Official: Knicks/Bulls: D Rose Traded/Lope Grant Calderon etc

[Smitty731]

Has anyone seen which 2017 pick the Knicks got from Chicago? I'm assuming it is Chicago's if they don't get the Sacramento pick. If they get the Sacramento pick, maybe it is the worst of the two? All that has been reported is "a" 2nd round pick. I'm just trying to close out the bookkeeping a bit.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

i dont know about this "wasnt bad in the second half thing"

for one, his Post all-star break was only 20 games. so we are working with a pretty poor sample. he played 45 games pre-allstar. its hard to really say he turned some corner in the second half since his second half consistend of only 1/3 of his season...

add on top of that his final 8 games were really pretty poor. leaving us with basically with 13 games of good play and 53 games of terrible play.

even so, his 21 post-allstar game states arent great:

17 points on 51 TS%, 1.01 PPP, 13.5 PER -4.7 BPM, -4.27 RAPM, 4.6 assists.

its better then the d-league scrub time pre-allstar he had, but anyone who thinks that a decent 13 game stretch undoes such a horrible season, is really trying hard to find some hope

Its a free gamble for the Knicks. They trade 3 guys who likely will never be anything close to a star for a one year gamble of player who has a much better chance of being a semi star.

i disagree they gave up nothing. cause they could have turned lopez or grant into real assets instead of wasting them on Rose.

also what is this gamble on rose? whats his upside? an average point gaurd instead of a bottom 5 PG? whats 1 year of an average PG doing for the knicks, even if they add dwight or something? 42ish wins and a first round exit?

Real assets like what? They not that valuable of pieces .

Demar Derozan and Kyle Lowry lead a team 50+ team win in the East. I don't see why Anthony, Dwight , KP and Rose couldn't compete with them.

[sportscrazy]

I wonder if the Knicks have any shot at a TPE, 2017 Rockets second round pick and 2017 Bulls second round pick for Greg Monroe deal? I feel like the Knicks could play him well enough to convince him he could get more money by opting out. Definitely a risk because he could opt in and cancel out a chunk of 2017 cap space, but I think his role in the triangle next to Porzingis with 'Melo taking defenders off him would raise his value in an even more raised cap next year that he considers opting out. Then just dump the rest of the cap space for the best shooter that would take 1 year deal like Eric Gordon.

C-Greg Monroe
PF-Kristaps Porzingis
SF-Carmelo Anthony
SG-Eric Gordon
PG-Derrick Rose

With TONS of 2017 cap space to build around 'Melo and Porzingis.

[Knickfan1982]

The Bulls also traded Holiday and a 2nd round pick with Rose which makes me like it more for NY.

So we get a second rounder and a 27 year old guy who will be joining his 5th team in 5 years and it makes the deal more fair? How much of a dumpster fire do you think the trade is to begin with.

I don't think it really helps matters for us much.

[HartfordWhalers]

Has anyone seen which 2017 pick the Knicks got from Chicago? I'm assuming it is Chicago's if they don't get the Sacramento pick. If they get the Sacramento pick, maybe it is the worst of the two? All that has been reported is "a" 2nd round pick. I'm just trying to close out the bookkeeping a bit.

2017 second round draft pick from Chicago
Chicago's 2017 2nd round pick to New York [Chicago-New York, 6/22/2016]

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed



Realgm is beyond amazing at getting this stuff updated asap.

[Knickfan1982]

I was thinking that Phil was starting to get them on the right path with the JR Smith trade and the Porzingis pick...

All that's left is a Howard max contract and everything will be right with the world again.

[jbk1234]

The Bulls also traded Holiday and a 2nd round pick with Rose which makes me like it more for NY.

So we get a second rounder and a 27 year old guy who will be joining his 5th team in 5 years and it makes the deal more fair? How much of a dumpster fire do you think the trade is to begin with.

I don't think it really helps matters for us much.

I think that Calderon + Lopez, before FA starts, is neutral value. So it really comes down to what you think of Grant.

[Prokorov]

Real assets like what? They not that valuable of pieces

real assets like draft picks. ill take capspace and a low first/multiple seconds over cap space + a subpar PG on a 1 year deal.

Demar Derozan and Kyle Lowry lead a team 50+ team win in the East. I don't see why Anthony, Dwight , KP and Rose couldn't compete with them.

Lowry is worlds better then rose. Derozan is light years better then any SG the knicks have. and carrolle/ross/patterson/Val are a solud group of role guys.

Lowry/Derozan is a better top 2 then Melo/Rose, and frankly its not very close either. i dont see the comparison at all.

[thelastpope]

I like it for both teams, if Rose plays well and they sign Dwight Howard, a starting cast of...

Derrick Rose /
Justin Holiday (?) /
Carmelo Anthony /
Kristaps Porzingis /
Dwight Howard / Kyle O'Quinn

... is interesting. The defense with Porzingis and Dwight, along with the play-making of Carmelo is pretty interesting; Derrick Rose could be quite the "X-factor".

Great lineup if it was 2011

[Smitty731]

Has anyone seen which 2017 pick the Knicks got from Chicago? I'm assuming it is Chicago's if they don't get the Sacramento pick. If they get the Sacramento pick, maybe it is the worst of the two? All that has been reported is "a" 2nd round pick. I'm just trying to close out the bookkeeping a bit.

2017 second round draft pick from Chicago
Chicago's 2017 2nd round pick to New York [Chicago-New York, 6/22/2016]

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed



Realgm is beyond amazing at getting this stuff updated asap.

That is generally Howard's job I believe. He's incredible at it!

[DowNY]

Ric Bucher says the Knicks hit a grand slam on the deal.

[sportscrazy]

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm realizing, the Knicks don't have enough cap space to fill starting center, starting shooting guard, back-up power forward, back-up shooting guard and keep Lance Thomas, Langston Galloway, Kyle O'Quinn and Guillermo Hernangomez.

How much should David Lee and Lance Stephenson be expecting to get this summer? They could fill the back-up roles at least possibly for cheap?

[thelastpope]

Another trade I like both ways. Rose fills a need for the Knicks. And he wasn't bad in the second half last year.

And I love the haul for the Bulls. Lopez gives them a reliable presence at C. And it clearly means that Chicago is Butler's team. I can't see them dealing him now.

i dont know about this "wasnt bad in the second half thing"

for one, his Post all-star break was only 20 games. so we are working with a pretty poor sample. he played 45 games pre-allstar. its hard to really say he turned some corner in the second half since his second half consistend of only 1/3 of his season...

add on top of that his final 8 games were really pretty poor. leaving us with basically with 13 games of good play and 53 games of terrible play.

even so, his 21 post-allstar game states arent great:

17 points on 51 TS%, 1.01 PPP, 13.5 PER -4.7 BPM, -4.27 RAPM, 4.6 assists.

its better then the d-league scrub time pre-allstar he had, but anyone who thinks that a decent 13 game stretch undoes such a horrible season, is really trying hard to find some hope

Knicks basically gave up 10+ combine Winshare (Lopez and Calderon) for rose who didn't even have 1.0 Winshare

As people have said

Knicks going to Knick

[Manhattan Project]

Not sure where the same old Knicks comes from. Rose doesn't have a 100 million dollars left on his contract nor did the Knicks give up any first rounders.

[Knickfan1982]

The Bulls also traded Holiday and a 2nd round pick with Rose which makes me like it more for NY.

So we get a second rounder and a 27 year old guy who will be joining his 5th team in 5 years and it makes the deal more fair? How much of a dumpster fire do you think the trade is to begin with.

I don't think it really helps matters for us much.

I think that Calderon + Lopez, before FA starts, is neutral value. So it really comes down to what you think of Grant.

I disagree. Calderon is essentially playing the role of salary filler here. So to me it comes down to whether you think one year of Derrick Rose is worth dumping Lopez and Grant. I don't think he is. I would have been fine with Calderon+Grant for Rose. But I think including Lopez is a really stupid move that we didn't need to make.

[basketballwacko2]

I've got to eat some crow on Rose. I had him as negative value and the Bulls just got a solid center, a rookie contract PG and a pick.

I never thought the Knicks would include Lopez in a deal for Rose. I had them just moving Calderon and the Bulls happy with the cut in salary. This signals to me the knicks are looking to sign a big man.

[taikibansei]

Not sure where the same old Knicks comes from. Rose doesn't have a 100 million dollars left on his contract nor did the Knicks give up any first rounders.

Exactly. He's at worst a one-year rental, setting us up to have a huge amount of cap space in 2017 (when there will be a much better free agent class). Holiday is an underrated pick-up as well. And for all the talk about how bad Rose was last year--and he was bad, don't get me wrong--wait until you see Calderon in a Bull's uniform.

While I really like Lopez (and think he was the best player in this deal), given that the Knicks also just waived Wroten, I have to believe this is just the first of several major acquisitions. So, we'll have to see how things shake out before judging this deal--hope we don't max-out Howard! (That would be a "same old Knicks" move...)

And if Rose sucks? The Knicks can tank, as they still have their first-round pick. I.e., there's no real risk involved in this...unless Grant explodes next year.

[basketballwacko2]

I've got to eat some crow on Rose. I had him as negative value and the Bulls just got a solid center, a rookie contract PG and a pick.

You made a poll option.

I gotta go call my mom!


Also, I think this was bad news for the Celtics and Wolves as I think Butler is even more off the market than ever. Because not only did they deal Rose, but they brought back some veterans in the deal. Chicago is a huge winner in this deal imo.

On the poll!!

[Manhattan Project]

Exactly. He's at worst a one-year rental, setting us up to have a huge amount of cap space in 2017 (when there will be a much better free agent class). Holiday is an underrated pick-up as well. And for all the talk about how bad Rose was last year--and he was bad, don't get me wrong--wait until you see Calderon in a Bull's uniform.

While I really like Lopez (and think he was the best player in this deal), given that the Knicks also just waived Wroten, I have to believe this is just the first of several major acquisitions. So, we'll have to see how things shake out before judging this deal--hope we don't max-out Howard! (That would be a "same old Knicks" move...)

And if Rose sucks? The Knicks can tank, as they still have their first-round pick. I.e., there's no real risk involved in this...unless Grant explodes next year.

The only thing that actually scares me is IF Rose does kill it next year, Id hate to ponder whether or not resigning Rose would be a viable option. Calderon was complete trash you know he'll hit his open three's but that's about it. Lopez is as solid as they come on a friendly contract, but to think we can't replace his production is just silly.

I don't know where the Howard stuff comes from. In the season he was interested in the Knicks and we shot it down. I want absolutely no part of Howard, I'd actually cry if we even entertained him. Id welcome him on a Lopez contract but if I hear his name and max in the same sentence I'll flip.

It's a roll of the dice, but the risk is very low on this move.

[jbk1234]

So we get a second rounder and a 27 year old guy who will be joining his 5th team in 5 years and it makes the deal more fair? How much of a dumpster fire do you think the trade is to begin with.

I don't think it really helps matters for us much.

I think that Calderon + Lopez, before FA starts, is neutral value. So it really comes down to what you think of Grant.

I disagree. Calderon is essentially playing the role of salary filler here. So to me it comes down to whether you think one year of Derrick Rose is worth dumping Lopez and Grant. I don't think he is. I would have been fine with Calderon+Grant for Rose. But I think including Lopez is a really stupid move that we didn't need to make.

This is obviously a move to attract free agents. Whether it pays off depends on whether Phil Jackson is able to do it. Personally, I would have liked the Knicks to go in the other direction, trade Melo, and build around Zinger. I don't know if NYC is the type of market that has the patience for that though.