2016 Draft Thread Part 3 - Poll Update

[thamadkant]

Thon Maker has similar body and athleticism as Clint Capela, but can put the ball down and hit mid range...

I think he is worth the risk at picks 20 to 29.... would definitely invest on him and put him in the D-League for a season and on a strict bulk-up diet.

[Cactus Jack]

You don't know any of that because there's barely any footage of him available. No one but scouts that have seen him play and work out knows anything about this kid. It's clear you don't want him and that's totally fine, but stating this stuff as fact is kind of weird when we don't know one way or the other.

fine, i'm no real scout. i'm going off of the limited amount of film that i've seen.

as it happens, he hasn't played that many games yet. this only makes him more of a risk.

i'm trying to figure out why more people don't think he's as much of a risk as i do!

He's certainly a risk. I don't know if he's riskier than Chriss or Skal. Skal barely played and Chriss has a very hard time rebounding and fouling.

There are weaknesses with all the prospects.

Some others adamantly don't want to draft him, like Cactus Jack and Mr Miyagi. But not sure if Cactus Jack has our best interest at heart. He could be still upset about us knocking the Sonics out in 7 in 93 in the WCF.

Hit it on the head.

[8on]

fine, i'm no real scout. i'm going off of the limited amount of film that i've seen.

as it happens, he hasn't played that many games yet. this only makes him more of a risk.

i'm trying to figure out why more people don't think he's as much of a risk as i do!

He's certainly a risk. I don't know if he's riskier than Chriss or Skal. Skal barely played and Chriss has a very hard time rebounding and fouling.

There are weaknesses with all the prospects.

Some others adamantly don't want to draft him, like Cactus Jack and Mr Miyagi. But not sure if Cactus Jack has our best interest at heart. He could be still upset about us knocking the Sonics out in 7 in 93 in the WCF.

Hit it on the head.

Mr. Jack, you can have him.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Demetrius Jackson would also be an awesome get for us later in the draft if possible.

perhaps he has the potential to be bledsoe 2.0 I have to be honest in that I would want murray in order to make bledsoe and/or knight expendable.

I do really like bledsoe , But his injury history is getting quite cumbersome. I don't care for knight as much, and would prefer to find a way to move him and perhaps tucker and other assets for a potential high pick in 2017 if possible.

Ideally, I would have Murray run the point, move bledsoe to the two spot to build up his trade value, then move him for a comparable asset. And then run full out with murray and booker in the backcourt.

warren and bogdan at small forward.

Hopefully....Skal/or Ellenson/ or Maker at power forward.

And Len/ Chandler at center.

Our team would be supremely long/ highly skilled/ very fast and mobile. Athletic with a great blend of offensive firepower and defensive prowess. And the best part would be that we can go all out to try and make the playoffs with our new, young core as We would already have a couple of high lotto picks coming to us in 2017 from the proposed bledsoe and knight trades.

[thamadkant]

I have this fear... or rather... uncomfortable feeling.. that McD is going to sellect Marquese Chriss, if he doesnt trade the pick.

Don't get me wrong... if Chriss continue his development, gain more strength and polish his skills.... he could be a beasty PF/SF type.

[Cactus Jack]

He's certainly a risk. I don't know if he's riskier than Chriss or Skal. Skal barely played and Chriss has a very hard time rebounding and fouling.

There are weaknesses with all the prospects.

Some others adamantly don't want to draft him, like Cactus Jack and Mr Miyagi. But not sure if Cactus Jack has our best interest at heart. He could be still upset about us knocking the Sonics out in 7 in 93 in the WCF.

Hit it on the head.

Mr. Jack, you can have him.

Who's him? Bender? I've been on record, as NOT a fan. Its Hield or Murray for me. Would also love Ellenson at 13.

[lilfishi22]

Thon Maker has similar body and athleticism as Clint Capela, but can put the ball down and hit mid range...

I think he is worth the risk at picks 20 to 29.... would definitely invest on him and put him in the D-League for a season and on a strict bulk-up diet.

I see him as a mid-late 20's pick based on skill/potential however I would not be surprised if a team looking to take a punt takes him in the 15-20 range. Most mock drafts projects him to be in that very late 1st, early 2nd range and I think that's about right. If he's there at #28, you take him and run.

[TASTIC]

I'd agree with your logic if the world was scheduled to end after this next season. But since that's hopefully not happening, it makes more sense to add talent than it does to simply fill a position. It's not like that position can't be addressed next year or the year after. And this is especially true with our 4th pick because none of them look to be PF's that can step in and fill the position right away, these guys all seem to be projects. If the front office believes it has clearly determined the best player, that has to be our pick IMO.

Got it. Can you then please tell me who we play at PF this season? That's the question not a single person has answered for me. You tell me who we start at PF, and I'll be on the BPA train.

Len? Teletovic? Tucker? Dwight Powell? Terrence Jones? Domantas Sabonis? Are we in a 'title or bust' position next year? Hell, maybe it's Bender. Im not saying DONT draft a PF, especially if you (Suns FO) thinks they are BPA. My comment simply has to do with acquiring somebody who is good, who happens to be the same 'position' as somebody we already have. I would apply the same logic to free agency or trades.

But that is literally exactly what went wrong when we signed Thomas.

We won 48 games with a dual PG lineup and -- I'm not going to go over it again, but needless to say the Thomas signing was horrible for chemistry and fit.

So I do see the 'BPA' angle and I'm not anti it, but there needs to be a contingency in place IF the BPA is Dunn or Murray or Hield (I don't personally think any of those 3 will be). Essentially if we're taking a SG - I don't want Booker shifting to the 3. Sure, he CAN and has played there for stretches, but he is a pure SG with perfect size for there. He also needs shots and to handle the ball, basically exactly what Murray and Hield need. But then you have Bledsoe (assuming Knight is dealt, who can also shoot and IS our PG.

Nothing wrong with overlapping skillsets, but these guys aren't Iguodala ready to seamlessly go into the starting 5, nor are they Crawford who knows and accepts his role as scoring 6th man.

Younger players rarely have that attitude, despite what they say in interviews about wanting to do whatever it takes and play whatever role.

See Thomas - ALWAYS envisions himself as a starter.

Knight - literally a few weeks back he vehemently states nothing will change next season and he is a starting guard. Despite him being likely a weapon in that 2nd unit and being able to run it rather than play second fiddle to Bledsoe in the first in terms of ball handling.

If these overlapping guys were clearly upgrades or crazy talented, I'd be all for BPA - but none of these guards scream 'draft me even though you have PG/SG covered'.

[dremill24]

I think you are comparing those two guys to perennial All-Stars so we might need to slow it down a bit. I have trumpeted Skal for quite some time, but I am pretty sure his stock has risen to the 8-10 range.

Re: Thon though, skilled is not a word I would use to describe him just yet. Long, mobile, and aggressive? Probably. But if we are saying Bender is 2 years away I don't know how far away that suggests Thon is.

Carey, I hear you on the fact that they are far removed from that prestigious company currently. And I know it is equally important to temper expectations.

But I for my part can see them reaching that level ...IF....they fall into the right situations. To some degree, All rookies are projects to be hopefully developed into a highly productive talent to their respective teams.

I do strongly believe that each player of the three has that "it" factor to become great.

For instance, In regards to murray, It is his confidence, and poise that will set him apart from his peers.

For Skal, It is his immense skill and fluidity for a 7 footer, along with with his very adept defensive prowess. That is a rare combination for a big man to have the total package on both ends. His only knock was whether or not he would be deemed a soft player. But upon review, He seems completely assertive and aggressive in the post.

Now I think that he AND bender are quite similiar in most ways, But I just see Skal as a more polished player in the post/ as well as defensively.

And finally... For Maker..... I See his versatility, fluidity, mobility, and non stop motor makes him very intriguing prospect, rim runner and defensive presence.


He can run the court, shoot, play defense , play above the rim, and is tenacious. all the factors that contribute to a high level starter .....Or perhaps even more(Given the right situation) and playing time.

A real steal at #28. And don't get me wrong....I love me some bender, Heck, I am even intrigued by ellensons skill and size.


But IF.... We miss out on Skal by #13 , I would totally choose Maker or even Ellenson. Just to make sure we get that high level talented Big man prospect.

Remember guys... Both Skal and Maker were listed as possible #1 prospects based on their skill, size, and versatility.

When was Maker ever listed as a possible number one pick

When he got YouTube famous duh!

[TASTIC]

I'd definitely take a flyer on Maker at 28 or 34, but doubt he lasts much past 20.

He is SO THIN...25lb less than Capela, also very different skillset than other guys his size.

I worry about his position - too slow for SF, too light for PF? If he could put on 20-30lb and keep the ball handling/jumper and mobility then he could be really special.

If there was ever an advertisement to play 2-3-4yr in College, it'll probably be him.

[lilfishi22]

I see some similarities between Anthony Randolph and Thon Maker. Both had the skills of a guard in a big man body (AR had supposedly grown to being 7" a few years into his NBA career) but I think the difference is that Maker is now playing in an era where skilled big men with a jumper and handle the ball is all the rage now. If there was a time in the history of the NBA where non-traditional PF's/C's like Maker and Bender could be an impact, it is now.

[8on]

i really liked Anthony Randolph. i thought he was going to be special.

[lilfishi22]

i really liked Anthony Randolph. i thought he was going to be special.

Likewise. It was a bit of a sad situation with him. Just as he was about to come out of his shell, he was traded and never found sure footing and consistent minutes anywhere else. The guy was so talented, could do almost everything but nobody seemed to want to give him the developmental minutes he needed. There's questions about his work ethic but I never read that deeply into the reason why he couldn't find a role in the NBA.

[jredsaz]

so it looks like most people here want Bender.

uhhh.....why? can somebody tell me what they like about him?

#hield #ellenson #maybechriss #notbender

Smart, skilled, multifaceted, athletic, basically the potential to be a very good modern NBA player.

[dremill24]

Got it. Can you then please tell me who we play at PF this season? That's the question not a single person has answered for me. You tell me who we start at PF, and I'll be on the BPA train.

Len? Teletovic? Tucker? Dwight Powell? Terrence Jones? Domantas Sabonis? Are we in a 'title or bust' position next year? Hell, maybe it's Bender. Im not saying DONT draft a PF, especially if you (Suns FO) thinks they are BPA. My comment simply has to do with acquiring somebody who is good, who happens to be the same 'position' as somebody we already have. I would apply the same logic to free agency or trades.

But that is literally exactly what went wrong when we signed Thomas.

We won 48 games with a dual PG lineup and -- I'm not going to go over it again, but needless to say the Thomas signing was horrible for chemistry and fit.

So I do see the 'BPA' angle and I'm not anti it, but there needs to be a contingency in place IF the BPA is Dunn or Murray or Hield (I don't personally think any of those 3 will be). Essentially if we're taking a SG - I don't want Booker shifting to the 3. Sure, he CAN and has played there for stretches, but he is a pure SG with perfect size for there. He also needs shots and to handle the ball, basically exactly what Murray and Hield need. But then you have Bledsoe (assuming Knight is dealt, who can also shoot and IS our PG.

Nothing wrong with overlapping skillsets, but these guys aren't Iguodala ready to seamlessly go into the starting 5, nor are they Crawford who knows and accepts his role as scoring 6th man.

Younger players rarely have that attitude, despite what they say in interviews about wanting to do whatever it takes and play whatever role.

See Thomas - ALWAYS envisions himself as a starter.

Knight - literally a few weeks back he vehemently states nothing will change next season and he is a starting guard. Despite him being likely a weapon in that 2nd unit and being able to run it rather than play second fiddle to Bledsoe in the first in terms of ball handling.

If these overlapping guys were clearly upgrades or crazy talented, I'd be all for BPA - but none of these guards scream 'draft me even though you have PG/SG covered'.

It's a little more difficult with PGs and Cs, yes. I offered a little more clarity in a later post that my biggest concern with it is when we're taking about wings, who are very interchangeable and have more minutes available to them. But of course there will always be special exceptions.

Sure, the IT signing was bad in hindsight, but so are 'smart' moves when you're dealing with players who are gonna act like crybabies. If you're committed to the 2 PG lineup (right or wrong), the 3 of them could have worked out just fine..

[bwgood77]

I have this fear... or rather... uncomfortable feeling.. that McD is going to sellect Marquese Chriss, if he doesnt trade the pick.

Don't get me wrong... if Chriss continue his development, gain more strength and polish his skills.... he could be a beasty PF/SF type.

Why, I forgot, who do you want if we don't package the pick in a trade?

[TASTIC]

I'd only be ok trading the pick if we landed a legit, quality NBA starter/hopefully star who was the 'right' age for our core and didn't stunt the growth of Booker.

Although I love Millsap I don't think he's enough to put us firmly in the legitimate top 4 teams in the West so there's no point in including him. Ditto for Melo - though I don't overly like him as a player or as a leader.

Jimmy Butler - ideal starting SF for us and I love the Bledsoe/Butler/Tucker defensive potential to close out games.

Derrick Favors - love his post defence and his offensive game is improving too. Ideally you'd have a PF with more range next to Len but I could see a Mirza/Favors combo doing well.

Jahlil Okafor - only if Bender wasn't there. I was initially an Okafor naysayer but he would actually be an ideal fit next to Len and be the perfect floor-spreader on the block for Booker. Not to mention he's a decent rebounder and shot-blocker and he's got 20-10-1.5 upside. I'd try and expand it and include Knight and PHI include Covington - love his contract, 3pt shooting and ability to play 2-3-4.

Paul George - pipe dream, he's not going anywhere, but I'd include Knight and Warren to get him along with #4.

Aaron Gordon - this is an interesting one but I can't see ORL giving him up so soon. But he's only 20 and I would give #4 up for him without hesitation.

Nikola Jokic - he might be able to play PF next to Len and if you haven't seen him play watch him, he's a handful in the post and is such a smart player. Doubt DEN move him as he's only 20.

Serge Ibaka - I'm on the fence with him. I don't like his declining stats but he'd be a perfect fit at the PF spot.

[carey]

......his moves to the basket doesn't seem strong. he doesn't have the girth to be able to defend stronger power forwards. his shot form seems awkward and cumbersome. these defenders don't seem to have a clue.

I don't' want to be that guy, but... he is 18! He won't even be 19 until after the season starts. It's basically like taking a high school player. He's the youngest player in the draft. Set your expectations accordingly.

[8on]

......his moves to the basket doesn't seem strong. he doesn't have the girth to be able to defend stronger power forwards. his shot form seems awkward and cumbersome. these defenders don't seem to have a clue.

I don't' want to be that guy, but... he is 18! He won't even be 19 until after the season starts. It's basically like taking a high school player. He's the youngest player in the draft. Set your expectations accordingly.

i can do that, but Ellenson and Chriss have more offensively. both, i'm pretty sure, are 18 or 19. Ellenson already has a repertoire within 15 feet, and Chriss can take it over the top like nobody's business. Bender has......close to nothing on the offensive end that i've seen. Porzingis, by comparison, could put the ball in the basket. it was evident to me in videos, and now it's evident to everyone.

just because Bender seems like the next Porzingis because they're both from one of the other 6 continents, does not mean he is the next Porzingis.

[8on]

......his moves to the basket doesn't seem strong. he doesn't have the girth to be able to defend stronger power forwards. his shot form seems awkward and cumbersome. these defenders don't seem to have a clue.

I don't' want to be that guy, but... he is 18! He won't even be 19 until after the season starts. It's basically like taking a high school player. He's the youngest player in the draft. Set your expectations accordingly.

go ahead. be that guy. if other people don't like it, that's their problem!