2016 Draft Thread Part 4

[bwgood77]

I think the major question about Bender is whether he can learn to come off of screens , hit on the move and quicken his gather/setting of feet. That is what allowed KP's game to immediately translate. Right now Bender is limited to wide open stationary spot up/ pick n pop. He has a clean ollow through/wrist flip but his high release has a long windup and he doesn't get much lift on his jumper. He won't that much time to get his shot off against NBA closeouts.

Did you see that video showing how quick his release his now? They called it a strength. I think it was on the 2 minute espn thing.

[bwgood77]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/744976093048766464[/tweet]

Amazed at how different NBA teams are evaluating draft lottery prospects Kris Dunn, Jamal Murray, Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Jaylen Brown & Buddy Hield. Every player is as high as No. 3 on at least one board. As low as No. 8 on at least one board. With that said, it appears Dunn is No. 3 on the most boards right now.
6h

I'm kind of surprised teams would tell him their boards. There is probably no way the lotto teams are telling him their boards though, and only teams well out of range of those guys are sharing their boards of the top guys.

[saintEscaton]

I think the major question about Bender is whether he can learn to come off of screens , hit on the move and quicken his gather/setting of feet. That is what allowed KP's game to immediately translate. Right now Bender is limited to wide open stationary spot up/ pick n pop. He has a clean ollow through/wrist flip but his high release has a long windup and he doesn't get much lift on his jumper. He won't that much time to get his shot off against NBA closeouts.

Did you see that video showing how quick his release his now? They called it a strength. I think it was on the 2 minute espn thing.

He has compact mechanics but they don't look reworked to me. I don't see the lighting fast trigger

[SarcasticSun]

Chriss, Brown, or trade the pick for something good. That's where I'm at.

[carey]

I'm kind of surprised teams would tell him their boards. There is probably no way the lotto teams are telling him their boards though, and only teams well out of range of those guys are sharing their boards of the top guys.

They share their boards, but it's not their actual board. They are lying through their teeth.

[bwgood77]

Chriss, Brown, or trade the pick for something good. That's where I'm at.

Well that's a first.

[NavLDO]

IMO a bouncier Marvin Williams with shot blocking minus intangibles isn't Chriss's floor. He could very well end up being Stromile Swift with a jumper

Thaaaasts it. I've HAD IT!!! I hate this draft spot.

I'm all for swinging for the fences but you still gotta consider opportunity cost and take a calculated risk. The dropoff isn't considerable unless you envision Chriss becoming the lovechild of Prime STAT/Ibaka he's not worth the reach. He could just as easily washout of the league and end up in China if he doesn't put it together before the completion of his rookie contract

So, Sabonis it is then?? Because Dunn (Shooting/Turnovers), Hield (Defense/one-year's production/Versatility), Poeltl (Offensive creativity/FT Shooting), Murray (Athleticism/Defense/Low-release), Ellenson (Athleticism/Physicality), Bender (Weight/Strength/Rebounding-Boxing-out), Skal (Weight/Toughness), Brown (Shooting/BBIQ), Davis (Range/Rim Protecting Awareness/Post-up skills).

Not a single one of these guys doesn't have a major flaw or two, and I think Chriss gets 'beat-up' a little too much on his weaknesses. Not many 18 YO PFs can shoot 35% from 3, 70% FTs. By all rights, wouldn't you expect a 22YO PG to be able to shoot FTs, or 3PT shots better than a 18YO PF, especially a PF that's only played competitively for 4-5 years? Or to have better WS/40, EFF or EFF/40, TO/Pos, or PER numbers? And I know you do not take any stock in OReb, but he was one of the best last year per 40, and there are similar traits, etc. between OReb and DReb. And he does have versatility to defend against 3s or 4s, provided he's coached up some on D.

Chriss is an excellent shooter, shows some skills with BLKS, and out-of-this-world, in-game athleticism (cited as such by many). I know we'd love to see him have better rebounding skills, but I don't see that as much of having an extremely 'low floor' issue, even though I do feel he has a lower floor than most lotto prospects.

I just do not see a valid argument, for any prospect outside the top 2, for being selected ahead of Chriss; again, every prospect has their issues, and do not see Chriss' relative low DReb prowess as being a show-stopper in this relative below-average lotto-prospect-class.

[Kerrsed]

Im still not on the Chriss train.

Would rather get Skal later in the draft than blow #4 on Chriss. I think they are pretty even when it comes to upside and potential, but with Skal being a much better defender/rebounder. They both are going to take years to develop, so i would rather go for the guy with the better all-around game.

[NavLDO]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x__g5WXkA_I[/youtube]

pfffff. Dejounte looks great. i don't think he'll slip to 13, but he might be seriously underrated. like two clicks south of Devin Booker underrated. wouldn't mind that one bit

No thank you. He should've stayed in school to work on his shot. Horrible shooter at all levels--FT, 3PT, 2PT jumpers--all well below average. Not at 13. 28?? Maybe, but just because he's 6'5" and athletic, he had poor A/TO numbers (1.38) and PPR -.85...as a PG. To me, those are serious 'red flags'.

[bwgood77]

Added back poll. You can check Draft Thread 3 to see if the tide has changed much. I may change it to pick 13 later in a couple of days to see what most people want there...or maybe in Draft Thread 5.

[bwgood77]

Im still not on the Chriss train.

Would rather get Skal later in the draft than blow #4 on Chriss. I think they are pretty even when it comes to upside and potential, but with Skal being a much better defender/rebounder. They both are going to take years to develop, so i would rather go for the guy with the better all-around game.

I don't think Skal makes it to 13. It still bothers me that Skal didn't play much for Kentucky. Calipari rarely benches freshmen, especially guys he promises he will make their draft stock as good as possible.

[8on]

ELLENSON IS WINNING THE POLL! We're gonna take him at 4!!!!!!

-Signed,
King of Ellenson Mountain

[SkinnyOMiller]

If they aren't sold on Chriss or Bender then I'd love to see them take Dunn or Murray for someone looking to draft them, have that team draft Sabonis and make a swap for an additional pick or player. Sabonis won't be a great player but he's got low bust potential, he'll be a hard worker with a high basketball IQ, good fundamentals, a solid #4 that can contribute right away as a rookie and one of the "safest" players in the draft, a guy who will find a way to be a positive for his team.

[NavLDO]

Coro's mock has us taking Bender. Not sure how much insight he has.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/06/16/nba-mock-draft-paul-coros-second-edition/85975976/

Chad Ford just said that Bender is more pro ready and better than Chriss in shooting, rebounding, passing and some other things, but Sarver isn't patient and Mc'D job might be on the line, but in the same vein, says we ought to pick Chriss because of his upside!?!

Why would we pick a risky guy who could only be a little better than Bender if he hits his ceiling? Chad Ford has an infatuation with Chriss, not us.


Doesn't make sense.

Who isn't risky??? And please do not say Hield, because one season doesn't make him less risky, and again, history has not been kind to 'one-season-wonders'. NONE of these guys have played against NBA competition, so they are all risky. And Chriss' shooting is nt any more risky than Hields--they both produced for only one year.

As was said on that DX podcast psted earlier today--Hield, nor Chriss, were considered 1st Rd picks last year. Brown and Skal were, but both put up 'duds' for seasons. Jamal Murray exhibited questionable ability to play the Point. I like Ellenson, but his athleticism ha also been questioned. Poeltl might not be strong enough. So on and so forth...they are ALL risky. May as well pick a 'risky' prospect at a position of need.

[batsmasher]

Anyone know how to get DraftExpress' podcast subscription working? My podcast app fails to get it to load cos the RSS is broken.

[NavLDO]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-executives-love-skals-potential/

Sometimes I wonder what makes Marquese Chriss be looked at as a better prospect than Skal Labissiere

Athleticism, 3PT shooting, FT shooting, NBA-ready body, Offensive Rebounding, Assts, STLs, WS/40, EFF/40, PER, so on and so forth, and it's not as if Skal was some elite Rebounder--we're talking about less TRBs and just .9 DReb/40 better than Chriss, so if Chriss is being 'skewered' for his inability to DReb, well, Skal isn't much better.

Again, Chriss isn't some terrible prospect; the level of Chriss hate on this forum is simply, well, just beyond what's necessary, IMO.

[lilfishi22]

Im still not on the Chriss train.

Would rather get Skal later in the draft than blow #4 on Chriss. I think they are pretty even when it comes to upside and potential, but with Skal being a much better defender/rebounder. They both are going to take years to develop, so i would rather go for the guy with the better all-around game.

I'm off the Chriss train. His low D-rebounding right now I can live with but his low BBIQ is confronting. Many things can be taught but BBIQ is one of those things you can only truly develop through years and years of playing structured basketball. Some players just get it, nullifying a relatively short basketball developmental period like Tim Duncan, Hakeem, Amare etc. But the vast majority of players with low bball IQ, whether they played from a young age or not is always a big risk because a lot of times, reaching their potential relies heavily on understanding the game and understanding how to make the most of your natural talents. Chriss has the natural physical talents and has developed well in the 4-5 years he's been playing but his tendency to bite on high foul rate and lack of boxing out tells a lot about his low bbiq and whether it's something he can overcome.

[bwgood77]

Im still not on the Chriss train.

Would rather get Skal later in the draft than blow #4 on Chriss. I think they are pretty even when it comes to upside and potential, but with Skal being a much better defender/rebounder. They both are going to take years to develop, so i would rather go for the guy with the better all-around game.

I'm off the Chriss train. His low D-rebounding right now I can live with but his low BBIQ is confronting. Many things can be taught but BBIQ is one of those things you can only truly develop through years and years of playing structured basketball. Some players just get it, nullifying a relatively short basketball developmental period like Tim Duncan, Hakeem, Amare etc. But the vast majority of players with low bball IQ, whether they played from a young age or not is always a big risk because a lot of times, reaching their potential relies heavily on understanding the game and understanding how to make the most of your natural talents. Chriss has the natural physical talents and has developed well in the 4-5 years he's been playing but his tendency to bite on high foul rate and lack of boxing out tells a lot about his low bbiq and whether it's something he can overcome.

Do you think Amare had a low bbiq?

[darealjuice]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-executives-love-skals-potential/

Sometimes I wonder what makes Marquese Chriss be looked at as a better prospect than Skal Labissiere

Athleticism, 3PT shooting, FT shooting, NBA-ready body, Offensive Rebounding, Assts, STLs, WS/40, EFF/40, PER, so on and so forth, and it's not as if Skal was some elite Rebounder--we're talking about less TRBs and just .9 DReb/40 better than Chriss, so if Chriss is being 'skewered' for his inability to DReb, well, Skal isn't much better.

Again, Chriss isn't some terrible prospect; the level of Chriss hate on this forum is simply, well, just beyond what's necessary, IMO.

I've never once said Chriss was a bad prospect, I'm actually a fan of him and I wasn't trying knock Chriss; I'm just curious why a similar prospect isn't getting similar attention right now. They're both project players with questionable fundamentals that have a lot of upside. In my opinion, Chriss really isn't much further along in terms of basketball skills than Skal is, while Skal has better length and height, similar athleticism, positional versatility, a higher release on his jump shot, and has supposedly been shooting very well from NBA 3 in workouts. To me, the value of Skal at 13 would be higher than Chriss at 4.

[thamadkant]

Im still not on the Chriss train.

Would rather get Skal later in the draft than blow #4 on Chriss. I think they are pretty even when it comes to upside and potential, but with Skal being a much better defender/rebounder. They both are going to take years to develop, so i would rather go for the guy with the better all-around game.

I'm off the Chriss train. His low D-rebounding right now I can live with but his low BBIQ is confronting. Many things can be taught but BBIQ is one of those things you can only truly develop through years and years of playing structured basketball. Some players just get it, nullifying a relatively short basketball developmental period like Tim Duncan, Hakeem, Amare etc. But the vast majority of players with low bball IQ, whether they played from a young age or not is always a big risk because a lot of times, reaching their potential relies heavily on understanding the game and understanding how to make the most of your natural talents. Chriss has the natural physical talents and has developed well in the 4-5 years he's been playing but his tendency to bite on high foul rate and lack of boxing out tells a lot about his low bbiq and whether it's something he can overcome.

Do you think Amare had a low bbiq?

Defensively.. yes.

Offensively... questionable, since he was "good" without Nash, but a top 3 PF with Nash.