'15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[HeartBreakKid]

I'm not skeptical, he took GSW's offense to a higher level. But you're claiming he's doing something amazing with rotations and players when honestly he's doing exactly what anyone here would have done and for not openly being in a panic to the media, which no good coach ever does. I'm honestly more amazed you're giving credit for really basic stuff that I'd expect out of an average to poor coach.

He's worthy of some praise, just not for what you're saying.

And I'm not really sure what I replied to w/ JB was wrong, he is better than those 2, and employed.

You have to give credit to Kerr for the rotations. He benched Iguodala for Barnes. He started Green over Lee. He played the death lineup. He made all of those decisions and they have worked.

I dont think there would be a very big difference if Iggy started and Barnes came off the bench, they would get #1 seed pretty much regardless.

What is the deathline up really? It's 4 smalls with 1 big at the 5, every team in the league does this except for like 5 other teams.

David Lee got injured, which is why Green took over...


He gets a lot of credit for having a top tier team, I mean we've literally never seen Steve Kerr with anything less than the most stacked team in the NBA, extra emphasis on the word literally.

[Doctor MJ]

This isn't to say that I'm insistent that Curry is absolutely at his peak self - I'm frankly trying to avoid conversations about injuries here because in the end all of these guys are dealing with ailments and we don't know how bad each is, and I don't want to be making excuses - but if you were to tell me before the series started that Cleveland was going to focus on making guys other than Curry beat them, and that as a result Curry would still score better than anyone else on his team and well by all sane standards but that he'd see a dropoff but the rest of the team would thrive in the face of a defensive strategy not geared toward them and the overall ORtg would be in the ballpark of what you'd expect before focusing on strategy, none of that would really surprise me.

Let's break down that statement into parts:

1) Cavs focusing on letting other guys beat them
2) Curry still scores better than anyone else on his team
3) Curry has a drop-off
4) Rest of the team thrives in the face of a defensive strategy not geared towards them
5) Overall ORTG in the ball park of what you'd expect

What I would like to know is which points below do you disagree with:

- 1 has been happening all year, and yet 2 still happens
- His margin isn't as big over the others though, compared to the RS: why? Bear in mind: the Cavs are only +2 better than league average D - do you expect him to drop ~8 pts and ~6 TS (my math, memory, or both might be mistaken) given that he has such a matchup advantage vs. Kyrie? And if they're selling out so hard to stop him, why isn't everyone else overperforming?
- 4 and 5 are true, to an extent, but their ORTG's down by 4.5-6 (b-ref/NBAstats), and their NetRtg over the Cavs (+5-6 in the RS) is down to +3 now.

It's the first two bullets that are puzzling: if something's happened over a greater sample (albeit against slightly better competition), and the drop-off in both 3 and 4/5 is way more than you'd expect from the increase in competition, then it demands inquiry into why this is so, yes?

It's not like it's a button though where you simply say "Make other guys beat us". If you really wanted to keep Curry from doing this at all costs you'd put all 5 of your guys on him. Obviously no one's going to do that so every team that tries to do this has to decide precisely how far they'll go. I see nothing strange about saying that the Cavs are doing this further than teams typically did in the regular season. Rather, to me that's a pretty standard thing to consider.

[ceiling raiser]

So, what has to happen tomorrow in order for CLE to take the series to 7?

[colts18]

So, what has to happen tomorrow in order for CLE to take the series to 7?

It's a complicated formula.

Cleveland's FGx2+3P+FT > GSW's FGx2+3P+FT

[lorak]

So, what has to happen tomorrow in order for CLE to take the series to 7?

I doubt Irving would be so hot again, so Cavs have to play very good defense, avoid miscommunication - what happened too often in previous games.

[HeartBreakKid]

JR Smith is due for a good game, no? Maybe he'll catch fire tomorrow.

[RSCD3_]

JR Smith is due for a good game, no? Maybe he'll catch fire tomorrow.

Maybe kevin love can chip in with a well needed 13/6.

[E-Balla]

Defensive FG% in the finals (difference from normal FG% defended players shot):

Curry 12.2 DFG, 45,9% (0.0)
Irving 14.6 DFG, 60.3% (+11.2)

So you can discredit data whatever way you want but evidence here is overwhelming.

If I'm not mistaken Irving scored just 7 pts vs Curry in G5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qg4B9R8K0c
Defense on that one 3p might be not so good, but on these 2p shots Curry was as good as Klay: 3:40; 4:18 I can't belive you really said that Curry is not contesting shots...

PS
And it was different series, but you don't suddenly became bad defender in one or two weeks (Curry's DFG% was 43.3 [-3.1]):

He didn't just become a bad defender but he's always been above average at best so when he's not giving effort he's not good.

Now my statement wasn't about game 5 because Kerr noticed Steph getting burnt bad in game 3 and put him on JR the last 2 games (JR has responded by blowing multiple easy looks so I think Kerr made the smart choice). In games 1 and 3 though Steph really got burnt by Kyrie and they capitalized on it.

Now in the last games he's been guarding JR and like I said JR is missing some pretty easy buckets. Being JR Smith you expect that but some of these misses have been on amazingly easy attempts.

[JLei]

I'll put this here for who hasn't listened to the latest Lowe Post with JVG and Zach Lowe. In response to can Draymond win Finals MVP question from Lowe, JVG said this.

JVG: Listen Lebron James was the MVP last year in the Finals, he's the MVP this year in the Finals and I can't even fathom, and I don't know if you voted last year...
Lowe: I did. (Both voted for Bron) FYI
JVG: I can not even fathom how anyone voted any differently, it's obvious by the numbers, the numbers are so compelling that you have to go against the numbers, you have to say the numbers are lying and then when you go with the eye test you see the same thing. So if I were to say to you in a playoff series that a guy lead the series in well 2nd in points, shot nearly 50%, lead the series in rebounds, blocks, steals, assists but he's not the MVP you'd say are you kidding me let's go look at the tape. And if you see the tape it's OBVIOUS. But were going to do the unobvious and vote somebody else. And so there is nobody else in contention. There wasn't last year, there isn't this year, it's obvious who the best player is, the most valuable player and were going to go against that just because his team loses.

After Lowe rants about Draymond should be disqualified from Finals MVP consideration due to suspension.

JVG: How can anybody. Tell me a rationale for voting for anyone then Lebron James. Unless you are saying the award is only for the winning team's MVP (which goes on to say last year it was Curry for the Warriors).

2 people's opinions I respect the most in the basketball media.

[lorak]

[
He didn't just become a bad defender but he's always been above average at best so when he's not giving effort he's not good.

Now my statement wasn't about game 5 because Kerr noticed Steph getting burnt bad in game 3 and put him on JR the last 2 games (JR has responded by blowing multiple easy looks so I think Kerr made the smart choice). In games 1 and 3 though Steph really got burnt by Kyrie and they capitalized on it.

Now in the last games he's been guarding JR and like I said JR is missing some pretty easy buckets. Being JR Smith you expect that but some of these misses have been on amazingly easy attempts.

http://stats.nba.com/articles/#!/sportvu-game-6-preview-2016-nba-finals/

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vs. Kyrie Irving
Defense   Matchup
Time   FGM-FGA   EFG%   Fouls   Steals
Klay Thompson   24:42   12-20 (60%)   67.5%   4   1
Stephen Curry   16:42   11-23 (47.8%)   50%   4   2
Draymond Green   5:07   6-16 (37.5%)   40.6%   0   1

[therealbig3]

IDK, I saw Curry contest pretty well. Irving was just making shots that you couldn't do anything about.

[kayess]

This isn't to say that I'm insistent that Curry is absolutely at his peak self - I'm frankly trying to avoid conversations about injuries here because in the end all of these guys are dealing with ailments and we don't know how bad each is, and I don't want to be making excuses - but if you were to tell me before the series started that Cleveland was going to focus on making guys other than Curry beat them, and that as a result Curry would still score better than anyone else on his team and well by all sane standards but that he'd see a dropoff but the rest of the team would thrive in the face of a defensive strategy not geared toward them and the overall ORtg would be in the ballpark of what you'd expect before focusing on strategy, none of that would really surprise me.

Let's break down that statement into parts:

1) Cavs focusing on letting other guys beat them
2) Curry still scores better than anyone else on his team
3) Curry has a drop-off
4) Rest of the team thrives in the face of a defensive strategy not geared towards them
5) Overall ORTG in the ball park of what you'd expect

What I would like to know is which points below do you disagree with:

- 1 has been happening all year, and yet 2 still happens
- His margin isn't as big over the others though, compared to the RS: why? Bear in mind: the Cavs are only +2 better than league average D - do you expect him to drop ~8 pts and ~6 TS (my math, memory, or both might be mistaken) given that he has such a matchup advantage vs. Kyrie? And if they're selling out so hard to stop him, why isn't everyone else overperforming?
- 4 and 5 are true, to an extent, but their ORTG's down by 4.5-6 (b-ref/NBAstats), and their NetRtg over the Cavs (+5-6 in the RS) is down to +3 now.

It's the first two bullets that are puzzling: if something's happened over a greater sample (albeit against slightly better competition), and the drop-off in both 3 and 4/5 is way more than you'd expect from the increase in competition, then it demands inquiry into why this is so, yes?

It's not like it's a button though where you simply say "Make other guys beat us". If you really wanted to keep Curry from doing this at all costs you'd put all 5 of your guys on him. Obviously no one's going to do that so every team that tries to do this has to decide precisely how far they'll go. I see nothing strange about saying that the Cavs are doing this further than teams typically did in the regular season. Rather, to me that's a pretty standard thing to consider.

I'd really have to check the numbers to say for sure if the Cavs are taking it further than teams in the RS - I mean don't get me wrong, that'd be my default assumption - but I'd expect the rest of the team to be WAAAAY better if that were the case (and they HAVE been getting quality looks, tbf - just missing them. Same with Curry to an extent)

[ElGee]

So, what has to happen tomorrow in order for CLE to take the series to 7?

A continuation of the same offensive and defensive strategy. Let it be known, that whatever happens, the defensive first quarter of Game 6 was a near masterpiece, and that Golden State's 3 best shots of the entire quarter were 2 Barnes open 3's and a Green layup. Incredible work.

[kayess]

So, what has to happen tomorrow in order for CLE to take the series to 7?

A continuation of the same offensive and defensive strategy. Let it be known, that whatever happens, the defensive first quarter of Game 6 was a near masterpiece, and that Golden State's 3 best shots of the entire quarter were 2 Barnes open 3's and a Green layup. Incredible work.

First time in the series that I really thought they executed to near perfection. There's also an Ezeli layup somewhere there (or was that the 2nd quarter)

[kayess]

How about Thomspon's defense??

[JordansBulls]

Would Game 7 draw better ratings than LA vs Boston Game 7?

Spoiler:

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Net.    Year    Game 1    Game 2    Game 3    Game 4    Game 5    Game 6    Game 7
NBC    1991    12.6/--    16.1/29    15.7/31    15.2/30    19.7/36    None    None
NBC    1992    13.5/25    13.7/26    13.6/26    16.0/29    13.9/28    14.7/29    None
NBC    1993    16.8/29    14.6/29    17.2/32    19.8/35    19.0/36    20.3/39    None
NBC    1994    12.6/23    10.7/21    12.4/24    12.9/23    7.8/14    11.3/24    17.9/31
NBC    1995    14.7/26    12.0/23    14.1/25    14.9/26    None    None    None
NBC    1996    16.8/31    13.9/27    15.8/28    18.1/33    17.2/33    18.8/35    None
NBC    1997    15.8/27    15.1/27    14.2/27    16.9/30    20.1/35    18.5/35    None
NBC    1998    18.0/32    16.6/31    16.2/28    19.1/33    19.8/37    22.3/38    None
NBC    1999    11.5/20    9.6/19    12.1/21    12.0/22    11.0/22    None
NBC    2000    10.5/18    9.9/20    10.9/19    13.1/24    10.0/20    14.7/26    None
NBC    2001    12.4/23    11.7/22    12.7/23    12.6/23    11.2/22    None
NBC    2002    10.6/20    9.1/18    10.2/18    10.8/19    None
ABC    2003    6.4/11    5.2/10    7.0/12    6.6/12    6.2/12    7.5/14    None
ABC    2004    9.8/17    10.7/19    10.5/19    12.7/22    13.8/23    None
ABC    2005    7.2/13    6.9/12    7.2/13    7.2/13    8.4/15    8.8/15    11.9/22
ABC    2006    7.8/14    8.0/14    8.0/14    7.8/14    9.0/17    10.1/18    None
ABC    2007    6.3/11    5.6/10    6.4/11    6.5/12    None
ABC    2008    8.7/16    8.5/15    9.2/16    8.7/16    10.2/19    10.7/19    None
ABC    2009    7.8/14    8.2/14    8.6/15    9.4/17    8.0/14    None
ABC    2010    8.6/14    9.2/15    9.6/16    9.9/18    10.8/18    10.4/18    15.6/27
ABC    2011    9.0/15    9.3/15    9.1/15    9.6/16    10.8/18    13.3/23    None
ABC    2012    9.9/16    10.4/17    8.8/16    10.5/18    10.9/18    None    None
ABC    2013    8.8/14    8.5/15    8.5/14    10.0/16    9.5/16    12.3/21    15.3/26
ABC    2014    9.0/15    9.0/15    9.0/15    9.3/15    10.3/18    None    None
ABC    2015    10.6/20    10.5/19    11.1/20    11.7/21    11.8/21    13.4/24    None
ABC    2016    11.1/20    9.8/18    9.7/16    9.7/16    11.8/21    TBD    None

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Rating    Game    Playoff/Date
15.6/27    Boston Celtics vs Los Angeles Lakers    Game 7, 2010 NBA Finals
15.3/26    San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat    Game 7, 2013 NBA Finals
13.8/23    Los Angeles Lakers vs. Detroit Pistons    Game 5, 2004 NBA Finals
13.4/24    Golden State Warriors vs. Cleveland Cavaliers    Game 6, 2015 NBA Finals
13.3/23    Dallas Mavericks vs. Miami Heat    Game 6, 2011 NBA Finals
12.7/22    Los Angeles Lakers vs. Detroit Pistons    Game 4, 2004 NBA Finals
12.3/21    San Antonio Spurs vs. Miami Heat    Game 6, 2013 NBA Finals
11.9/22    Detroit Pistons vs. San Antonio Spurs    Game 7, 2005 NBA Finals
11.8/21    Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden State Warriors    Game 5, 2015 NBA Finals
11.8/21    Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden State Warriors    Game 5, 2016 NBA Finals
11.7/21    Golden State Warriors vs. Cleveland Cavaliers    Game 4, 2015 NBA Finals
11.1/20    Golden State Warriors vs. Cleveland Cavaliers    Game 3, 2015 NBA Finals
11.1/20    Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden State Warriors    Game 1, 2016 NBA Finals
10.9/18    Oklahoma City Thunder vs. Miami Heat    Game 5, 2012 NBA Finals
10.8/18    Los Angeles Lakers vs. Boston Celtics    Game 5, 2010 NBA Finals

[colts18]

Is anyone here considering putting LeBron at #1 for the season? With the decline of Curry and Green, he is in the driver position for the #1 spot.

[JordansBulls]

The Lakers were the last team to go 7 in the Conference Finals and NBA Finals which was 1988 and win it all. I hope this ends any notion of the Warriors in the top 5 or even 10 teams alltime now having to go 7 in back to back series and still avoided the Clippers and Spurs as well.

[Texas Chuck]

that's a terrible way to get yourself eliminated from a game you can still win, Steph. And the little temper tantrum....

[JordansBulls]

Is anyone here considering putting LeBron at #1 for the season? With the decline of Curry and Green, he is in the driver position for the #1 spot.

Really would depend on how close game 7 is.