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2016 Draft Thread Part 3 - Poll Update

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

Who are your top two choices at the 4th pick?

Bender
42
48%
Brown
4
5%
Chriss
18
21%
Dunn
1
1%
Ellenson
2
2%
Hield
6
7%
Murray
12
14%
Other
2
2%
 
Total votes: 87

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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1801 » by NavLDO » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:32 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:
Nutshelled

I would despise the efforts from whomever to play Booker at SF. (and TJ at PF) Its the same sh#t they tried to do with Dragic.... pretending its some form of advanced strategy when really they are masking the incongruent roster structure. Do not compromise players' abilities/growth for the sake of GMs mistakes. BuddyH is not needed. Dunn is not needed. Murray not needed...unless of course, Knight or Bled or Both are on the move.



If Buddy shooting translate, he is most desperately needed. Shooting transcends everything today. I like Bender a lot, but if you believe Buddy is the player he was at OU, then why would you not pick him? Just because we don't have KG at PF? Cleveland has TT at PF. It depends on the make up of your team. Some of you guys act as if we have to have a stud at every position, thus we are set in the backcourt and no one could be better.

Bender and Chriss becoming studs is not a forgone conclusion

Why would you despise trying something?


Buddy being a stud is not a foregone conclusion either. Far from it. I really like Buddy but you are going WAY overboard here. It reminded me when I told a poster who was really high on Austin Rivers that you can't pencil a guy like that in as a starter because he won't be able to start for awhile, and if he did, he certainly wouldn't be an impact player. He responded along the lines of "yes, he should start immediately and will definitely be an impact player."


So, we still have this amazing training staff, yes?

Let me propose something. Why not take a chance on a guy like Caris LeVert, who is more versatile, better rebounder, much better A/TO and PPR numbers, equal career 3PT%, STL rate, fewer TOs, fewer PFs, yet also a bit lower FT%, at 28 or 34, than spending the #4 on Hield?

LeVert's injury issues are his Left Foot. If the Suns training staff feel comfortable (and I'll admit, that's a big IF), but if they do, why not take that chance?

Yes, Hield had a phenomenal Senior year, and yes, he's the better prospect and healthier, but LeVert is also almost a year younger, is 2" taller, with a slightly longer Wingspan, but is a bit on the 'light' side. But again, we're talking the difference between #4 and #34 here, so yes, again, Hield is likely better, but is he 30 spots better? Maybe, IDK, that's why I'm asking the question.

If the Suns medical staff feel his left foot will not continue to be a major issue, would it be worth it to go with the 'slightly' lesser prospect in the 2nd Rd? Is Hield that 'transformational SG' talent we need? I mean, LeVert shot 45% from 3 on 4.3 attempts/gm last year, and 41% 2 years prior, his last 'full' season. That's pretty darn good. But again, just a thought.
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Re: Re: Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1802 » by darealjuice » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:40 pm

saintEscaton wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:Buddy has the slight edge in off the bounce/ creating abilities, athleticism and is considerably longer/taller standing reach, so I think he has the protoypical attributes to be an NBA 2. Buddy has the chance to be an average defender whereas Murray may always be a sieve. don't think Murray is a Korver tier pure shooter and his low release point needs to be reworked if he wants to get his shot off , his piss poor measurables really limit his upside despite age being in his favor

I agree when viewing them both as 2 guard prospects. The question with Murray is could he be a point in the NBA. His numbers in college would say it's unlikely he could be a point but he also wasn't asked to be the point so it's not a forgone conclusion that he can't. With that said if the suns are drafting someone as a future pg they might as well take Dunn.


Coach Cal actually give him the reigns to start the season because he showed promise running the point in the Pan Am games/ Nike EYBL. The results? UK dropped out of the AP Top 25 for the first time in 2 year and Murray failed to break even registered a assist tot turnover ratio less than 1 and Ulis was given his job back.Murray's assist percentage was below average even for a wing , although he was asked to do a little more playmaking, he was dreadful in transition and isn't someone you want pushing the break or trying to collapse a D


Lol this narrative you're trying to spin is funny, where in the world do you get some of your information? Kentucky was never once outside of the AP Top 25 all year, not sure where you're getting that from. Kentucky was actually top 5 all year until week 7, so if he had the reins at the beginning of the season like you're trying to say, he must have been doing just fine. The only time they were close to being out of the top 25 was late in the season. If you look at his splits by month, the only months that he had a A:TO below 1 were January and February, when he was strictly off the ball, which doesn't really fit your narrative either... It's been beat to death that scoring was his only job on a Kentucky team that otherwise couldn't score worth squat, bringing up how he has a low AST% doesn't mean much. He flashed playmaking ability, the question is if he can do it consistently. Regardless, I struggled to believe he ever truly had the reins to the offense considering Tyler Ulis started every single game but one this year, which he sat out of.
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1803 » by darealjuice » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:50 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/743921879258390528[/tweet]

McD out to lunch with Chriss right now apparently, picture is in link lol

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stevefoote12/status/743923195435069440[/tweet]

The guy claims he heard him tell Chriss that he's the guy at 4 :o
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1804 » by TeamTragic » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:51 pm

darealjuice wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/743921879258390528[/tweet]

McD out to lunch with Chriss right now apparently, picture is in link lol

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stevefoote12/status/743923195435069440[/tweet]

The guy claims he heard him tell Chriss that he's the guy at 4 :o


I really hope we don't pick Chriss :noway:
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1805 » by jcsunsfan » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:54 pm

GoranTragic wrote:
darealjuice wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/743921879258390528[/tweet]

McD out to lunch with Chriss right now apparently, picture is in link lol

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stevefoote12/status/743923195435069440[/tweet]

The guy claims he heard him tell Chriss that he's the guy at 4 :o


I really hope we don't pick Chriss :noway:


Yup. Horrible rebounder. Just horrible.
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1806 » by TeamTragic » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:01 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:
darealjuice wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/743921879258390528[/tweet]

McD out to lunch with Chriss right now apparently, picture is in link lol

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stevefoote12/status/743923195435069440[/tweet]

The guy claims he heard him tell Chriss that he's the guy at 4 :o


I really hope we don't pick Chriss :noway:


Yup. Horrible rebounder. Just horrible.


Which is why we are meeting with him :noway:
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1807 » by MHZ » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:05 pm

Haha. We all get so caught up in draft season insanity. Love this time of the year.

Random on Twitter linking two tin cans with strings to listen in on another table, blurry ass pictures, etc. Next week can't get here soon enough.
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1808 » by gaspar » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:11 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:
I really hope we don't pick Chriss :noway:


Yup. Horrible rebounder. Just horrible.

Who cares. As the great Andrea Bargnani once said, "we play basket-ball, not rebound-ball".
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1809 » by Saberestar » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:19 pm

darealjuice wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/743921879258390528[/tweet]

McD out to lunch with Chriss right now apparently, picture is in link lol

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stevefoote12/status/743923195435069440[/tweet]

The guy claims he heard him tell Chriss that he's the guy at 4 :o

If that's true that are HORRIBLE NEWS in my opinion.
My last favorite player BY A MILE, I wouldn't pick him even at #13. Like Oubre in last year's draft, this guy doesn't have a clue about playing team basketball, not feel for the game AT ALL.

Another athletic player ala Gerald Green..... AT #4!!!! :banghead:

Hopefully this guy on twitter doesn't know exactly what was happening and he didn't heard anything.
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1810 » by letsgosuns » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:19 pm

Phoenix Suns Insider ‏@InsiderSuns 12m12 minutes ago
According to @stevefoote12, the Suns informed Marquese Chriss that he is their pick at #4 if he's available.

Does anyone else find this kind of hilarious? No offense to this guy, but who is Steve Foote?
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1811 » by Cactus Jack » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:20 pm

JMac1 wrote:Btw, I changed my vote to Buddy. Bender or Buddy! Buddy....

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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1812 » by GetYourPHX » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:24 pm

letsgosuns wrote:Phoenix Suns Insider ‏@InsiderSuns 12m12 minutes ago
According to @stevefoote12, the Suns informed Marquese Chriss that he is their pick at #4 if he's available.

Does anyone else find this kind of hilarious? No offense to this guy, but who is Steve Foote?


He's literally just a guy at a restaurant.

:lol: The week before the draft is the BEST!
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1813 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:28 pm

NavLDO wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
JMac1 wrote:

If Buddy shooting translate, he is most desperately needed. Shooting transcends everything today. I like Bender a lot, but if you believe Buddy is the player he was at OU, then why would you not pick him? Just because we don't have KG at PF? Cleveland has TT at PF. It depends on the make up of your team. Some of you guys act as if we have to have a stud at every position, thus we are set in the backcourt and no one could be better.

Bender and Chriss becoming studs is not a forgone conclusion

Why would you despise trying something?


Buddy being a stud is not a foregone conclusion either. Far from it. I really like Buddy but you are going WAY overboard here. It reminded me when I told a poster who was really high on Austin Rivers that you can't pencil a guy like that in as a starter because he won't be able to start for awhile, and if he did, he certainly wouldn't be an impact player. He responded along the lines of "yes, he should start immediately and will definitely be an impact player."


So, we still have this amazing training staff, yes?

Let me propose something. Why not take a chance on a guy like Caris LeVert, who is more versatile, better rebounder, much better A/TO and PPR numbers, equal career 3PT%, STL rate, fewer TOs, fewer PFs, yet also a bit lower FT%, at 28 or 34, than spending the #4 on Hield?

LeVert's injury issues are his Left Foot. If the Suns training staff feel comfortable (and I'll admit, that's a big IF), but if they do, why not take that chance?

Yes, Hield had a phenomenal Senior year, and yes, he's the better prospect and healthier, but LeVert is also almost a year younger, is 2" taller, with a slightly longer Wingspan, but is a bit on the 'light' side. But again, we're talking the difference between #4 and #34 here, so yes, again, Hield is likely better, but is he 30 spots better? Maybe, IDK, that's why I'm asking the question.

If the Suns medical staff feel his left foot will not continue to be a major issue, would it be worth it to go with the 'slightly' lesser prospect in the 2nd Rd? Is Hield that 'transformational SG' talent we need? I mean, LeVert shot 45% from 3 on 4.3 attempts/gm last year, and 41% 2 years prior, his last 'full' season. That's pretty darn good. But again, just a thought.


The point is we don't need to waste the pick on another SG. Last year we thought/wanted our future PF and we took a SG. I'm very glad we did. But we certainly don't need to do it again. We already have two SGs, three if you count Bogdan.

Now if a SG stood out well above and in a different stratosphere than the rest of the prospects, maybe, so if Bender is off the board, I won't mind if we go SG, because Murray or Hield might be the best players and Chriss has bust potential and some glaring weaknesses. I'll defer that judgement to the FO. I can't say for sure if I'd take Chriss over Murray or Hield or that I'd take Murray or Hield over Ellenson without having seen all their workouts, been in their interviews, etc. But if Chriss and Murray are ranked equally, I'd lean to the player that fits the team better.

We would just have a crazy logjam of players either way, and players flourish more when they know their role and get more opportunities. McD is unlikely to trade Bledsoe or Knight, and maybe not Warren, and I want Booker and Warren to get as much opportunity as possible.

If Bender is off the board and they are not enamored with another PF at 4, I hope they try and trade down or trade for a player.
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1814 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:30 pm

Saberestar wrote:
darealjuice wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/743921879258390528[/tweet]

McD out to lunch with Chriss right now apparently, picture is in link lol

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stevefoote12/status/743923195435069440[/tweet]

The guy claims he heard him tell Chriss that he's the guy at 4 :o

If that's true that are HORRIBLE NEWS in my opinion.
My last favorite player BY A MILE, I wouldn't pick him even at #13. Like Oubre in last year's draft, this guy doesn't have a clue about playing team basketball, not feel for the game AT ALL.

Another athletic player ala Gerald Green..... AT #4!!!! :banghead:

Hopefully this guy on twitter doesn't know exactly what was happening and he didn't heard anything.


Yeah, I wouldn't put too much stock into some random guy on twitter. We may very well take him at 4 if he's available but what does this guy know?

He doesn't look like the best of sources for info. https://twitter.com/stevefoote12
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Re: Re: Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1815 » by NavLDO » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:30 pm

saintEscaton wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
saintEscaton wrote:Buddy has the slight edge in off the bounce/ creating abilities, athleticism and is considerably longer/taller standing reach, so I think he has the protoypical attributes to be an NBA 2. Buddy has the chance to be an average defender whereas Murray may always be a sieve. don't think Murray is a Korver tier pure shooter and his low release point needs to be reworked if he wants to get his shot off , his piss poor measurables really limit his upside despite age being in his favor

I agree when viewing them both as 2 guard prospects. The question with Murray is could he be a point in the NBA. His numbers in college would say it's unlikely he could be a point but he also wasn't asked to be the point so it's not a forgone conclusion that he can't. With that said if the suns are drafting someone as a future pg they might as well take Dunn.


Coach Cal actually give him the reigns to start the season because he showed promise running the point in the Pan Am games/ Nike EYBL. The results? UK dropped out of the AP Top 25 for the first time in 2 year and Murray failed to break even registered a assist tot turnover ratio less than 1 and Ulis was given his job back.Murray's assist percentage was below average even for a wing , although he was asked to do a little more playmaking, he was dreadful in transition and isn't someone you want pushing the break or trying to collapse a D


I'm more and more on this same thought process. For all Murray accomplished PRIOR to Kentucky, when he got there, he simply failed at the point, and we don't need another Combo Guard; at least not as a potential future starter, anyways. Guys like Valentine and LeVert, that likely can be had at 28 (now with the knee concerns for Valentine), I'd much rather go that route, as either of those two could fill in anywhere from the 1 to the 3...in limited minutes. Please don't take me saying that either could spend 25 minutes a game there--I'm talking in limited minutes.

Anyway, I'd rather they go that route than Murray at 4.
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1816 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:32 pm

letsgosuns wrote:Phoenix Suns Insider ‏@InsiderSuns 12m12 minutes ago
According to @stevefoote12, the Suns informed Marquese Chriss that he is their pick at #4 if he's available.

Does anyone else find this kind of hilarious? No offense to this guy, but who is Steve Foote?


Yeah, that Phx Suns Insider is a poster here, or at least a lurker here, probably laughing at your post and this one right now.
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Re: 2016 Draft Thread Part 3 

Post#1817 » by Villalobos » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:33 pm

I don't understand the point of telling players they're your pick in advance, especially in a volatile draft like this where you expect anything to happen on draft night past pick #2. What's the advantage? Eliminating the small chance that the player gets injured in other workouts?

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