2016 Draft Thread Part 4

[JMac1]

I love MKG's d but man his shot is broken and I'm not sure it's fixable. I'd rather take a gamble on a guy at 13 than trade it for him. Now if the deal was something like Tucker and 28 then sure bring him in and see if he can be molded into at least a passable offensive player.

I doubt that will do it. Charlotte fans love MKG. On the trade forum someone proposed Noel for MKG and it was the Charlotte fans that were adamantly against it. Philly fans were too, but not to the extent Charlotte ones were.

So they over-value their players too, cool.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Holy S just watched some tape on Kay Felder. Let him have Ronnie's job

Yeah I wouldn't mind him in the 2nd if Payton Jr is gone. I like Felder way more that Ulis.

[bwgood77]

I love MKG's d but man his shot is broken and I'm not sure it's fixable. I'd rather take a gamble on a guy at 13 than trade it for him. Now if the deal was something like Tucker and 28 then sure bring him in and see if he can be molded into at least a passable offensive player.

I doubt that will do it. Charlotte fans love MKG. On the trade forum someone proposed Noel for MKG and it was the Charlotte fans that were adamantly against it. Philly fans were too, but not to the extent Charlotte ones were.

So they over-value their players too, cool.

Yeah, but he is worth more than 28 and Tucker I think. They spent a top 2 or 3 pick on him so they are vested in him like many are here with Len. Plus he has a CRAZY work ethic and he is all about just whatever it takes to win.

[lilfishi22]

What makes you think Chriss has a better chance of reaching the high ceiling? I think with the lower bbiq and more of a questionable work ethic I wouldn't say that.

Chriss's lower bbiq and apparent questionable work ethic (first time I've read about that) should only lower his ceiling. I think there's more question marks around Bender because not only does he have to adjust to a completely different, star-focused NBA game, he'll also have to mature into his 7 foot frame and keep up with the 82 game schedule. Chriss, OTOH, should be better adjusted and played a more similar game in college coming into the NBA. Just in comparison, I just think there Bender will have a steeper learning curve.

Just to be clear, I'm completely OK with a Bender pick now. I just think he has some intangibles which are harder to acquire or develop (length and IQ) than athletic gifts (Chriss's athleticism).

I seriously doubt that. He has been playing basketball with all sorts of players and leagues since he was like 12 and has a very high bbiq already. I think he can probably learn more quickly. The main thing though is that Chriss has a lot more to learn based on his current level of basketball ability. I'll take either at this point though.

It's weird that you hear nothing about Bender though. Makes me wonder if that means the Celtics and us want him or that we have no interest.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Bender's development from a very young age and having been part of youth/professional leagues is nothing new and it's quite common amongst the many players coming from Europe. Very few (I can't think of one off the top of my head) players who did not start playing at a young age, would be playing at a high enough level in Europe to be scouted by the NBA. Historically, the only players even being considered for the draft would've had a wealth of experience from a young age so for Bender to have been playing at a high level since he's 12 doesn't really sway my opinion on his readiness because we've seen more ready players from Euro, fail just the same. All I"m saying is, Bender having played since a young age doesn't necessarily give me comfort that he's anymore ready.

I haven't followed the scouting reports too much this past week but it seems like Bender has dropped down a few spots (DX and nbadraft has him at 7 now) in a number of mocks. Any clue as to why that's happened?

[rsavaj]

Chriss's lower bbiq and apparent questionable work ethic (first time I've read about that) should only lower his ceiling. I think there's more question marks around Bender because not only does he have to adjust to a completely different, star-focused NBA game, he'll also have to mature into his 7 foot frame and keep up with the 82 game schedule. Chriss, OTOH, should be better adjusted and played a more similar game in college coming into the NBA. Just in comparison, I just think there Bender will have a steeper learning curve.

Just to be clear, I'm completely OK with a Bender pick now. I just think he has some intangibles which are harder to acquire or develop (length and IQ) than athletic gifts (Chriss's athleticism).

I seriously doubt that. He has been playing basketball with all sorts of players and leagues since he was like 12 and has a very high bbiq already. I think he can probably learn more quickly. The main thing though is that Chriss has a lot more to learn based on his current level of basketball ability. I'll take either at this point though.

It's weird that you hear nothing about Bender though. Makes me wonder if that means the Celtics and us want him or that we have no interest.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Bender's development from a very young age and having been part of youth/professional leagues is nothing new and it's quite common amongst the many players coming from Europe. Very few (I can't think of one off the top of my head) players who did not start playing at a young age, would be playing at a high enough level in Europe to be scouted by the NBA. Historically, the only players even being considered for the draft would've had a wealth of experience from a young age so for Bender to have been playing at a high level since he's 12 doesn't really sway my opinion on his readiness because we've seen more ready players from Euro, fail just the same. All I"m saying is, Bender having played since a young age doesn't necessarily give me comfort that he's anymore ready.

I haven't followed the scouting reports too much this past week but it seems like Bender has dropped down a few spots (DX and nbadraft has him at 7 now) in a number of mocks. Any clue as to why that's happened?

not sure why he's dropping in mocks but DX still has him as the third best prospect in their top 100; mike schmitz said he still thinks he's the third best guy in the draft longterm

[JMac1]

I doubt that will do it. Charlotte fans love MKG. On the trade forum someone proposed Noel for MKG and it was the Charlotte fans that were adamantly against it. Philly fans were too, but not to the extent Charlotte ones were.

So they over-value their players too, cool.

Yeah, but he is worth more than 28 and Tucker I think. They spent a top 2 or 3 pick on him so they are vested in him like many are here with Len. Plus he has a CRAZY work ethic and he is all about just whatever it takes to win.

Oh, hell yea! I wasn't saying that. He could be worth #4, I just want someone who can be dynamic on both sides of the ball, unless it is a center, then he can be a defensive stud only.

Two-way guys.

Bender
Dunn
Brown
Chriss

Not

Okafor
Murray
Hield (Could be better than expected though)

[lilfishi22]

Perhaps other guys have surprised teams in workouts and moved up

[JMac1]

When you think about it, Chriss might have the highest overall potential on both sides of the ball.

[darealjuice]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/745781214708006912[/tweet]

Yikes if true. We'll trade them Brandon Knight for that pick if they want to feel better

[JMac1]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/Coach16422143/dragan-bender-star-desires-it

[jcsunsfan]

KTAR reported today from people watching Bender's workouts that his lack of physical strength is a bit shocking. He works hard and plays tough, but he is not very strong.

I would think you would say the same thing about Ingram. That kid needs a sandwich.

[lilfishi22]

KTAR reported today from people watching Bender's workouts that his lack of physical strength is a bit shocking. He works hard and plays tough, but he is not very strong.

I would think you would say the same thing about Ingram. That kid needs a sandwich.

Few players at that age matches up well physically with their NBA competition but Bender does have the added advantage of having excellent length which may make up for his lack of strength and his thin profile. Playing with more effort and toughness (as he does) should help him in that respect as well

[bwgood77]

Chriss's lower bbiq and apparent questionable work ethic (first time I've read about that) should only lower his ceiling. I think there's more question marks around Bender because not only does he have to adjust to a completely different, star-focused NBA game, he'll also have to mature into his 7 foot frame and keep up with the 82 game schedule. Chriss, OTOH, should be better adjusted and played a more similar game in college coming into the NBA. Just in comparison, I just think there Bender will have a steeper learning curve.

Just to be clear, I'm completely OK with a Bender pick now. I just think he has some intangibles which are harder to acquire or develop (length and IQ) than athletic gifts (Chriss's athleticism).

I seriously doubt that. He has been playing basketball with all sorts of players and leagues since he was like 12 and has a very high bbiq already. I think he can probably learn more quickly. The main thing though is that Chriss has a lot more to learn based on his current level of basketball ability. I'll take either at this point though.

It's weird that you hear nothing about Bender though. Makes me wonder if that means the Celtics and us want him or that we have no interest.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Bender's development from a very young age and having been part of youth/professional leagues is nothing new and it's quite common amongst the many players coming from Europe. Very few (I can't think of one off the top of my head) players who did not start playing at a young age, would be playing at a high enough level in Europe to be scouted by the NBA. Historically, the only players even being considered for the draft would've had a wealth of experience from a young age so for Bender to have been playing at a high level since he's 12 doesn't really sway my opinion on his readiness because we've seen more ready players from Euro, fail just the same. All I"m saying is, Bender having played since a young age doesn't necessarily give me comfort that he's anymore ready.

I haven't followed the scouting reports too much this past week but it seems like Bender has dropped down a few spots (DX and nbadraft has him at 7 now) in a number of mocks. Any clue as to why that's happened?

Well that happened at least a week ago, but more because the Celtics were rumored to like Brown and the Suns were rumored to like Chriss. Then the Wolves and Pelicans want guards.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bender goes third or fourth but I have no idea what the Celtics or Suns are really thinking.

I always liked Chriss as I was touting him long ago at 13 even though I knew he'd be gone at 8 or 9 back then because he was rising. Chriss and Brown really started rising during workouts and Bender wasn't here. I think that is part of the reason he may have dropped. He just got in late last week.

I just think Bender has many more skills currently. He is a really good passer, perimeter defender, his length is impressive...a really good 2 minute espn feature showed how disruptive his length could be...compared his length to Kawhi....then of course he can hit 3s and block shots.

People have gotten really low on Chriss around here as of late because once it was rumored we would take him people started watching game tape. You might notice by comparing the poll in this thread to the one in draft thread 3.

[bwgood77]

I seriously doubt that. He has been playing basketball with all sorts of players and leagues since he was like 12 and has a very high bbiq already. I think he can probably learn more quickly. The main thing though is that Chriss has a lot more to learn based on his current level of basketball ability. I'll take either at this point though.

It's weird that you hear nothing about Bender though. Makes me wonder if that means the Celtics and us want him or that we have no interest.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Bender's development from a very young age and having been part of youth/professional leagues is nothing new and it's quite common amongst the many players coming from Europe. Very few (I can't think of one off the top of my head) players who did not start playing at a young age, would be playing at a high enough level in Europe to be scouted by the NBA. Historically, the only players even being considered for the draft would've had a wealth of experience from a young age so for Bender to have been playing at a high level since he's 12 doesn't really sway my opinion on his readiness because we've seen more ready players from Euro, fail just the same. All I"m saying is, Bender having played since a young age doesn't necessarily give me comfort that he's anymore ready.

I haven't followed the scouting reports too much this past week but it seems like Bender has dropped down a few spots (DX and nbadraft has him at 7 now) in a number of mocks. Any clue as to why that's happened?

not sure why he's dropping in mocks but DX still has him as the third best prospect in their top 100; mike schmitz said he still thinks he's the third best guy in the draft longterm

Pelton has him 2nd above Ingram though he thinks they are close so he thought Ingram fit better with Lakers in the last mock.

[bwgood77]

So they over-value their players too, cool.

Yeah, but he is worth more than 28 and Tucker I think. They spent a top 2 or 3 pick on him so they are vested in him like many are here with Len. Plus he has a CRAZY work ethic and he is all about just whatever it takes to win.

Oh, hell yea! I wasn't saying that. He could be worth #4, I just want someone who can be dynamic on both sides of the ball, unless it is a center, then he can be a defensive stud only.

Two-way guys.

Bender
Dunn
Brown
Chriss

Not

Okafor
Murray
Hield (Could be better than expected though)

I wouldn't exactly call Brown or Chriss two way guys yet...I guess to a very small extent Chriss has defense just because of blocks and Brown has offense just because of getting to the rim.

And Okafor's interior D might be a tad underrated.

[lilfishi22]

Well that happened at least a week ago, but more because the Celtics were rumored to like Brown and the Suns were rumored to like Chriss. Then the Wolves and Pelicans want guards.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bender goes third or fourth but I have no idea what the Celtics or Suns are really thinking.

I always liked Chriss as I was touting him long ago at 13 even though I knew he'd be gone at 8 or 9 back then because he was rising. Chriss and Brown really started rising during workouts and Bender wasn't here. I think that is part of the reason he may have dropped. He just got in late last week.

I just think Bender has many more skills currently. He is a really good passer, perimeter defender, his length is impressive...a really good 2 minute espn feature showed how disruptive his length could be...compared his length to Kawhi....then of course he can hit 3s and block shots.

People have gotten really low on Chriss around here as of late because once it was rumored we would take him people started watching game tape. You might notice by comparing the poll in this thread to the one in draft thread 3.

I really like Chriss at #13 because he'll be a steal at that position but he'll be gone before then most likely. I was on the Chriss train but I still didn't want to take him at #4. My thought was for us to trade down and pick him up in the 6-9 range. Bender is definitely skilled in more areas than Chriss but I still question his readiness. He's a good passer but will he be at an NBA pace? He's a good perimeter defender but how will he defend against more athletic NBA wings? I feel his only skill that shouldn't be too affected by the NBA competition is his 3PT shooting only because he's got good mechanics and being that tall, he'll be near impossible to block from the 3PT line.

Neither Chriss nor Bender will be playing consistent minutes because neither are quite ready for that but I think Chris will have a faster adjustment period which should mean he should be a little further along in terms of NBA development early onwards.

[Cutter]

If the Suns trade #4 to Philadelphia for Okafor, is that an overpay on the Suns part? Or, does Philly consider Okafor worth more and would want #4 and another asset? I think Okafor is better than any other player we could draft at 4 and would step in and immediately contribute.

From McD's perspective trading for OK4 solves two problems at once. He could help the Suns move towards getting to the playoffs as he is ready to contribute now. Also, he keeps the Suns moving forward with the youth movement as he is 20 years old. McD keeps his job and gets a contract extension in his final year.

I think Ainge would do a #4 for Oak.

[RaisingArizona]

If the Suns trade #4 to Philadelphia for Okafor, is that an overpay on the Suns part? Or, does Philly consider Okafor worth more and would want #4 and another asset? I think Okafor is better than any other player we could draft at 4 and would step in and immediately contribute.

From McD's perspective trading for OK4 solves two problems at once. He could help the Suns move towards getting to the playoffs as he is ready to contribute now. Also, he keeps the Suns moving forward with the youth movement as he is 20 years old. McD keeps his job and gets a contract extension in his final year.

I think Ainge would do a #4 for Oak.

Agreed but what does Ainge have to do about that trade?

[8on]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/insidersuns/status/745767337861668865[/tweet]

why do I get the vibe that this isn't accurate? did anyone hear Gambo say this on the radio?

well.....here goes something

[JMac1]

Yeah, but he is worth more than 28 and Tucker I think. They spent a top 2 or 3 pick on him so they are vested in him like many are here with Len. Plus he has a CRAZY work ethic and he is all about just whatever it takes to win.

Oh, hell yea! I wasn't saying that. He could be worth #4, I just want someone who can be dynamic on both sides of the ball, unless it is a center, then he can be a defensive stud only.

Two-way guys.

Bender
Dunn
Brown
Chriss

Not

Okafor
Murray
Hield (Could be better than expected though)

I wouldn't exactly call Brown or Chriss two way guys yet...I guess to a very small extent Chriss has defense just because of blocks and Brown has offense just because of getting to the rim.

And Okafor's interior D might be a tad underrated.

Potentially. They have exhibited offensive potential, actually more than Bender. Bender is a shooter only as of now. The others have shown the ability to create a shot for themselves. Bender driving to the hoop on a closeout doesn't count for shot creation just in case someone said he has.