Official: Knicks/Bulls: D Rose Traded/Lope Grant Calderon etc

[Mylie10]

I for sure see Dwight going to NY now. Before not so much.

If I'm Chicago I'm needing to go after a solid point guard.

Conley?

Conley would be fantastic with Butler. But everybody and their mother will be going after Conley.

[Dat2U]

Rose was arguably the worst starting non-rookie point guard in the league last year. He's become a volume shooter than doesn't shoot very well and is now one of the worst perimeter defenders in the game. Seems like a huge step forward for the Bulls and a big mistake made by Phil Jackson.

Phil's goal was to make a lot of cap space for next off-season and get a high risk/high reward player, which he got. Seems like a solid trade through and through.

You can keep a lot of cap space by not spending it so this reasoning doesn't make much sense. I get the high risk/reward thing but this wasn't it. Rose hasn't been the same player in 5 years and last year he was one of the worst 'big minute' players in the league. When you add in the NY fans/media expectations, this deal has disaster written all over it, which will be covered in great detail.

[buckboy]

Rose was arguably the worst starting non-rookie point guard in the league last year. He's become a volume shooter than doesn't shoot very well and is now one of the worst perimeter defenders in the game. Seems like a huge step forward for the Bulls and a big mistake made by Phil Jackson.

Phil's goal was to make a lot of cap space for next off-season and get a high risk/high reward player, which he got. Seems like a solid trade through and through.

You can keep a lot of cap space by not spending it so this reasoning doesn't make much sense. I get the high risk/reward thing but this wasn't it. Rose hasn't been the same player in 5 years and last year he was one of the worst 'big minute' players in the league. When you add in the NY fans/media expectations, this deal has disaster written all over it, which will be covered in great detail.

They gained capspace for next summer by including Lopez.

I still say the blow it on Dwight though.

[Soulyss]

I like that both Chicago and NY fans are upset at this trade.

Probably means it was relatively fair.

[OleSchool]

Pretty bummed. I was hoping that Philly would get Rose but, his cost was too high.

[Clyde Frazier]

Pretty distraught right now. It's like isiah is lurking in the shadows or something... RoLo brought so much to the table -- skillset, health, locker room, chemistry with KP and melo. Grant would've had a chance to develop under hornacek. Instead, we hope rose cracks 70 games, and even then we know he's not really AS caliber anymore? So **** deflating... oh and they cut wroten the same day. Watch him end up healthy on another roster next season.

If this signals a noah or dwight signing... even worse.

[jowglenn]

This is going to be one of the greatest offseasons of all time

[Prokorov]

Seems like an overpay for the knicks.... Give up the best player, the best prospect, and and maybe even take on the worst contract. I know rose is a big name, and you hold out hope there is some decent ceiling left for him.... but id think the knicks should have at least extracted the 14 pick or a future #1.

[jowglenn]

With Afflalo and Williams opting out, this puts the Knicks at this:

Rose/Wroten/Holliday/Carmelo/OQuinn/Porzingis for a grand total of like $55 million. The cap is what, 94 million? That's a lot of cap space. I imagine their main target has to be the 2017 free agents though, right? Nah, get what you can while you can. If they can grab Dwight Howard and Dwyane Wade, they would have to be right up there with the Cavs. How insane would that be?

The best move is to sign ONE big free agent long-term, and the obvious choice is Dwight Howard. That's life. But you'll have space for a max (Westbrook?) in 2017 if you sign guys to 1-year deals or 1+1 team optoin deals.

[HartfordWhalers]

With Afflalo and Williams opting out, this puts the Knicks at this:

Rose/Wroten/Holliday/Carmelo/OQuinn/Porzingis for a grand total of like $55 million. The cap is what, 94 million? That's a lot of cap space. I imagine their main target has to be the 2017 free agents though, right? Nah, get what you can while you can. If they can grab Dwight Howard and Dwyane Wade, they would have to be right up there with the Cavs. How insane would that be?

The best move is to sign ONE big free agent long-term, and the obvious choice is Dwight Howard. That's life. But you'll have space for a max (Westbrook?) in 2017 if you sign guys to 1-year deals or 1+1 team optoin deals.

Just made a topic, but Wroten is cut.

[HartfordWhalers]

Pelton out with his grades:
Chicago: B
NYK: D+
http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/16427670/chicago-bulls-trade-derrick-rose-new-york-knicks-nba

[Prokorov]

Another trade I like both ways. Rose fills a need for the Knicks. And he wasn't bad in the second half last year.

And I love the haul for the Bulls. Lopez gives them a reliable presence at C. And it clearly means that Chicago is Butler's team. I can't see them dealing him now.

i dont know about this "wasnt bad in the second half thing"

for one, his Post all-star break was only 20 games. so we are working with a pretty poor sample. he played 45 games pre-allstar. its hard to really say he turned some corner in the second half since his second half consistend of only 1/3 of his season...

add on top of that his final 8 games were really pretty poor. leaving us with basically with 13 games of good play and 53 games of terrible play.

even so, his 21 post-allstar game states arent great:

17 points on 51 TS%, 1.01 PPP, 13.5 PER -4.7 BPM, -4.27 RAPM, 4.6 assists.

its better then the d-league scrub time pre-allstar he had, but anyone who thinks that a decent 13 game stretch undoes such a horrible season, is really trying hard to find some hope

[the_process]

I was thinking that Phil was starting to get them on the right path with the JR Smith trade and the Porzingis pick...

All that's left is a Howard max contract and everything will be right with the world again.

[Prokorov]

This trade was Phil looking into the future. Shedding 27M of Lopez is a big win. He's got a lot of cap space in 2017.

i get that part of it, but couldnt fill move lopez in a salary dump for a late first or pair of seconds... not given up grant and not taken on rose?

[jbk1234]

The Bulls also traded Holiday and a 2nd round pick with Rose which makes me like it more for NY.

[buckboy]

With Afflalo and Williams opting out, this puts the Knicks at this:

Rose/Wroten/Holliday/Carmelo/OQuinn/Porzingis for a grand total of like $55 million. The cap is what, 94 million? That's a lot of cap space. I imagine their main target has to be the 2017 free agents though, right? Nah, get what you can while you can. If they can grab Dwight Howard and Dwyane Wade, they would have to be right up there with the Cavs. How insane would that be?

The best move is to sign ONE big free agent long-term, and the obvious choice is Dwight Howard. That's life. But you'll have space for a max (Westbrook?) in 2017 if you sign guys to 1-year deals or 1+1 team optoin deals.

Rose/Wade/Anthony/Zinger/Dwight is like a 45 win team. That's assuming they can cobble together a bench later. And that may be generous. Prone to injury and horrendous on defense. Away from the rim anyway.

[Reign23]

honestly like it. rose is a low risk move and upgrades the PG positon while remain cap space this year and create even more for next offseason. liked roLo, but he is not a difference maker cause KP is the future center anyway.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Another trade I like both ways. Rose fills a need for the Knicks. And he wasn't bad in the second half last year.

And I love the haul for the Bulls. Lopez gives them a reliable presence at C. And it clearly means that Chicago is Butler's team. I can't see them dealing him now.

i dont know about this "wasnt bad in the second half thing"

for one, his Post all-star break was only 20 games. so we are working with a pretty poor sample. he played 45 games pre-allstar. its hard to really say he turned some corner in the second half since his second half consistend of only 1/3 of his season...

add on top of that his final 8 games were really pretty poor. leaving us with basically with 13 games of good play and 53 games of terrible play.

even so, his 21 post-allstar game states arent great:

17 points on 51 TS%, 1.01 PPP, 13.5 PER -4.7 BPM, -4.27 RAPM, 4.6 assists.

its better then the d-league scrub time pre-allstar he had, but anyone who thinks that a decent 13 game stretch undoes such a horrible season, is really trying hard to find some hope

Its a free gamble for the Knicks. They trade 3 guys who likely will never be anything close to a star for a one year gamble of player who has a much better chance of being a semi star.

[Prokorov]

Another trade I like both ways. Rose fills a need for the Knicks. And he wasn't bad in the second half last year.

And I love the haul for the Bulls. Lopez gives them a reliable presence at C. And it clearly means that Chicago is Butler's team. I can't see them dealing him now.

i dont know about this "wasnt bad in the second half thing"

for one, his Post all-star break was only 20 games. so we are working with a pretty poor sample. he played 45 games pre-allstar. its hard to really say he turned some corner in the second half since his second half consistend of only 1/3 of his season...

add on top of that his final 8 games were really pretty poor. leaving us with basically with 13 games of good play and 53 games of terrible play.

even so, his 21 post-allstar game states arent great:

17 points on 51 TS%, 1.01 PPP, 13.5 PER -4.7 BPM, -4.27 RAPM, 4.6 assists.

its better then the d-league scrub time pre-allstar he had, but anyone who thinks that a decent 13 game stretch undoes such a horrible season, is really trying hard to find some hope

Its a free gamble for the Knicks. They trade 3 guys who likely will never be anything close to a star for a one year gamble of player who has a much better chance of being a semi star.

i disagree they gave up nothing. cause they could have turned lopez or grant into real assets instead of wasting them on Rose.

also what is this gamble on rose? whats his upside? an average point gaurd instead of a bottom 5 PG? whats 1 year of an average PG doing for the knicks, even if they add dwight or something? 42ish wins and a first round exit?

[Prokorov]

honestly like it. rose is a low risk move and upgrades the PG positon while remain cap space this year and create even more for next offseason. liked roLo, but he is not a difference maker cause KP is the future center anyway.

is it a lock thats its a PG upgrade? I mean he was far and away a much more negative impact player last year then calderon. rose will score more, make more plays, but it will also be on a ton more shots, a bunch more empty possesions, negatively effect spacing while he is on the floor, and with less assists/offense creation. more talent doesnt always mean mroe positive impact.

last year only 4 PG's had a worse negative impact then rose and calderon wasnt one of them