'15-16 RealGM Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[Texas Chuck]

So I'm the only one who doesn't blame Draymond for costing them the series? Sorry but they had 2 more chances including another home game to wrap that up. And I don't want to hear one word about injury excuses. Maybe with Green there they win it 5, but I think that's far from a guarantee.

Obviously Draymond deserves to take some heat for getting himself needlessly suspended in the manner he did. And he will have to live all year with that. But there is more blame to go around for GSW. And more importantly--a lot of credit needs to be given to Cleveland who stepped up and won that series. I hope most of hte narrative doesn't become about GSW failure. Cavs earned this title.

[Basileus777]

So I'm the only one who doesn't blame Draymond for costing them the series? Sorry but they had 2 more chances including another home game to wrap that up. And I don't want to hear one word about injury excuses. Maybe with Green there they win it 5, but I think that's far from a guarantee.

Obviously Draymond deserves to take some heat for getting himself needlessly suspended in the manner he did. And he will have to live all year with that. But there is more blame to go around for GSW. And more importantly--a lot of credit needs to be given to Cleveland who stepped up and won that series. I hope most of hte narrative doesn't become about GSW failure. Cavs earned this title.

It's not all on Green, but he probably cost them a crucial game because of a series of dirty plays, which extended the series and gave injuries a chance to hurt them. I'm not interested in making excuses either as I wasn't even invested in the Warriors winning, but the truth is that Bogut getting hurt did cost them game 7. (Though you could blame roster construction there for not having anyone other than Bogut or Green that could be relied on to play center)

And obviously the Cavs deserve all the credit in the world, but it doesn't make Green's mistakes any less season altering. And it's the way he got suspended that makes it harder to forget, it'd be something quite different if he had just missed a game to injury or had a bad game.

[Laimbeer]

Kerr seemed a little out of today. Playing Ezeli and Varajao any minutes in the second was ridiculous.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/warriorsworld/status/744720795570626561[/tweet]

Ezeli is terrible. Some team is apparently going to make a very big mistake this summer.

[Dr Spaceman]

Kerr seemed a little out of today. Playing Ezeli and Varajao any minutes in the second was ridiculous.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/warriorsworld/status/744720795570626561[/tweet]

Ezeli is terrible. Some team is apparently going to make a very big mistake this summer.

No he's not terrible. He's a young inexperienced player who wasn't given room to spread his wings on a team with such high aspirations. LeBron merely took advantage of him not being ready for the moment.

[Sports Realist]

Honestly, this board is looking mighty foolish for giving Curry the POY last season.... I knew it was terrible. People here honestly thought he was better than LeBron, huh?

[SideshowBob]

Thoughts on his defense in the Finals?

I don't know that this was his best defensive series (usually think 13 ECF and Finals), but this was probably the most spectacular and stat-stuffing. 24% DRB rate, 5.9 stocks, 5.9% BLK rate, crazy highlight blocks om Steph and of course the double coverage chasedown on Iggy to save the game.

[RSCD3_]

Thoughts on his defense in the Finals?

I don't know that this was his best defensive series (usually think 13 ECF and Finals), but this was probably the most spectacular and stat-stuffing. 24% DRB rate, 5.9 stocks, 5.9% BLK rate, crazy highlight blocks om Steph and of course the double coverage chasedown on Iggy to save the game.

One of his very very very best. I think this is probably the highest baseline of offense and defense he has managed in a series. Aka +5/+4 and he's never had a series of +5 on both ends even though this might not be his greatest. His defense was the spanner in the works that held a 116 ORTG offense to slightly above average.

Do you have numbers for how many minutes he was either center or PF with love because he played great as a last line of defense on rotations. I wonder what the numbers are.

[Reservoirdawgs]

My unofficial list will be:

1. LeBron
2. Draymond
3. Curry
4. Westbrook
5. Kawhi

I assume Draymond over Curry is due to Curry's six missed postseason games due to injury? If that's your position then that's fine (even if I disagree with that), but what do you think of Green's self-inflicted missed Finals game, which most likely cost them the championship?

[Dr Spaceman]

Thoughts on his defense in the Finals?

I don't know that this was his best defensive series (usually think 13 ECF and Finals), but this was probably the most spectacular and stat-stuffing. 24% DRB rate, 5.9 stocks, 5.9% BLK rate, crazy highlight blocks om Steph and of course the double coverage chasedown on Iggy to save the game.

Not really comfortable saying anything definitive until I watch some tape, but what I'll say: this *felt* like one of the most dominating defensive performances I've seen. Aside from Green springing free for a bunch of open treys in G7, switching LeBron onto Dray in game 3 was the adjustment that won them the series. The Warriors just become another offense when Green isn't causing havoc in the lane, and LeBron switching on Steph became a nightmare scenario for GSW.

It's easy to dismiss the blocks on Steph as "highlight" plays, which we often exercise caution on, but I didn't see them that way. He absolutely massacred Steph's confidence, to the point Curry was refusing to drive the lane for most of the back end of the series. He almost gave up on that play in G7 before the block even happened. Curry couldn't take LeBron off the dribble, and he was so afraid of James flying in off-ball that he was staying out of the paint and pump-faking ghosts when he did go in. That's one of the most underrated aspects of this series IMO, Curry's below the arc game completely died, and it's the main reason he (and GSW) didn't score for like the last 7 minutes of this game.

[MisterHibachi]

Nate Duncan tweeted how freaking scared GS was of LeBron in the paint. On one fast break, Klay didn't know what the hell to do. He wanted to shoot the three but it was a 3 on 1, but the 1 back was LeBron. He took a step inside, saw LeBron and turned it over.

[Dr Spaceman]

Kerr seemed a little out of today. Playing Ezeli and Varajao any minutes in the second was ridiculous.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/warriorsworld/status/744720795570626561[/tweet]

I know this is a popular sentiment but I don't agree. Thompson killed them inside in G6 when nobody put a body on him and this adjustment stymied it. Cavs still had too much rebounding with Love/TT but at least they weren't being alley-ooped to death.

[SideshowBob]

Thoughts on his defense in the Finals?

I don't know that this was his best defensive series (usually think 13 ECF and Finals), but this was probably the most spectacular and stat-stuffing. 24% DRB rate, 5.9 stocks, 5.9% BLK rate, crazy highlight blocks om Steph and of course the double coverage chasedown on Iggy to save the game.

Not really comfortable saying anything definitive until I watch some tape, but what I'll say: this *felt* like one of the most dominating defensive performances I've seen. Aside from Green springing free for a bunch of open treys in G7, switching LeBron onto Dray in game 3 was the adjustment that won them the series. The Warriors just become another offense when Green isn't causing havoc in the lane, and LeBron switching on Steph became a nightmare scenario for GSW.

It's easy to dismiss the blocks on Steph as "highlight" plays, which we often exercise caution on, but I didn't see them that way. He absolutely massacred Steph's confidence, to the point Curry was refusing to drive the lane for most of the back end of the series. He almost gave up on that play in G7 before the block even happened. Curry couldn't take LeBron off the dribble, and he was so afraid of James flying in off-ball that he was staying out of the paint and pump-faking ghosts when he did go in. That's one of the most underrated aspects of this series IMO, Curry's below the arc game completely died, and it's the main reason he (and GSW) didn't score for like the last 7 minutes of this game.

Re: 4th Quarter

That's what happened in games 5 and 6 as well. According to NBA.com, their (GSW) 4th quarter offense in games 5-7 was an 85.9 ORTG (so probably 88-89 by BBR's possessions) and that's WITH their garbage time points in Game 6 after James left the floor. So they must have functioned right around 80.0 with Lebron on the floor for 3 straight games in the 4th, and this was occurring at the same time I observed James playing his best defense (all over the floor, near-perfect execution, secondary rim coverage, blowing up any attempt to move towards the basket, transition hustle obviously, covering Dray + switching onto Curry, the works basically).

That is remarkable, considering most of the praise we will observe for his play will come from the big box-score lines. He out Draymonded Draymond.

[mtron929]

Is it fair to assume that for next year, we absolutely cannot say anything conclusive about the player of the year until Lebron is eliminated from the playoffs?

[MisterHibachi]

Green had great finals? I wouldn't say that. Good, but not great. Roughly the same as he was in RS, or slightly worse. I think game 7 has too much impact on how you perceive him. He was fantastic in game 7, IMO the best player on the court, but he didn't impress me that much in the first 6 games (maybe except for game 2).

Huh what

What?

Sorry lol, I was distracted and skimmed your post. Thought you were saying he had the best game without a doubt. Didn't see the 'IMO'.

[MisterHibachi]

Cavaliers Postseason Adjusted Offense (ORTG minus opp DRTG):

05 PHO +17.0
56 MNL +14.0
01 LAL +13.6
03 POR +13.4
10 PHO +13.4
16 CLE +13.1

Cavaliers Postseason Adjusted Net Rating (Relative Offense + Defense, basically SRS per 100):

01 LAL +20.7
96 CHI +16.9
91 CHI +15.8
16 CLE +15.4

I'm sure you've posted this somewhere, but I missed it. Do you have the final updated numbers for the Cavs? Both relative ORtg and net rating?

[bondom34]

Yeah my unofficial/nearly official ballot is
Lebron
Curry
Westbrook
Kawhi
Durant?

The 5 is still weird, not sure but leaning KD, as I don't know who else to put.

[colts18]

Yeah my unofficial/nearly official ballot is
Lebron
Curry
Westbrook
Kawhi
Durant?

The 5 is still weird, not sure but leaning KD, as I don't know who else to put.

Draymond. He was arguably the most important player for a 73 win team and played amazing in the playoffs. I dont think i could put both Thunder players ahead of him.

[Texas Chuck]

Despite my disdain for Green's cheap shots, the playoffs for me only solidified what a tremendous player he is. The back of my POY ballot is so hard for me to figure out I pretty much just want to slot Lebron and Curry in the first two slots and then give up. How do I get Kawhi, Paul, Draymond, Westbrook, and KD into 3 slots? Leaving any of them out feels wrong. Paul had imo one of the most underrated regular seasons in the last decade, but then got hurt in teh 1st round. Kawhi did nothing to diminish his breakout RS in the playoffs. Durant didn't have his usual efficiency this post-season, but his defense was a significant factor in them beating the Spurs and taking the Warriors to teh brink. Westbrook's season was just mind-blowing and caused this board of all places to re-examine him in a positive light.

I might seriously have to have a top 7 or just a top 2.

[bondom34]

Yeah my unofficial/nearly official ballot is
Lebron
Curry
Westbrook
Kawhi
Durant?

The 5 is still weird, not sure but leaning KD, as I don't know who else to put.

Draymond. He was arguably the most important player for a 73 win team and played amazing in the playoffs. I dont think i could put both Thunder players ahead of him.

I can't put him ahead of either. I didn't have him there regular season, and his suspension and antics cost his team as much as anyone else. I'd be more tempted to put CP3 ahead of KD.

[mikejames23]

I might seriously have to have a top 7 or just a top 2.

I am with this 100%. I don't feel there's a clear cut Top 5, You put LeBron and Curry for the top 2, then it's a fierce debate between Chris Paul, KD, Westbrook, Kawhi. At the very least there's a Top 6, and if you like Draymond enough to give him just as much credit as Curry, there's a clear Top 7.