Barney > Tulo

lumblor · Post #1 » by **lumblor** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:45 am

I'm not attempting to troll... I'm more comfortable with Darwin at the dish nowadays. We really never saw the best of Tulo, and it's nearly been a calendar year at this point. I feel like this is still a taboo topic, but we need to start discussing it. The defense is a wash... Darwin plays multiple + positions defensively, maybe you even give it to him at this point...

Randle McMurphy · Post #2 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:52 am

I remember when they said Goins was better than Tulo too.

hyper316 · Post #3 » by **hyper316** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:03 am

Tulo in rockies was one of the best position player in the game, sad to see such decline being outranked by a utility man like barney

Basketball_Jones · Post #4 » by **Basketball_Jones** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:05 am

The defense is not a wash. But yeah, Barney is impressive there too.

lumblor · Post #5 » by **lumblor** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:35 am

It's hard to appreciate Tulo for what I know he was in Colorado. We literally haven't seen it. Buck and Pat haven't given up on him, maybe I'm premature, but I just don't see it, it's been a year if you count the couple months before the trade where he struggled.

On the other hand, I'm not saying this only based on Tulo's decline.. Darwin is a gold glove winner and was once an amazing prospect. Could we have found another diamond in the rough akin to Jose? He seems very comfortable and has outplayed Tulo for what I would judge to be a significant amount of time (my opinion, I know it's not shared among many).

It's not doom and gloom, I think this team is better than last years. The pitching is so much improved (surprisingly, give Ross credit where it's due). I just think that if Darwin continues what he's doing, how long do we turn our backs? Tulo's coming back soon, and going to get the lion's share of time at short. But can we at least start the conversation?

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pingpongrac · Post #6 » by **pingpongrac** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:55 am

Tulo has been garbage at the plate since the trade (.220/.302/.383 is laughable), but he does have 15 HR and 51 RBI in those 98 games, which is very respectable for a SS. His ~.981 fielding percentage (likely higher, as I don't recall him committing any errors in the ALDS/ALCS and I can't find the data anywhere at the moment) is also very solid. I think he actually went something like 75 games before committing an error as a Jay, but then he hit a rough patch and the errors starting piling up a few weeks before his DL stint. Tulo's defense and production has generally come as advertised, but the AVG and OBP has been abysmal - as they're both more than 60 points below his career averages.

Barney has been great, but you can't expect him to keep up this level of hot hitting for much longer. He's a better hitter than Goins, so this is a bit more sustainable than Goins' hot streak in August/September last year, but I don't think we'll see much more than 10 HR and 40 RBI from Barney unless he plays every game the rest of the way.

It's still Tulo >> Barney, in my opinion.

Raps in 4 · Post #7 » by **Raps in 4** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:50 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:I remember when they said Goins was better than Tulo too.

Goins and Barney are both scrubs, but so is Tulo at this point. They are very comparable players.

Raps_Swingman · Post #8 » by **Raps_Swingman** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:12 pm

Barney is a solid bench player and shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as either Tuto (not as good) or Goins (he's much better)

rarefind · Post #9 » by **rarefind** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:13 pm

The only thing going for Tulo is the pedigree and actual fact that he has had an extremely successful career up until 2015. I'm still holding out though that we see him reach a much better level of production. Guys don't typically fall off the planet at the rate Tulo has to this point. He strikes me as the type of player who feels like he has to be "the man" and may be pressing considerably seeing guys like Donaldson, Bautista and Edwin rake and wanting to join in on the party. Really hoping this time on the DL and rehabbing gets him back on track. Make no mistake guys, we need him to be the elite hitter he once was.

At this point, just be thankful we're not running Jose freaking Reyes out there and hope for Tulo to make some changes to his approach. He seems to not be nearly as aggressive at the plate and is literally not trying to hit fastballs. I''m an advocate to lead him off when he gets back until Jose is back and buy him some good pitches hitting in front of JD.

pantalones · Post #10 » by **pantalones** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:56 pm

lumblor wrote:I'm not attempting to troll... I'm more comfortable with Darwin at the dish nowadays. We really never saw the best of Tulo, and it's nearly been a calendar year at this point. I feel like this is still a taboo topic, but we need to start discussing it. The defense is a wash... Darwin plays multiple + positions defensively, maybe you even give it to him at this point...

To argue to the contrary is to get caught up with the name on the back of the jersey, not the actual performance of the player in said jersey. Yes, at this stage, Barney is better than Caillou.

pantalones · Post #11 » by **pantalones** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:56 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:I remember when they said Goins was better than Tulo too.

Got a link?

LLJ · Post #12 » by **LLJ** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:05 pm

pantalones wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:I remember when they said Goins was better than Tulo too.

Got a link?

He's talking about fans on this board last August.

pantalones · Post #13 » by **pantalones** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:08 pm

LLJ wrote:
pantalones wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:I remember when they said Goins was better than Tulo too.

Got a link?

He's talking about fans on this board last August.

Right, but I don't think anyone here said that Goins was better than Caillou, hence my request for a link. I think that was a bit of hyperbole. Barney on the other hand, seems pretty consistent thus far.

LLJ · Post #14 » by **LLJ** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:12 pm

pantalones wrote:
LLJ wrote:
pantalones wrote:
Got a link?

He's talking about fans on this board last August.

Right, but I don't think anyone here said that Goins was better than Caillou, hence my request for a link. I think that was a bit of hyperbole. Barney on the other hand, seems pretty consistent thus far.

There definitely were, I remember it. Tulo's hitting has been very frustrating for some people here since the trade.

OvOh · Post #15 » by **OvOh** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:25 pm

I wonder if the Rockies thought or knew that something was up with Tulo when they agreed to the deal last year.

North_of_Border · Post #16 » by **North_of_Border** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:35 am

OvOhYeah wrote:I wonder if the Rockies thought or knew that something was up with Tulo when they agreed to the deal last year.

No I doubt they had any idea that it would turn out like this for Tulo after the deal.

He was still an elite SS in Colorado at the time of the trade. Rockies just had two elite SS prospects both almost ready for the Majors, one of which was Trevor Story. So since Tulo was getting older, was expensive, they were heading towards a rebuild and what the Jays offered, it made sense to trade him.

Post #17 » by **Schad** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:17 am

OvOhYeah wrote:I wonder if the Rockies thought or knew that something was up with Tulo when they agreed to the deal last year.

Wasn't exactly a secret that it was a big risk, given his injury history and contract. We decided to gamble that he'd have 2-3 more years of elite-level play before his injuries and age caught up, but the possibility always existed that he'd fall off a cliff.

RapsFanInVA · Post #18 » by **RapsFanInVA** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:54 pm

0-1 since Tulo's return to the lineup. Coincidence?!

Yosemite Dan · Post #19 » by **Yosemite Dan** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:23 pm

If we get rid of Tulo, it won't be because of Barney, It's because we can't afford to be paying 20 million for the next several years to a guy who has declined rapidly when he is healthy enough to stay in the lineup. Whether the Jays want to retool or rebuild next year, Tulo doesn't fit into the plans either way

The_Hater · Post #20 » by **The_Hater** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:55 pm

Yosemite Dan wrote:If we get rid of Tulo, it won't be because of Barney, It's because we can't afford to be paying 20 million for the next several years to a guy who has declined rapidly when he is healthy enough to stay in the lineup. Whether the Jays want to retool or rebuild next year, Tulo doesn't fit into the plans either way

If Tulo can return to his 2014 form, he would fit into the team's plans quite nicely. Having a SS who isn't yet 32, plays solid defense and hits like 1B is a very nice luxury. A 2-way player at a premium position is a better investment than spending it on a DH type who doesn't play the field such as JB or EE. And Barney isn't signed past this season so I'm not sure what the alternative would be. Goins? Yuck.

If Tulo can't return to the hitter he was just 12 months ago then forget I wrote any of this please...