2016 Draft Thread Part 4

[JMac1]

Lets leave how good he might or might not be out of the equasion. If you have a guy that is going to play 40 minutes a game at the 2 for the next 8 years of his career here 100% no question... you dont draft another guy that is a 1 position player behind him. ESPECIALLY if you have glaring holes your team needs to fill. You cant say "oh well the blazers drafted sam bowie with that mindframe" because thats pretty easy hindsight talk. Buddy is 100% unproven in the league and at a position that is dead last in need. I'd rather take a couple flyers on some power forwards.

Better tell MC'd. He said a long time ago he was taking BPA, even if its a guard.

[NaturalBuns]

Lets leave how good he might or might not be out of the equasion. If you have a guy that is going to play 40 minutes a game at the 2 for the next 8 years of his career here 100% no question... you dont draft another guy that is a 1 position player behind him. ESPECIALLY if you haveglaring holes your team needs to fill. You cant say "oh well the blazers drafted sam bowie with that mindframe" because thats pretty easy hindsight talk. Buddy is 100% unproven in the league and at a position that is dead last in need. I'd rather take a couple flyers on some power forwards.

Why draft need over BPA? Your basically passing on better talent I'll never understand that.

[JMac1]

Dont forget about all the other "Lights Our Shooting Stars" that didnt even make it as a role player, like Jimmer and Morrison.

Just like I didn't forget blowing your head off for Booker gif

Why are we going back and forth on Hield? I like him other don't, case close. To try to prove me wrong and yourself right is laughable. It will come in due time. Thank you very much.

People continue to act like their chit don't stank........incredible.

That's rich coming from the guy claiming we'll all be crying because he's awesome in Minny/New Orleans? I think you might want to go back and read your own posts; we are simply responding to your hyperbole on how Hield's such a "Baller" and "Case closed".

At least the rest of us are open to more than ONE prospect, and aren't covering our ears, closing our eyes, saying "la la la la la...I'm not listening...Hield is great, everyone else stinks...la la la la la..."

That was all said after the billion retorts for my saying I wanted Buddy #4. That was it, then all hell broke lose.

At least the rest of us are open to more than ONE prospect, and aren't covering our ears, closing our eyes, saying "la la la la la...I'm not listening...Hield is great, everyone else stinks...la la la la la..

Are you on drugs!?! I am open to everyone, if you don't know that by now, you are either a jackass or new to the conversation or don't know how to read......What a crock of ****!

[JMac1]

Lets leave how good he might or might not be out of the equasion. If you have a guy that is going to play 40 minutes a game at the 2 for the next 8 years of his career here 100% no question... you dont draft another guy that is a 1 position player behind him. ESPECIALLY if you haveglaring holes your team needs to fill. You cant say "oh well the blazers drafted sam bowie with that mindframe" because thats pretty easy hindsight talk. Buddy is 100% unproven in the league and at a position that is dead last in need. I'd rather take a couple flyers on some power forwards.

Why draft need over BPA? Your basically passing on better talent I'll never understand that.

Mind blowing right?

[sunsbum]

Lets leave how good he might or might not be out of the equasion. If you have a guy that is going to play 40 minutes a game at the 2 for the next 8 years of his career here 100% no question... you dont draft another guy that is a 1 position player behind him. ESPECIALLY if you haveglaring holes your team needs to fill. You cant say "oh well the blazers drafted sam bowie with that mindframe" because thats pretty easy hindsight talk. Buddy is 100% unproven in the league and at a position that is dead last in need. I'd rather take a couple flyers on some power forwards.

Why draft need over BPA? Your basically passing on better talent I'll never understand that.

Not to sound rude but did you read what I wrote? This draft has no BPA after simmons/ingram in our spot. Thats why theres a huge 7 page argument about heild. If this were a different draft and heild was by far and away the best prospect then yes, I agree take him. This years draft is very unique though and you cant draft on BPA cause they are all so close. In that case, you take a position of need.

[NavLDO]

if we draft based on what Chad Ford says that NBA scouts think, i will fly to Phoenix and tape a "Fire McD" poster to the podium before McD introduces the rookies. giant, red Sharpie.

If you look at the article I posted, it looks like his tiers do a good job at pegging the general order of how the prospects get drafted.

That doesn't mean he pegs their outlook as players properly; many players bust relative to their draft position, and some, like Booker, surprise.

But his tier structure is a pretty good tool to use when trying to figure out how teams rank these guys. For whatever reasons, scouts and GMs believe Hield is a tier below the Murray/Dunn/Bender/Brown/Chriss group. That doesn't mean he won't be better than those guys...he absolutely could be. But for now, going off the information we have at hand, he's not considered on their level by the decision makers.

i looked at the article you posted.

last year, we were smarter than Sacramento, Orlando, the Lakers, Utah......

the trick is not to be as smart as other teams, but to be smartER than those teams.

last year, we did that. McD is 5 steps ahead of almost every team, IMO. that's why he ditched the 28 year old point guard and traded for the 23 year old one, regardless of perception, why he drafted Len, who hasn't been great but is still a unique prospect, and why he wants guys like Harrison Barnes. teams like Orlando and Milwaukee will be stuck where they are for a while. they keep hoping and hoping that Tobias Harris or Greg Monroe will save them from the late lottery, and are too scared to cut bait with B to C- level players that are quickly losing trade value.

i could give a darn what Chad Ford thinks. he seems to think that Devin Booker is more likely a role player than a star. i disagree. he seems to think that Henry Ellenson won't be a star. only i seem to disagree with that, but i've been right before.

be wrong or be right, but don't make a decision based on critics. if they knew what McD knew, they might have his job by now.

I agree with 90% of what you posted, but 2 things to recognize. The 1st being, that those of us that are taking what that article says on board, is for what the NBA Scouts think, NOT hat Chad Ford thinks. I believe we all agree with you there.

The 2nd being that it has yet to be determined that McD lasts beyond this season, so until he gets an extension or 2nd contract, I wouldn't throw all your weight behind McD' moves--he's made some poor moves as well--Drafting/Trading away Ennis for peanuts being one.

Yes, I like McD's moves for the mot part, but a $13M per contract to a 32YO Center was NOT one of them, and I have no idea why he couldn't get that down to a 2-3 year contract at $12M per or less. Who else was going to offer Chandler that contract...and for that matter, Knight.

And as far as Ford's thoughts on Booker, well, yeah, he's likely off on that, if nothing else, based upon his 'drive'; he doesn't appear to be a 'rest on your laurels' type of player.

[bwgood77]

First off, Go Suns!!!

Ok. I'm not a Suns fan. I have a Phoenix question unrelated to the draft or basketball at all for that matter. But in regards to the draft: I hope the Suns get a great player and do unexpectedly well next year.


Here's the question: I was looking at your weather forecast!!! How the hell? I mean, O My Freakin God, look at this: https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/USAZ0166:1:US

Look at it! How do you cope? Your lows are higher than our highs. 120 degrees? I hope that if this is the apocalypse you are all having a good one.

Once again, Go Suns! ...and please don't die.

But it's a DRY heat. Actually, I was surprised to see it was THAT hot in Phx right now, though it has been there in the past. Figures when we have Chriss and Bender in to visit it's like 115 degrees. They are probably thinking "damn, I hope I don't go to Phx".

[darealjuice]

Man, if Buddy ends up being just a role player JMac is gonna be eating a lot of crow lol

And if

Bender fails, and Chriss fails, and Brown balls out and Dunn balls out and Buddy balls out who will be eating crow?

I guess Buddy has to be a HOFer for me not to eat Crow. As long as he out performs the other guy, I am cool.

Well first off, I feel good about Dunn as an NBA player; I just think everyone calling him John Wall or Dwayne Wade are overboard. I also don't think he ends up better than Bledsoe, so there's not reason to draft him. I don't talk about people I'm high on like they're automatic stars like you do, I just correct misconceptions about players, e.g. basically every comparison you've ever made, Bender = Porzingis/Gasol/Veseley, and Chriss = Davis/Warrick/Stoudemire/Kemp. I've also never said Buddy would bust. I just think drafting Booker's back up with the 4th pick in the draft is not a wise decision in our situation, nor do I think he's the best player on the board there in any situation. In my opinion, his ceiling is being a pure scorer akin to Michael Redd in the NBA, which is pretty far from busting but also not a Hall of Famer/Superstar. I don't even think I've said Brown will bust, but I think comparing him to top 5 players like Westbrook and Kawhi are way to optimistic. I will say that I don't think he lands on an All Rookie team though. Regardless, if those guys end up being star players despite what I think, I'll gladly eat crow, but my expectations of them has never been to suck, and my point almost every time I dispute them is that I don't think they're the best player on the board for us. I'd be more than give you my opinion on floors and ceilings on our options if you want?

Second, my point is that you talk about Buddy Hield like the transition to the NBA is a formality and he'll be a star immediately. No one in this class, likely Simmons and Ingram included, is going to be dominating early in the season; Rookies very rarely step in and dominate from Day One like you're implying.

[bwgood77]

For such a weak draft why are teams trying to trade Okafor and Russell to get a pick in this draft?

Sometimes people get a little too obsessed with a prospect. You may understand.

[JMac1]

See the difference?

would this board explode if we picked Buddy at #3?

It would be a different sort of fireworks.

I Like Buddy but not at 3. Brown please.

I Like Buddy but not at 3. Brown please.

I'll take Buddy over Brown all day. Way too many busts in this league from thinking you can teach athletic guys how to play basketball.

I Like Buddy but not at 3. Brown please.

I'll take Buddy over Brown all day. Way too many busts in this league from thinking you can teach athletic guys how to play basketball.

I'm guessing that if that rumor is true and Ainge is trying to acquire a 2nd top ten pick then Buddy is probably the target. Brown and Hield would be quite the haul and go a long way to addressing our offensive issues. Then Ainge can swing for the fences with some potential rim protectors later in the draft.

I'll take Buddy over Brown all day. Way too many busts in this league from thinking you can teach athletic guys how to play basketball.

I'm guessing that if that rumor is true and Ainge is trying to acquire a 2nd top ten pick then Buddy is probably the target. Brown and Hield would be quite the haul and go a long way to addressing our offensive issues. Then Ainge can swing for the fences with some potential rim protectors later in the draft.

I was thinking the same thing. IT/Smart/Hield/Rozier/Brown/Crowder/Olynyk/Johnson/Mickey/Jerebco/#16 + RJ/Young

See the difference?

From Celts board.

[bwgood77]

I can see Hield on this team. He won't be the pick. We have scorers.

There is an abnormally high percentage that he'll be Michael Redd or Kevin Martin in a very short period of time - maybe 20%. For most guys, the odds that they ever get there are probably between 10 and 40%. With Devin Booker, at this point, it's very likely to happen in two more years.

If there's a 16% chance he's already Redd or Martin, then there's a 5-9% chance he's already Manu Ginobili. There's a 1% chance that he's Steph Curry. That would be amazing, but there's only one Steph, so let's rule that out together. He is not Steph Curry. The odds of anyone ever becoming that good are less than 3%. 1 out of thousands of guys. Ray and Reggie span 30 years, and Steph is twice as good as them.

If there's a 16% chance he's already Redd or Martin, then there's an 84% chance that he's a little worse, will get neutralized pretty easily due to predictability, won't have the right opportunity, or won't develop much in the next three years.

If one of those things happens - and it is VERY likely - if ANY one of those things happened, he will not be an All-Star.

So there's a big risk with Buddy. It's especially true if we can't find someone to trade for Bledsoe or Knight. If Buddy doesn't pan out, then we can't stash him on the bench. Besides, we already have Devin Booker. That would be a pretty short, non-defensive set of wings. I don't see how we end up any better than the SSOL Suns with those two on the wings. Unless one of them becomes Steph Curry, and I don't think either will ever be that good.

in other words......i don't think it's happening. it's not strategic, it's not smart, it ignores our current talent, it forces us to trade, and you never know how Hield would really turn out.

i'd MUCH rather wait 5 years for Marquese Chriss to develop than let Buddy and Booker be our wings. It's a sexy duo, but it won't win games.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDoncJckows[/youtube]

[JMac1]

For such a weak draft why are teams trying to trade Okafor and Russell to get a pick in this draft?

Sometimes people get a little too obsessed with a prospect. You may understand.

Yea, like Bender or Chriss and no one else for most on this board. No Buddy, no Dunn, no Murray, no Hiel,d no Brown, I have said something good about all of them and the most feedback I got was anger unless it was Bender and maybe Murray, but the obsession of hate is worse than the obsession of love. Love is inclusive and hate is exclusive. A lot of people here HATE prospects.

I love something about all the players and hate nothing about them so much where I wouldn't want any of them drafted at #4.

[DRK]

A lot of information came out today about the Suns wanting Chriss as well as that picture of him and McDonough at lunch, but Idk how much stock I put into any of it. The team still has not worked out Bender. Who knows if this is all a smokescreen and the Suns are acting like Chriss is their guy even though they want Bender or someone else.

There was a picture of them at lunch? I thought Gambo said McD would have to travel to LA to see him because he is doing workouts there and as far as he knows he hasn't. I knew people were joking about Chriss being in town but I didn't think he was...or was this lunch in LA? Or are you talking about a picture someone joked about or that twitter thing with some guy saying he talked with Chriss at lunch?

It is McD and Chriss together at lunch.

Naw man thats not Chriss thats Michael Beasley!!

Michael Beasley #TheReturn2017

[darealjuice]

See the difference?

would this board explode if we picked Buddy at #3?

I Like Buddy but not at 3. Brown please.

I'll take Buddy over Brown all day. Way too many busts in this league from thinking you can teach athletic guys how to play basketball.

I'll take Buddy over Brown all day. Way too many busts in this league from thinking you can teach athletic guys how to play basketball.

I'm guessing that if that rumor is true and Ainge is trying to acquire a 2nd top ten pick then Buddy is probably the target. Brown and Hield would be quite the haul and go a long way to addressing our offensive issues. Then Ainge can swing for the fences with some potential rim protectors later in the draft.

I'm guessing that if that rumor is true and Ainge is trying to acquire a 2nd top ten pick then Buddy is probably the target. Brown and Hield would be quite the haul and go a long way to addressing our offensive issues. Then Ainge can swing for the fences with some potential rim protectors later in the draft.

I was thinking the same thing. IT/Smart/Hield/Rozier/Brown/Crowder/Olynyk/Johnson/Mickey/Jerebco/#16 + RJ/Young

See the difference?

From Celts board.

I love how your board can understand the value of Buddy and Brown and Chris and Bender and Dunn. You guys have open minds, must be nice.

You're such a whiny little baby Ohhh noooo people don't feel the same as me about these draft prospects, better go cuddle up with someone who thinks like me so I feel better. Notice how none of them go around talking about Hield as an instant superstar or Brown as the next Westbrook/Leonard hybrid? That's the reason people come at you, you talk like your guys are the next sliced bread and every other prospect is a pile of rocks. You talk about open-mindedness, yet you're the most closed-minded person on the board.

[NavLDO]

Lets leave how good he might or might not be out of the equasion. If you have a guy that is going to play 40 minutes a game at the 2 for the next 8 years of his career here 100% no question... you dont draft another guy that is a 1 position player behind him. ESPECIALLY if you have glaring holes your team needs to fill. You cant say "oh well the blazers drafted sam bowie with that mindframe" because thats pretty easy hindsight talk. Buddy is 100% unproven in the league and at a position that is dead last in need. I'd rather take a couple flyers on some power forwards.

Exactly. Hield is NOT that Kobe, Jordan, etc. type of transformational talent; if he was, he'd be snatched up ahead of Simmons and/or Ingram. NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE has Hield even 'sniffing' anywhere near their 'tier'.

So with that, he's, at best, squarely in the Dunn, Chriss, Bender, Brown, Ellenson, Murray, Poeltl, Skal, and Davis 'tier'. And if he didn't have knee problems, I'd take Valentine ALL DAY over Hield.

Valentine's per 40 stats from last year: 23.3 pts, 9.1 TRBs, 9.4 Assts, 44.4% 3PT%, 85.3% FT%, 2.84 A/TO, 7.25 PPR, 30.1 EFF/40, 30.1 PER, and can play 3 positions (if needed), 1.5" longer Wingspan than Hield, and .75" taller.

Hield beats out Valentine on 2PT%, 3PT%, and FT%, oh, and Defense, but all nominally, as opposed to comparing Valentine's 7.25 PPR vs Hield's -4.85 PPR, or his 2.84 A/TO vs Hield's .66 A/TO, 9.4 assts vs 2.3...

...oh, and the best part, he did it for 2 years, demonstrating a much lower chance of 'fluke'-factor.

And this whole "you make him fit" piece? Yeah, if he was one of the top 3 prospects in the class, but he's not, so your making room for a player that is not projected to be any better than 3-4 prospects at a position of need? Why??

[DRK]

Much rather have Bender if not Hield or Murray........Just say no to drugs, ugly women and Chriss!

I prefer Ellenson over Chriss. Hopefully, Boston pulls the trigger on Marquese before we do.

Ellenson will be there at 13.

These NBA finals have been really telling as to how valueable it is to have your big man with decent footspeed and decent defence.

Kevin Love may be the most offensively talented and skilled player on the Cavs, but hes been reduced to 10-15 minutes off the bench in the finals, and everytime hes on the Warriors make a run.

Henceforth why I am not high on prospects like Ellenson. I wouldnt touch him in the top 20, and I think these NBA Finals back me up.

[darealjuice]

The Suns worked out Chinanu Onuaku and Dragan Bender today if anyone cares to know

[DRK]

Found out Marquese Chriss studied engineering at college.

Hope he's not one of those smart dumb guys like Brandon Knight.

But just knowing you want to major in engineering is what intrigues me. Most people going into college don't realize how much more valuable that degree is than almost any other. That alone makes me think he has a good head on his shoulders.

As a student who is 6months away from graduating Uni with a degree in Civil/Structural Engineering, youre having a hard time convincing me of that statement with the absolute oversaturation of engineers in our dwindling job market.

[JMac1]

Man, if Buddy ends up being just a role player JMac is gonna be eating a lot of crow lol

And if

Bender fails, and Chriss fails, and Brown balls out and Dunn balls out and Buddy balls out who will be eating crow?

I guess Buddy has to be a HOFer for me not to eat Crow. As long as he out performs the other guy, I am cool.

Well first off, I feel good about Dunn as an NBA player; I just think everyone calling him John Wall or Dwayne Wade are overboard. I also don't think he ends up better than Bledsoe, so there's not reason to draft him. I don't talk about people I'm high on like they're automatic stars like you do, I just correct misconceptions about players, e.g. basically every comparison you've ever made, Bender = Porzingis/Gasol/Veseley, and Chriss = Davis/Warrick/Stoudemire/Kemp. I've also never said Buddy would bust. I just think drafting Booker's back up with the 4th pick in the draft is not a wise decision in our situation, nor do I think he's the best player on the board there in any situation. In my opinion, his ceiling is being a pure scorer akin to Michael Redd in the NBA, which is pretty far from busting but also not a Hall of Famer/Superstar. I don't even think I've said Brown will bust, but I think comparing him to top 5 players like Westbrook and Kawhi are way to optimistic. I will say that I don't think he lands on an All Rookie team though. Regardless, if those guys end up being star players despite what I think, I'll gladly eat crow, but my expectations of them has never been to suck, and my point almost every time I dispute them is that I don't think they're the best player on the board for us. I'd be more than give you my opinion on floors and ceilings on our options if you want?

Second, my point is that you talk about Buddy Hield like the transition to the NBA is a formality and he'll be a star immediately. No one in this class, likely Simmons and Ingram included, is going to be dominating early in the season; Rookies very rarely step in and dominate from Day One like you're implying.

You just make up stuff huh? Buddy's a baller. I didn't even say he would be an Allstar.

I said Brown is a rim attack like Westbrook. LOL

Buddy is a way better athlete than Redd (before the knee injury)

Buddy will be playing from day one.

The only person I compared Bender to was AK47 and said what if he could be like Dirk (never compared them)?

Chriss is last on my list and I said I would hope we could be a skinny Amare with 3pt range. Never compared him to anyone

Now I understand why I cannot get my point across, people (you in particular) just make things up and believe them. OJ syndrome my man, OJ syndrome.

[darealjuice]

And if

Bender fails, and Chriss fails, and Brown balls out and Dunn balls out and Buddy balls out who will be eating crow?

I guess Buddy has to be a HOFer for me not to eat Crow. As long as he out performs the other guy, I am cool.

Well first off, I feel good about Dunn as an NBA player; I just think everyone calling him John Wall or Dwayne Wade are overboard. I also don't think he ends up better than Bledsoe, so there's not reason to draft him. I don't talk about people I'm high on like they're automatic stars like you do, I just correct misconceptions about players, e.g. basically every comparison you've ever made, Bender = Porzingis/Gasol/Veseley, and Chriss = Davis/Warrick/Stoudemire/Kemp. I've also never said Buddy would bust. I just think drafting Booker's back up with the 4th pick in the draft is not a wise decision in our situation, nor do I think he's the best player on the board there in any situation. In my opinion, his ceiling is being a pure scorer akin to Michael Redd in the NBA, which is pretty far from busting but also not a Hall of Famer/Superstar. I don't even think I've said Brown will bust, but I think comparing him to top 5 players like Westbrook and Kawhi are way to optimistic. I will say that I don't think he lands on an All Rookie team though. Regardless, if those guys end up being star players despite what I think, I'll gladly eat crow, but my expectations of them has never been to suck, and my point almost every time I dispute them is that I don't think they're the best player on the board for us. I'd be more than give you my opinion on floors and ceilings on our options if you want?

Second, my point is that you talk about Buddy Hield like the transition to the NBA is a formality and he'll be a star immediately. No one in this class, likely Simmons and Ingram included, is going to be dominating early in the season; Rookies very rarely step in and dominate from Day One like you're implying.

You just make up stuff huh? Buddy's a baller. I didn't even say he would be an Allstar.

I said Brown is a rim attack like Westbrook. LOL

Buddy is a way better athlete than Redd (before the knee injury)

Buddy will be playing from day one.

The only person I compared Bender to was AK47 and said what if he could be like Dirk (never compared them)?

Chriss is last on my list and I said I would hope we could be a skinny Amare with 3pt range. Never compared him to anyone

Now I understand why I cannot get my point across, people (you in particular) just make things up and believe them. OJ syndrome my man, OJ syndrome.

Lol you're a big sad clown dude, congrats on being the first person on my ignore list on here oh well, not like you've ever said anything of substance here anyways so I'm not missing out