Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[gtn130]

EG > Phil Jackson

[BigA]

EG > Phil Jackson

So he's got that going for him. Which is nice.

A cautionary example illustrating that great coaching doesn't necessarily translate to great GMing. Unless Phil can Zen-up Rose to a semblance of what he was earlier in his career.

[payitforward]

Mirotic is actually a good small-ball PF. I think he had to play some 3 last season, because Chi had so many bigs. He's a good 3 point shooter, plays hard, rebounds reasonably well - doesn't look pretty, but gets the job done.

I'm doubtful that Porter will be significantly better than Mirotic. We might be able to get Denzell Valentine with the 14th pick - a real solid player who nails 3's and facially looks even more like Temple than Porter does. Only problem with getting both Mirotic and Valentine - neither has good defensive ability.

Wow -- for my $$ Porter is already better than Mirotic! Keeping in mind that this is a 3 vs. a 4, I'm not sure it's even all that close.

Mirotic did shoot the 3 ball well this year (previous year he shot under 31%). But shot 43% on 2-pointers, he is a poor rebounder (not reasonably good), and so far he does nothing else particularly well either.

I'm kind of amazed that people are still underestimating Porter this way.

This is kinda silly. Every time I dare say that I don't think Porter will be a superstar, you pitch a fit. I said, "I'm doubtful that Porter will be SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than Mirotic." It seems like I have to explain that it means I do think he will be better than Mirotic. I'm not knocking Porter in any way by saying that. Right now, they're about the same. It's not like Mirotic is some old relic; he's just 2 years older than Otto. He is NOT a poor rebounder. You have to consider he played a lot of 3 last season. That's why his rebounding average per 40 minutes decreased from 9.6 to 8.7. He was playing with outstanding rebounders at the 4 and 5 positions, so obviously that cut into the number of rebounds he got. Porter played some 4 last season on a lousy rebounding team and still had only 6.9 per 40. And your attempt to knock Mirotic's scoring efficiency makes no sense because he had the same 56% TS% that Porter had. And as far as overall production, Mirotic had a PER of 15.7 to Otto's 14.4. Again, I'm not knocking Porter by saying he likely won't be SIGNIFICANTLY better than Mirotic. I'm not surprised at your reaction, because you actually said you'd rather have Porter than George shortly before the playoffs. And if you say you still hold that view - after watching the playoffs - I will put you on ignore.

You're going to put me on ignore, Ruz?? I offended you to that degree? Huh. Haven't I also agreed with you about many many opinions and analyses you've posted?

You're right -- Mirotic's rebounding dropped last season; perhaps it will pick up again. I probably shouldn't have made a definitive statement about him as a rebounder. My bad. Then again... his 3-point % that previous season?

I don't dislike Mirotic; I just think Porter is an outstanding young player; he's only 5 months older than Denzel Valentine. And I do think he's significantly better than Mirotic.

Peace, Ruz. Peace.

[Traveyknicks23]

I love that trade for the Bulls, hate it for the Knicks.

No lose situation for the Knicks lol

[verbal8]

I love that trade for the Bulls, hate it for the Knicks.

No lose situation for the Knicks lol

How do you figure that?

[Ruzious]

Wow -- for my $$ Porter is already better than Mirotic! Keeping in mind that this is a 3 vs. a 4, I'm not sure it's even all that close.

Mirotic did shoot the 3 ball well this year (previous year he shot under 31%). But shot 43% on 2-pointers, he is a poor rebounder (not reasonably good), and so far he does nothing else particularly well either.

I'm kind of amazed that people are still underestimating Porter this way.

This is kinda silly. Every time I dare say that I don't think Porter will be a superstar, you pitch a fit. I said, "I'm doubtful that Porter will be SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than Mirotic." It seems like I have to explain that it means I do think he will be better than Mirotic. I'm not knocking Porter in any way by saying that. Right now, they're about the same. It's not like Mirotic is some old relic; he's just 2 years older than Otto. He is NOT a poor rebounder. You have to consider he played a lot of 3 last season. That's why his rebounding average per 40 minutes decreased from 9.6 to 8.7. He was playing with outstanding rebounders at the 4 and 5 positions, so obviously that cut into the number of rebounds he got. Porter played some 4 last season on a lousy rebounding team and still had only 6.9 per 40. And your attempt to knock Mirotic's scoring efficiency makes no sense because he had the same 56% TS% that Porter had. And as far as overall production, Mirotic had a PER of 15.7 to Otto's 14.4. Again, I'm not knocking Porter by saying he likely won't be SIGNIFICANTLY better than Mirotic. I'm not surprised at your reaction, because you actually said you'd rather have Porter than George shortly before the playoffs. And if you say you still hold that view - after watching the playoffs - I will put you on ignore.

You're going to put me on ignore, Ruz?? I offended you to that degree? Huh. Haven't I also agreed with you about many many opinions and analyses you've posted?

You're right -- Mirotic's rebounding dropped last season; perhaps it will pick up again. I probably shouldn't have made a definitive statement about him as a rebounder. My bad. Then again... his 3-point % that previous season?

I don't dislike Mirotic; I just think Porter is an outstanding young player; he's only 5 months older than Denzel Valentine. And I do think he's significantly better than Mirotic.

Peace, Ruz. Peace.

You're safe as long as you don't call Otto better than George. I enjoy reading most of your views, but that would push me over the edge.

[stevemcqueen1]

Over time I have come to appreciate PIF as an iconoclast. I think it is good for the balance of a discussion to have someone give a voice to those positions, and since I almost always have a very orthodox view of the league and the game, I appreciate that someone else lends that perspective to the conversation.

[just1bullet]

Time to blow it all up
Wall to Lakers for Russel Randle and the 2nd pick(Ingram)
Beal sign and trade Gortat with Celts for #3(Jaylen Brown) #16(Wade Baldwin) #31(Stone) and Smart + filler
Morris to Detroit for Stanley Johnson or #18(Brice Johnson)

Smart/Tomas Satoransky/wade Baldwin
Russel/Oubre JR
Brown/Porter/Johnson
Randle/Ingram
Stone
offer Drummond $25mil a year see if Detroit match if not sign 2 big vets

[truwizfan4evr]

That would be some horrible deals for us lol

[Ruzious]

Time to blow it all up
Wall to Lakers for Russel Randle and the 2nd pick(Ingram)
Beal sign and trade Gortat with Celts for #3(Jaylen Brown) #16(Wade Baldwin) #31(Stone) and Smart + filler
Morris to Detroit for Stanley Johnson or #18(Brice Johnson)

Smart/Tomas Satoransky/wade Baldwin
Russel/Oubre JR
Brown/Porter/Johnson
Randle/Ingram
Stone
offer Drummond $25mil a year see if Detroit match if not sign 2 big vets

A little off the wall, but I like the thinking outside the box there. Detroit would match.

[just1bullet]

Reality we are no where close to competing for anything, this core has been together for 3 years and they have gotten worse...time to move on and try again...instead of waiting and rebuilding year by year just knock it out today and see what happens for this year

[Ruzious]

Reality we are no where close to competing for anything, this core has been together for 3 years and they have gotten worse...time to move on and try again...instead of waiting and rebuilding year by year just knock it out today and see what happens for this year

It won't happen, but I can't say I disagree with you. You're likely ahead of the curve.

[payitforward]

...I'm not knocking Porter ...I'm not surprised at your reaction, because you actually said you'd rather have Porter than George shortly before the playoffs. And if you say you still hold that view...I will put you on ignore.

You're going to put me on ignore, Ruz?? I offended you to that degree? Huh. Haven't I also agreed with you about many many opinions and analyses you've posted? ....

You're safe as long as you don't call Otto better than George. I enjoy reading most of your views, but that would push me over the edge.

Otto & George -- a couple of goofy names that ought to be on Sesame Street.

If it'll keep you from putting me on ignore I'll say that Paul George is better than Paul Pierce and George Mikan combined. (note that I'm counting on absolutely nobody -- and especially not gtn -- recognizing the 2d name)

As far as "my views" -- sometimes I annoy myself, to tell the truth. I could use to let well enough alone more often, don't you think? Then again, it's my experience that a person's strengths and weaknesses are usually the same: it's context that makes them positive or negative.

Probably too late for me to change -- some day a person walking past my grave will say to his companion "I'm sure I heard someone arguing in there. Did you hear it?"

[payitforward]

Over time I have come to appreciate PIF as an iconoclast. I think it is good for the balance of a discussion to have someone give a voice to those positions, and since I almost always have a very orthodox view of the league and the game, I appreciate that someone else lends that perspective to the conversation.

Holy moly. I'm blushing, stevie -- thanks.

William Blake once wrote: "Opposition is true friendship."

[Ruzious]

You're going to put me on ignore, Ruz?? I offended you to that degree? Huh. Haven't I also agreed with you about many many opinions and analyses you've posted? ....

You're safe as long as you don't call Otto better than George. I enjoy reading most of your views, but that would push me over the edge.

Otto & George -- a couple of goofy names that ought to be on Sesame Street.

If it'll keep you from putting me on ignore I'll say that Paul George is better than Paul Pierce and George Mikan combined. (note that I'm counting on absolutely nobody -- and especially not gtn -- recognizing the 2d name)

As far as "my views" -- sometimes I annoy myself, to tell the truth. I could use to let well enough alone more often, don't you think? Then again, it's my experience that a person's strengths and weaknesses are usually the same: it's context that makes them positive or negative.

Probably too late for me to change -- some day a person walking past my grave will say to his companion "I'm sure I heard someone arguing in there. Did you hear it?"

Mikan now or in his prime?

And I will not post a video of Billy Joel singing "just the way you are".

[payitforward]

Time to blow it all up
Wall to Lakers for Russel Randle and the 2nd pick(Ingram)
Beal sign and trade Gortat with Celts for #3(Jaylen Brown) #16(Wade Baldwin) #31(Stone) and Smart + filler
Morris to Detroit for Stanley Johnson or #18(Brice Johnson)

Smart/Tomas Satoransky/wade Baldwin
Russel/Oubre JR
Brown/Porter/Johnson
Randle/Ingram
Stone
offer Drummond $25mil a year see if Detroit match if not sign 2 big vets

6 rookies (or maybe 5 depending on which "Johnson"). You are my kind of guy.

Sign me up for those deals, except none of them seem very possible to me:

No way would the Lakers give us Russell, Randle & the #2 for John Wall.
You want to sign 'n trade Beal, and then include Gortat as well, for those 3 picks plus Smart & filler? Why not separate deals for Beal and Gortat? I don't think Boston would do that combo deal.
Detroit isn't going to trade Stanley Johnson or the #18 for Morris. They could have made either of those trades at the deadline this year, but they didn't.
Detroit ain't letting Drummond go.

[payitforward]

Reality we are no where close to competing for anything, this core has been together for 3 years and they have gotten worse...time to move on and try again...instead of waiting and rebuilding year by year just knock it out today and see what happens for this year

It won't happen, but I can't say I disagree with you. You're likely ahead of the curve.

Agreed. And I've been preaching this sermon myself for quite some time.

The problem is that Ernie has so screwed the pooch that even rebuilding from scratch would be difficult if we started today. Obviously we'd want to keep Porter and Oubre. Morris has next to no trade value. For Gortat we'd likely get a mid-R1 pick and a prospect (not a big-time one) plus maybe a late R2 pick. Who knows what Beal's trade value is?

That leaves Wall as (obviously) our biggest trade asset. Your previous post indicates that you are kinda optimistic about what he'd bring back.

Add to that our no picks this year and, I believe, our R2 pick next year also belonging to another team, and rebuilding looks like a long long slog to me. That's what a bad GM with a lot of job security does to you.

[payitforward]

You're safe as long as you don't call Otto better than George. I enjoy reading most of your views, but that would push me over the edge.

Otto & George -- a couple of goofy names that ought to be on Sesame Street.

If it'll keep you from putting me on ignore I'll say that Paul George is better than Paul Pierce and George Mikan combined. (note that I'm counting on absolutely nobody -- and especially not gtn -- recognizing the 2d name)

As far as "my views" -- sometimes I annoy myself, to tell the truth. I could use to let well enough alone more often, don't you think? Then again, it's my experience that a person's strengths and weaknesses are usually the same: it's context that makes them positive or negative.

Probably too late for me to change -- some day a person walking past my grave will say to his companion "I'm sure I heard someone arguing in there. Did you hear it?"

Mikan now or in his prime?

And I will not post a video of Billy Joel singing "just the way you are".

I shoulda known better than to think you wouldn't know who Mikan was. I wonder what that last name was shortened from? He might have been Generation 1 of the Polish Hammer !!

[Ruzious]

Reality we are no where close to competing for anything, this core has been together for 3 years and they have gotten worse...time to move on and try again...instead of waiting and rebuilding year by year just knock it out today and see what happens for this year

It won't happen, but I can't say I disagree with you. You're likely ahead of the curve.

Agreed. And I've been preaching this sermon myself for quite some time.

The problem is that Ernie has so screwed the pooch that even rebuilding from scratch would be difficult if we started today. Obviously we'd want to keep Porter and Oubre. Morris has next to no trade value. For Gortat we'd likely get a mid-R1 pick and a prospect (not a big-time one) plus maybe a late R2 pick. Who knows what Beal's trade value is?

That leaves Wall as (obviously) our biggest trade asset. Your previous post indicates that you are kinda optimistic about what he'd bring back.

Add to that our no picks this year and, I believe, our R2 pick next year also belonging to another team, and rebuilding looks like a long long slog to me. That's what a bad GM with a lot of job security does to you.

I think what's most likely to happen is that Wiz management is going to be content with a goal of trying to make the last playoffs spot every year that we have Wall under contract. Once Wall leaves, they'll finally be forced to rebuild, and it will be ugly. It might be up to the fans to revolt and boycott, but I think there are enough fans that will accept their goal of shooting for mediocrity.

[payitforward]

Ernie has said this a zillion times: "our goal this like every year is to contend for a playoff spot." Reach for the stars, Ernie.