not help us much IMO. that said ,the Value is fair, but i don't like it.

I have yet to see a credible offer posted that gives us Love and actually makes the team better in a vacuum. All are some variation of:

1. Lowball or pick-heavy offer that won't get it done (Cleveland needs players)
2. Give up too much in a way that transforms the team in a clearly negative way (Bradley+Crowder type offers)
3. Offer w/ caveat that we acquire Love to draw others here

There is reason in #3, but only if the other guy(s) are truly great because, again, the deal for Love makes you worse and something big is needed to balance that. The value just isn't right anymore without a Durant miracle (which even then is really just creating Cavs East without adding a great defensive C on top of it). Too many moving pieces needed to make it work.

[Marley2Hendrix]

Smart, Johnson, #23 and 31 to NYK
Melo & #16 to CLE
Love to Boston

10 man Roster
Love
Crowder
Bradley
Thomas
#3 Pick
Olynyk
Mickey
Young
Hunter
Rozier

too much to give up to become worse. Love will not help us much IMO. that said ,the Value is fair, but i don't like it.

I have yet to see a credible offer posted that gives us Love and actually makes the team better in a vacuum. All are some variation of:

1. Lowball or pick-heavy offer that won't get it done (Cleveland needs players)
2. Give up too much in a way that transforms the team in a clearly negative way (Bradley+Crowder type offers)
3. Offer w/ caveat that we acquire Love to draw others here

There is reason in #3, but only if the other guy(s) are truly great because, again, the deal for Love makes you worse and something big is needed to balance that. The value just isn't right anymore without a Durant miracle (which even then is really just creating Cavs East without adding a great defensive C on top of it). Too many moving pieces needed to make it work.

Well, I think cleveland may find that 16/23, Rozier and Amir is the best offer they receive for Love. If the previously reported rumor of #3 for DAJ is available (maybe 3 to NYK, melo to LAC, though I don't see it), then we have a very enticing pitch to KD while still banking on next year's BKN as our fallback if we get spurned. Agreed, very tricky proposition to build a deal around Love that makes sense..

[Fencer reregistered]

Smart, Johnson, #23 and 31 to NYK
Melo & #16 to CLE
Love to Boston

10 man Roster
Love
Crowder
Bradley
Thomas
#3 Pick
Olynyk
Mickey
Young
Hunter
Rozier

too much to give up to become worse. Love will not help us much IMO. that said ,the Value is fair, but i don't like it.

I have yet to see a credible offer posted that gives us Love and actually makes the team better in a vacuum. All are some variation of:

1. Lowball or pick-heavy offer that won't get it done (Cleveland needs players)
2. Give up too much in a way that transforms the team in a clearly negative way (Bradley+Crowder type offers)
3. Offer w/ caveat that we acquire Love to draw others here

There is reason in #3, but only if the other guy(s) are truly great because, again, the deal for Love makes you worse and something big is needed to balance that. The value just isn't right anymore without a Durant miracle (which even then is really just creating Cavs East without adding a great defensive C on top of it). Too many moving pieces needed to make it work.

You missed a 4th category -- multi-team deal. Mainly, that's with Melo, because he's the most obvious star who could insist on going to Cleveland to replace Love rather than coming here directly.

[Jingles]

too much to give up to become worse. Love will not help us much IMO. that said ,the Value is fair, but i don't like it.

I have yet to see a credible offer posted that gives us Love and actually makes the team better in a vacuum. All are some variation of:

1. Lowball or pick-heavy offer that won't get it done (Cleveland needs players)
2. Give up too much in a way that transforms the team in a clearly negative way (Bradley+Crowder type offers)
3. Offer w/ caveat that we acquire Love to draw others here

There is reason in #3, but only if the other guy(s) are truly great because, again, the deal for Love makes you worse and something big is needed to balance that. The value just isn't right anymore without a Durant miracle (which even then is really just creating Cavs East without adding a great defensive C on top of it). Too many moving pieces needed to make it work.

You missed a 4th category -- multi-team deal. Mainly, that's with Melo, because he's the most obvious star who could insist on going to Cleveland to replace Love rather than coming here directly.

Sure, but that category is just as unlikely. Celtics can't trade the 3rd pick for Love and--wrong or right--the Knicks wouldn't accept anything less for Melo.

[Murta]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JonesOnTheNBA/status/742630991043301376[/tweet]

Nate Jones @JonesOnTheNBA
Nate Jones Retweeted Jonathan Tjarks
I've heard Love's knees are shot and that's why he didn't take a two year deal for the 2016 money last summer.

Things finally make sense, he didn't just vanish from MVP level to nothing in a span of few months.

[ConstableGeneva]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Scott_Souza/status/742707208404639744[/tweet]
But I already had dreams of Durant playing alongside IT, Crowder, Butler and Noel!

[Bohemian]

This may be an article to help soften the pressure on AInge´s trade possibilities in order to not look desperate for a trade (which helps have some leverage in trade discussions)

Don´t panic, people. Danny is going to make some splash news

[Fencer reregistered]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/JonesOnTheNBA/status/742630991043301376[/tweet]

Nate Jones @JonesOnTheNBA
Nate Jones Retweeted Jonathan Tjarks
I've heard Love's knees are shot and that's why he didn't take a two year deal for the 2016 money last summer.

Things finally make sense, he didn't just vanish from MVP level to nothing in a span of few months.

If that's true, then the Wiggins trade looks pretty bad for Cleveland.

[TheRev72]

I have yet to see a credible offer posted that gives us Love and actually makes the team better in a vacuum. All are some variation of:

1. Lowball or pick-heavy offer that won't get it done (Cleveland needs players)
2. Give up too much in a way that transforms the team in a clearly negative way (Bradley+Crowder type offers)
3. Offer w/ caveat that we acquire Love to draw others here

There is reason in #3, but only if the other guy(s) are truly great because, again, the deal for Love makes you worse and something big is needed to balance that. The value just isn't right anymore without a Durant miracle (which even then is really just creating Cavs East without adding a great defensive C on top of it). Too many moving pieces needed to make it work.

You missed a 4th category -- multi-team deal. Mainly, that's with Melo, because he's the most obvious star who could insist on going to Cleveland to replace Love rather than coming here directly.

Sure, but that category is just as unlikely. Celtics can't trade the 3rd pick for Love and--wrong or right--the Knicks wouldn't accept anything less for Melo.

No way Melo, at his age, is worth the #3 pick. No way Love, with his current troubles and balky knees, is worth the #3 pick. Picks 16 and 23 and maybe a future C's pick to the Knicks should be sufficient to grease the wheels of that three way trade.

[Fencer reregistered]

You missed a 4th category -- multi-team deal. Mainly, that's with Melo, because he's the most obvious star who could insist on going to Cleveland to replace Love rather than coming here directly.

Sure, but that category is just as unlikely. Celtics can't trade the 3rd pick for Love and--wrong or right--the Knicks wouldn't accept anything less for Melo.

No way Melo, at his age, is worth the #3 pick. No way Love, with his current troubles and balky knees, is worth the #3 pick. Picks 16 and 23 and maybe a future C's pick to the Knicks should be sufficient to grease the wheels of that three way trade.

Yeah. If Love is having health issues, then his value and Melo's become comparable. The reason he was ahead of Melo was youth, but if he's breaking down, then that doesn't apply.

What's more -- if Love is having health issues, then Cleveland can dump him, admitting that the Wiggins trade was a fiasco, and still save face.

But would we want him on his current contract even as a free gift? That's hard to answer until we know just how bad the health issues are.

[Fencer reregistered]

Anyhow, if a traditionally poor defensive player has developed health issues likely to worsen his defense, his value seems pretty questionable.

[165bows]

If Conley leaves in FA where would he go? San Antonio, New York, Indiana, Cleveland, LA?

[ConstableGeneva]

If Conley leaves in FA where would he go? San Antonio, New York, Indiana, Cleveland, LA?

Danny drafts Kris Dunn then signs Mike Conley to a max contract. This board would be hilariously fun after that.

Maybe Milwaukee or Chicago if they can find takers for MCW and Rose? If he were a bit younger, I'd want to see him with Thibs and the Wolves.

EDIT: Probably not the Bulls. They'd want to prioritize replacing their frontcourt first. They'll be rebuilding without Butler anyway.

[165bows]

If Conley leaves in FA where would he go? San Antonio, New York, Indiana, Cleveland, LA?

Danny drafts Kris Dunn then signs Mike Conley to a max contract. This board would be hilariously fun after that.

Maybe Milwaukee or Chicago if they can find takers for MCW and Rose? If he were a bit younger, I'd want to see him with Thibs and the Wolves.

EDIT: Probably not the Bulls. They'd want to prioritize replacing their frontcourt first. They'll be rebuilding without Butler anyway.

Yeah Chicago seems particularly unattractive to FA right now. Just a lot of uncertainty there.

MIN and Milwaukee make some basketball sense. Spurs would be great since he would fill their salary space up.

[165bows]

I love Jimmy Butler but this is the best offseason:
Trade #3, KO, Hunter, Young for DeAndre Jordan
Sign Durant and Horford

If they unload the farm for Butler I don't see how they get good enough in the front court.

Possible trade partners for Jordan: Toronto for JV, Memphis for Marc Gasol, Atlanta for Millsap, NY for Lopez/Melo.

That team is super deep and versatile, can compete for titles, and still has 17+18 BRK picks, the '19 MEM pick and can pick up a couple of rookies later in the draft this year.

[redbeamer]

The trade to make is #3 and Bradley for Jimmy Butler. That is fair on both ends. The C's would have a log jam in the backcourt anyway and Avery can't seem to stay healthy for an entire season. I think Avery has peaked. Butler may have also but the peak is higher.

[ConstableGeneva]

I love Jimmy Butler but this is the best offseason:
Trade #3, KO, Hunter, Young for DeAndre Jordan
Sign Durant and Horford

If they unload the farm for Butler I don't see how they get good enough in the front court.

Possible trade partners for Jordan: Toronto for JV, Memphis for Marc Gasol, Atlanta for Milsapp, NY for Lopez/Melo.

I agree with the principle behind this. If Cs can add Durant in the offseason (still a longshot), they don't need a 3rd high-usage, high-volume scorer from the wing. Prioritize the use of assets on the frontcourt, particularly someone who could anchor the defense and on offense, could get freebie points via putbacks, rimruns, and finishing lobs (Steven Adams/Tristan Thompson role). Next priority would be to add/improve shooting (Butler isn't a particularly good shooter; this is why my preference would be Hayward if we're going after another wing who is more of a facilitator/playmaker/clutch scorer). Dudley, Marvin Williams, and Teletovic come to mind as bench shooters from 3/4 position. Casspi too if you can pry him from the Kings.

Is there any scenario where Celtics can become a contender next season without Durant and without emptying the cupboard particularly the 2017 and 2018 Nets picks? And not just a one-season wonder either (so no to stars past their primes).

[165bows]

I love Jimmy Butler but this is the best offseason:
Trade #3, KO, Hunter, Young for DeAndre Jordan
Sign Durant and Horford

If they unload the farm for Butler I don't see how they get good enough in the front court.

Possible trade partners for Jordan: Toronto for JV, Memphis for Marc Gasol, Atlanta for Milsapp, NY for Lopez/Melo.

I agree with the principle behind this. If Cs can add Durant in the offseason (still a longshot), they don't need a 3rd high-usage, high-volume scorer from the wing. Prioritize the use of assets on the frontcourt, particularly someone who could anchor the defense and on offense, could get freebie points via putbacks, rimruns, and finishing lobs (Steven Adams/Tristan Thompson role). Next priority would be to add/improve shooting (Butler isn't a particularly good shooter; this is why my preference would be Hayward if we're going after another wing who is more of a facilitator/playmaker/clutch scorer). Dudley, Marvin Williams, and Teletovic come to mind as bench shooters from 3/4 position. Casspi too if you can pry him from the Kings.

Is there any scenario where Celtics can become a contender next season without Durant and without emptying the cupboard particularly the 2017 and 2018 Nets picks? And not just a one-season wonder either (so no to stars past their primes).

Sign Horford and Dirk and hope the All-Star starting lineups get the chicken pox?

Thing is they need a legit front court rebounder/interior presence and a legit high end scorer. Problem is they got Thomas cheap (7th in points per minute last year), but what other scorer can they get that is a shooter, available, not hideously expensive, and preferably in the front court?

[ConstableGeneva]

I love Jimmy Butler but this is the best offseason:
Trade #3, KO, Hunter, Young for DeAndre Jordan
Sign Durant and Horford

If they unload the farm for Butler I don't see how they get good enough in the front court.

Possible trade partners for Jordan: Toronto for JV, Memphis for Marc Gasol, Atlanta for Milsapp, NY for Lopez/Melo.

I agree with the principle behind this. If Cs can add Durant in the offseason (still a longshot), they don't need a 3rd high-usage, high-volume scorer from the wing. Prioritize the use of assets on the frontcourt, particularly someone who could anchor the defense and on offense, could get freebie points via putbacks, rimruns, and finishing lobs (Steven Adams/Tristan Thompson role). Next priority would be to add/improve shooting (Butler isn't a particularly good shooter; this is why my preference would be Hayward if we're going after another wing who is more of a facilitator/playmaker/clutch scorer). Dudley, Marvin Williams, and Teletovic come to mind as bench shooters from 3/4 position. Casspi too if you can pry him from the Kings.

Is there any scenario where Celtics can become a contender next season without Durant and without emptying the cupboard particularly the 2017 and 2018 Nets picks? And not just a one-season wonder either (so no to stars past their primes).

Sign Horford and Dirk and hope the All-Star starting lineups get the chicken pox?

Thing is they need a legit front court rebounder/interior presence and a legit high end scorer. Problem is they got Thomas cheap (7th in points per minute last year), but what other scorer can they get that is a shooter, available, not hideously expensive, and preferably in the front court?

I got it! Jeff Whitey (rim protector) and Ryan Anderson (prolific scorer).

[TheRev72]

Sure, but that category is just as unlikely. Celtics can't trade the 3rd pick for Love and--wrong or right--the Knicks wouldn't accept anything less for Melo.

No way Melo, at his age, is worth the #3 pick. No way Love, with his current troubles and balky knees, is worth the #3 pick. Picks 16 and 23 and maybe a future C's pick to the Knicks should be sufficient to grease the wheels of that three way trade.

Yeah. If Love is having health issues, then his value and Melo's become comparable. The reason he was ahead of Melo was youth, but if he's breaking down, then that doesn't apply.

What's more -- if Love is having health issues, then Cleveland can dump him, admitting that the Wiggins trade was a fiasco, and still save face.

But would we want him on his current contract even as a free gift? That's hard to answer until we know just how bad the health issues are.

Part of me thinks Love's current diminished value makes him even more of an Ainge target. He certainly can (and has) played much better. He's certainly in a situation that's a bad fit. I'd expect Ainge to renew his "low-ball" offer reportedly made before the trade deadline. If Ainge can add Love by only giving up B and C assets (picks 16 and 23, etc.) and still preserve his A assets (pick 3, Marcus Smart, etc.) that just gives him more flexibility to improve the team even further. Imagine being able to add Love and still being able to get another "star" player (Butler?) with the #3. And still having free agent cap room on top of that. Would be amazing.

And I wouldn't underestimate the value of having as many "friends of Kevin Durant" (like Kevin Love) on the team as possible.