2016 Draft Thread Part 3 - Poll Update

[Waylay13]

Those rumors of Book playing some small forward, makes a lot of sense.

No it doesnt as Booker lacks both the size and muscles mass to defend against most the small forwards in the NBA. So trying to play Booker at small forward or point guard will only get him (our best player) in foul trouble.

Book supposedly growing still, now at 6'7"...that's definitely SF size with some extra muscle

Yes if he added 20 to 30 lbs he might be able to guard some of the small forwards but since he doesnt have that mass at this point it isnt even worth talking about.

[gaspar]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/743886516519342084[/tweet]

[carey]

Taking a player just to trade him unless the trade was made prior to selection never ever works out. Someone at BSotS suggested that we do that with Dunn and hold him ransom. Not a great idea.

[bwgood77]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/16/pbts-2016-nba-draft-prospect-preview-jamal-murray/

That jumper, man.

It’s something else.

When he gets in a rhythm, it’s over. He can make five or six threes in a row. He made at least four threes in 13 games this season — including four games where he made at least six threes — and he became just the second freshman in college basketball history to make 113 threes in a season. The other guy to do that? Curry, Stephen. [...]

But he’s not just a shooter, either.

Murray can handle the ball. He’s capable of attacking close outs, he can operate in the pick-and-roll, he can lead the break and he’s a willing and capable passer. There’s a difference between being a score-first player and a selfish player, and Murray is most definitely the former. [...]

Overall, Murray has pretty impressive basketball IQ.

Defensively, he has some physical limitations, but he plays hard on that end of the floor. He doesn’t quit on plays when he gets beat and he has pretty good anticipation in passing lanes. He’ll go to the offensive glass as well. [...]

Yeah, have no idea how anyone can want Hield over him. Hield has a chance to make as much of an impact off the bat, but in the long run, Murray will almost certainly be the better player.

[Cactus Jack]

There are three huge Hield fans here posting over and over and over about him so it might seem like he has gained more support, but that's doubtful.

[JMac1]

I think about the best case scenario is that Dunn in a few years becomes as good as Bledsoe. That is likely best case. He could end up being better, but he is a turnover machine who isn't a good shooter. And of course he could be a lot worse. Bledsoe ranked in about the top 25 players in the league overall. It's tough to get that good.

This is called the simple rating, but it's pretty all encompassing, and if you look at all the players on it, it looks pretty close to reality.

http://www.82games.com/1516/ROLRTG8.HTM

You can also see the Suns also only had three other players who came out as positive impact, but those three were barely above 0.

Dunn is a taller Bledsoe and Knight hybrid. He has Knight handles and Bledsoe athleticism and length and both streaky shooting, although both Bled and Knight are 80% plus Free Throw shooters.

And that's what scares me about Dunn--at least being the 4th overall pick. 'They' say that shooting is one of the easiest thing to fix, so if that is indeed true, then maybe he becomes an 80% FT shooter. But if teams know he's a 2/3 (67-69%) FT shooter, I think that is a concern. Then with his TOs; he takes too many chances--tries to make passes few others can make. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Then his relative drop in assist rate this past season, coupled with his increase in 3PT attempts, does that mean he's becoming more 'ball dominant'? With his %s, I hope not.

I'm really not a Dunn hater; I just don't like him at 4th overall...then again, I don't like a lot of prospects 4th overall in this draft, either, so again, I'll defer to McD's judgment, but my PERSONAL ranking preference position-wise would be a PF, SF, C, PG, SG.

My biggest concern and why I don't like him next to Booker vs Murray or Hield, those guys are going to shoot or drive immediately, not Kyrie/Brandon Knight ball pounding over and over. That is how Klay and Curry work together. Klay hardly ever holds the ball for more than a few dribbles and he never tries to play make. he gets it and either shoots or passes, and that's what we need be it Bender or Murray or Hield (Chriss is a offensive level or two below those guys).

[bwgood77]

So listening to 'Burns and Gambo' Podcast from yesterday, and Gambo checked, Dunn is still refusing to release medical records to Suns or Celtics, so all this "I'll play for blah,blah," and "it was all rumor" is simply a PR move. Bottom line, he is still trying to manipulate the draft process. And sorry, that bothers me. The last thing we need is another disgruntled player on this roster. If McD feels Dunn is 'our guy', then he's making a mistake, IMO.

I get it; he's a competitor and he wants to play sooner rather than later. I say then, fine, be a competitor and BEAT OUT your competition, instead of worrying about fit. That's what GMs get paid for, and if they think Dunn is the best fit, then McD will likely have a plan to make it work...it might be a bad plan, but we won't know until after the fact, like the IT debacle.

I'm sorry, but Dunn should not receive an preferential treatment over any other prospect. Look...NOBODY wants to play for the Suns right now, because we stink. What better way to become an 'instant hero' than to go to a roster and turn it around in a year or two. Look at how we are all excited about Booker. Did he win us games last year?? Maybe one or two, but he played at a higher level than expected, and thus, has given this team's fans new hope. Quit trying to manipulate a process as a prospect. Again, I know I'm going a little, as they say, 'high and right' with my opinion, but to me, it's poor form and it's something I've never liked about draft prospects from any sport that does this junk (Eli Manning, etc.).

And while I'm being 'petty', I almost hope the Wolves and Pelicans pass on him, and he goes to the Bucks or Raptors at 9 or 10. Again, I understand I'm being 'petty', but this type of attitude is what really irks me...the "I'm know better, so I'm going to 'choose' where I play next season." Well, I hope he gets taken by Boston at 3, or another team loaded with PGs. It just reeks of 'superiority complex'.

And hen, he was asked why h hasn't done workouts, and someone else (presumably an agent or something, they don't know because it was a phone interview) chimed in and said -- "We will not be answering questions about workouts."

http://arizonasports.com/player/?a=322579

Starts arounf minute 23 or 24...

OK, I'll get off my soap box...

Well it doesn't look like anyone wants him according to the poll, so hopefully McD doesn't either.

[JMac1]

Well how fast do you think Buddy will be able to compete at the NBA at a high level, if he ever is able to do that? Even as good as Booker was, he still was far below an average nba player (though still among the best rookies) from an advanced statistical view, and only shot 34% from 3, which is his specialty. The point is, even the BEST rookies don't make team's sudden playoff teams. Towns had one of the best rookie seasons ever, and LaVine really came along as did Wiggins, the most highly touted prospect in a while. The truth is, only one player on our team graded out as substantially above average last year, and that was Bledsoe. The others that ratings put slightly above average (though still right around average) were Warren, Telly and Leuer.

http://www.82games.com/1516/ROLRTG8.HTM

I think Buddy with Bledsoe and Booker would get a TON of open looks and knock them down. I expect Buddy to be a better JJ Reddick but less than Klay overall but just as good as an open shooter.

Courtney Lee was a rookie with Orlando. Rookies can make a significant impact if they are not the central focus of the team.

Booker and Buddy on the wings shooting open threes would have teams scrambling........from game one.


I like Dunn as do Frank, but shooting is more explosive than driving and posting-up in today's game. Again, that's why I prefer Bender to Chriss as well.

So you think Buddy would be not just better than Reddick and just as good as a shooter as Klay were as rookies, but expect Buddy to be better immediately than Reddick is now and as good as Klay is shooting right off the bat?

I expect what Kobe expects.

[JMac1]

I seriously doubt that would happen. Those rumors of Book playing some small forward, makes a lot of sense.

I do too, just need it to be the 23rd already so we can all stop speculating lol. Booker would get dominated on the defensive end by small forwards, just because he grew an inch and can play some SF doesn't mean he should, at least not right now.

Nutshelled

I would despise the efforts from whomever to play Booker at SF. (and TJ at PF) Its the same sh#t they tried to do with Dragic.... pretending its some form of advanced strategy when really they are masking the incongruent roster structure. Do not compromise players' abilities/growth for the sake of GMs mistakes. BuddyH is not needed. Dunn is not needed. Murray not needed...unless of course, Knight or Bled or Both are on the move.

If Buddy shooting translate, he is most desperately needed. Shooting transcends everything today. I like Bender a lot, but if you believe Buddy is the player he was at OU, then why would you not pick him? Just because we don't have KG at PF? Cleveland has TT at PF. It depends on the make up of your team. Some of you guys act as if we have to have a stud at every position, thus we are set in the backcourt and no one could be better.

Bender and Chriss becoming studs is not a forgone conclusion

Why would you despise trying something?

[WeekapaugGroove]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/743886516519342084[/tweet]

I take everything that's said this week with a grain of salt but there's some interesting tidbits in there. He seems to think the suns aren't considering Murray or buddy.

If you belive the media it's sure looking like it's going to come down to chriss or bender.

[Waylay13]

I expect what Kobe expects.

Yea and a lot of people expected that Jimmer Fredette would be a player in the NBA because he could shot so well. Well I guess being All NBA D-League second is something to brag about.

[bwgood77]

I do too, just need it to be the 23rd already so we can all stop speculating lol. Booker would get dominated on the defensive end by small forwards, just because he grew an inch and can play some SF doesn't mean he should, at least not right now.

Nutshelled

I would despise the efforts from whomever to play Booker at SF. (and TJ at PF) Its the same sh#t they tried to do with Dragic.... pretending its some form of advanced strategy when really they are masking the incongruent roster structure. Do not compromise players' abilities/growth for the sake of GMs mistakes. BuddyH is not needed. Dunn is not needed. Murray not needed...unless of course, Knight or Bled or Both are on the move.

If Buddy shooting translate, he is most desperately needed. Shooting transcends everything today. I like Bender a lot, but if you believe Buddy is the player he was at OU, then why would you not pick him? Just because we don't have KG at PF? Cleveland has TT at PF. It depends on the make up of your team. Some of you guys act as if we have to have a stud at every position, thus we are set in the backcourt and no one could be better.

Bender and Chriss becoming studs is not a forgone conclusion

Why would you despise trying something?

Buddy being a stud is not a foregone conclusion either. Far from it. I really like Buddy but you are going WAY overboard here. It reminded me when I told a poster who was really high on Austin Rivers that you can't pencil a guy like that in as a starter because he won't be able to start for awhile, and if he did, he certainly wouldn't be an impact player. He responded along the lines of "yes, he should start immediately and will definitely be an impact player."

[WeekapaugGroove]

^^ exactly. It's FAR from a guarantee that buddy will even be a starter in the NBA. I do think his floor is a little higher than most prospects because it's hard to see him not being at least a heat check guy off the bench.

College success doesn't always translate to the pros. Especially guys who are super ball dominant, they can struggle when having to take on a lesser role.

[JMac1]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/16/pbts-2016-nba-draft-prospect-preview-jamal-murray/

That jumper, man.

It’s something else.

When he gets in a rhythm, it’s over. He can make five or six threes in a row. He made at least four threes in 13 games this season — including four games where he made at least six threes — and he became just the second freshman in college basketball history to make 113 threes in a season. The other guy to do that? Curry, Stephen. [...]

But he’s not just a shooter, either.

Murray can handle the ball. He’s capable of attacking close outs, he can operate in the pick-and-roll, he can lead the break and he’s a willing and capable passer. There’s a difference between being a score-first player and a selfish player, and Murray is most definitely the former. [...]

Overall, Murray has pretty impressive basketball IQ.

Defensively, he has some physical limitations, but he plays hard on that end of the floor. He doesn’t quit on plays when he gets beat and he has pretty good anticipation in passing lanes. He’ll go to the offensive glass as well. [...]

Yeah, have no idea how anyone can want Hield over him. Hield has a chance to make as much of an impact off the bat, but in the long run, Murray will almost certainly be the better player.

Did you not watch them play? Anyone who picks Murray over Hield is ASSUMING he is going to be better because at the same age.......but that isn't a guarantee. Just Because someone is better at a certain age doesn't mean they will be better at a latter age. That is a gamble..........Hield equals a bird in the hand. Why is that hard to understand?

[gaspar]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Bickley_Marotta/status/743896023840350208[/tweet]

[gaspar]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SHowardCooper/status/743883248921518080[/tweet]

[JMac1]

I expect what Kobe expects.

Yea and a lot of people expected that Jimmer Fredette would be a player in the NBA because he could shot so well. Well I guess being All NBA D-League second is something to brag about.

And a lot of people said the same about Curry and CJ that they are saying about Buddy. So never pick a senior stud player again because of Jimmer

And lets ignore all of the young guys who came into the league with high projections and failed miserably. I don't roll that way. i take every circumstance on its own individual merits......I am dumb that way.

[sunsbum]

Bender me over and call me dragan.

[JMac1]

Nutshelled

I would despise the efforts from whomever to play Booker at SF. (and TJ at PF) Its the same sh#t they tried to do with Dragic.... pretending its some form of advanced strategy when really they are masking the incongruent roster structure. Do not compromise players' abilities/growth for the sake of GMs mistakes. BuddyH is not needed. Dunn is not needed. Murray not needed...unless of course, Knight or Bled or Both are on the move.

If Buddy shooting translate, he is most desperately needed. Shooting transcends everything today. I like Bender a lot, but if you believe Buddy is the player he was at OU, then why would you not pick him? Just because we don't have KG at PF? Cleveland has TT at PF. It depends on the make up of your team. Some of you guys act as if we have to have a stud at every position, thus we are set in the backcourt and no one could be better.

Bender and Chriss becoming studs is not a forgone conclusion

Why would you despise trying something?

Buddy being a stud is not a foregone conclusion either. Far from it. I really like Buddy but you are going WAY overboard here. It reminded me when I told a poster who was really high on Austin Rivers that you can't pencil a guy like that in as a starter because he won't be able to start for awhile, and if he did, he certainly wouldn't be an impact player. He responded along the lines of "yes, he should start immediately and will definitely be an impact player."

So you are saying Austin performed like Buddy did? Buddy is a baller, if you don't want to pick him cool, but to down play him and up play "potential" guys, that's nonsense.

Yea, Buddy is going to forget how to shoot when he gets to the NBA. I am so tired of seeing open shooters brick threes all the time (PJ) and then watch Curry and Klay do what NBA shooters are supposed to do and we act like OMG they are the greatest since slice bread and no one will be able to shoot like that. Buddy can!

[darealjuice]

I expect what Kobe expects.

Yea and a lot of people expected that Jimmer Fredette would be a player in the NBA because he could shot so well. Well I guess being All NBA D-League second is something to brag about.

And a lot of people said the same about Curry and CJ that they are saying about Buddy. So never pick a senior stud player again because of Jimmer

And lets ignore all of the young guys who came into the league with high projections and failed miserably. I don't roll that way. i take every circumstance on its own individual merits......I am dumb that way.

You're ignoring all of the seniors that came into the league and failed miserably too