The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4)

[PCProductions]

His peak can reasonably be any of his 2012-14 seasons. Id put 09 below those 3. He had obvious weaknesses that the raw stats dont factor in, namely a post game and 3pt shot. I still think his post game to this day is overrated but his 3pt shot (esp when Ray Ray came over) made him someone who had few weaknesses most notably in the 2014 playoffs (he played great in the finals loss and was much better than his 2013 finals when his last 2 minute stretch of game 6 gets tremendously overrated. 2 awful turnovers and 2 badly missed 3s. His amazing game 7 masks a subpar games 1-6 by his standards).

He had a great defensive series, though. I think that series gets underrated if anything.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

His peak can reasonably be any of his 2012-14 seasons. Id put 09 below those 3. He had obvious weaknesses that the raw stats dont factor in, namely a post game and 3pt shot. I still think his post game to this day is overrated but his 3pt shot (esp when Ray Ray came over) made him someone who had few weaknesses most notably in the 2014 playoffs (he played great in the finals loss and was much better than his 2013 finals when his last 2 minute stretch of game 6 gets tremendously overrated. 2 awful turnovers and 2 badly missed 3s. His amazing game 7 masks a subpar games 1-6 by his standards).

He had a great defensive series, though. I think that series gets underrated if anything.

Yes the 2013 Finals is very underrated imo, I see more criticism for his games 1-6 (which isn't really fair as overall he had good games in game 2, 4 and 6) than praise for what he did right.

Reminder, game 2 was a blowout so he wasn't needed to put up big numbers. Game 1 was a close defensive battle with LeBron still chipping in 10 assists and 18 boards, and I know officiating is something we try to avoid, but San Antonio was getting much more ref love in that series than Miami was, only 10 total free throws for LeBron in the first 4 games of the series.

Game 3 was mediocre, but again, 7 for 21, if he could have gotten to the line *cough* refs *cough* it would have been a decent game, but it didn't really matter because again, massive blowout. Game 4, he was very good, but this is remembered as the Wade game and some of LeBron's numbers came in garbage time.

Game 5 he played decent, only 8 for 22 but got to the line so 25 points, but again another blowout, San Antonio was lights out shooting with Danny Green going 6/10, before disappearing for the rest of the Finals.

And of course, games 6 and 7 he was very good to great, save for some screwups in the last minutes of game 6's 4th quarter.



Also, side note but looking back on this series and 2014, then comparing to 2016, its amazing how much the NBA really is a make or miss league. If Ray Allen misses that 1 shot, 2013 is looked upon totally differently. If Kyrie misses his shot the other night, 2016 is maybe looked at a lot differently. And on a more macro scale, if you swap San Antonio's ungodly hot streak of shooting in 2014 with Golden State in 2016, the Warriors are easily champs while the 2014 series is much closer if not going to Miami. Yes, defense was a factor, but the Warriors missed plenty of open makeable shots in 2016, and the Spurs hit literally everything if you remember the 2014 series, no matter how well defended.

[JulesWinnfield]

He gets knocked for that game 6 vs the Spurs by some, even though that night he had the first 30+ point triple double anyone had ever had in the finals since Barkley 20 years earlier, and one of only 4 in the history of the finals I believe (he may have even done it himself again since then and added to that total, I'm not sure). He was great leading that comeback on both ends of the floor without the headband. The fact that he gets heat for that game in some circles shows you how crazy high the bar is. Yea Ray Allen hit a big shot, bosh had a big rebound, but neither mean a thing if Lebron wasn't insane for much of that 2nd half. And Ray Allen and bosh combined to score as many points in game 7 as I did

[ronnymac2]

I agree LBJ's 2013 NBA Finals gets underrated, starting with Game 1. If Bosh hits that jumper (which IIRC LBJ created for him), Miami wins and we are looking at LBJ as some insane 18/18/11/strong defense monster utility knife. It's only because they lost that he gets criticized. Dude's only truly poor game was Game 3.

[JulesWinnfield]

I really fear KD to the Dubs is going to happen, which is going to make that team impossible to deal with if healthy in an inevitable finals trilogy. And I'm sorry, no mater how much people want to compare this to Lebron going to Miami it would be in a whole different universe. Miami wasn't a 73 win team coming within a minute of back to back titles on top of having beat Lebron in the playoffs the year prior. This has such a "if you can't beat them, join them" feel to it if it happens. He's entitled to do whatever he wants, it's his life. But it comes off as incredibly weak sauce.

[BasketballFan7]

I don't think he will, and won't care if he does. Yeah, they'll be unbeatable. But 73-9 was unbeatable, a 5+ SRS deficit was insurmountable, and coming back from 3-1 was unprecedented.

Bron bron baby

[porcerel]

I really fear KD to the Dubs is going to happen, which is going to make that team impossible to deal with if healthy in an inevitable finals trilogy. And I'm sorry, no mater how much people want to compare this to Lebron going to Miami it would be in a whole different universe. Miami wasn't a 73 win team coming within a minute of back to back titles on top of having beat Lebron in the playoffs the year prior. This has such a "if you can't beat them, join them" feel to it if it happens. He's entitled to do whatever he wants, it's his life. But it comes off as incredibly weak sauce.

A 3-1 lead and one win away from beating a 73 win squad. Joining them (and he has every right in the world to do so) would be beyond weak.

[sixeradelphia]

I really fear KD to the Dubs is going to happen, which is going to make that team impossible to deal with if healthy in an inevitable finals trilogy. And I'm sorry, no mater how much people want to compare this to Lebron going to Miami it would be in a whole different universe. Miami wasn't a 73 win team coming within a minute of back to back titles on top of having beat Lebron in the playoffs the year prior. This has such a "if you can't beat them, join them" feel to it if it happens. He's entitled to do whatever he wants, it's his life. But it comes off as incredibly weak sauce.

I personally don't believe he will or should leave OKC but if he does, I have a gut feeling he would go to the Knicks.

[JulesWinnfield]

I really fear KD to the Dubs is going to happen, which is going to make that team impossible to deal with if healthy in an inevitable finals trilogy. And I'm sorry, no mater how much people want to compare this to Lebron going to Miami it would be in a whole different universe. Miami wasn't a 73 win team coming within a minute of back to back titles on top of having beat Lebron in the playoffs the year prior. This has such a "if you can't beat them, join them" feel to it if it happens. He's entitled to do whatever he wants, it's his life. But it comes off as incredibly weak sauce.

A 3-1 lead and one win away from beating a 73 win squad. Joining them (and he has every right in the world to do so) would be beyond weak.

Exactly. And not to mention i was only talking about the Miami vs golden state aspect of it. The Cleveland vs OKC aspect of it is another differentiating factor. The thunder are obviously a much better cast than Cleveland in 2010 and it's not remotely comparable. He can live his life how he chooses, but the false equivalency we are going to hear about he and Lebron 2010 should this happen is going to be nauseating

[MisterHibachi]

I really doubt it happens. I understand KD is free to make his own decisions, but Nike does have have a voice. I really doubt the green light their second biggest athlete to go and be second fiddle to Under Armour's top athlete (and there's no way KD is gonna be the face of the Warriors over the back to back MVP). Nike has got to have some kind of veto power. Unless they see more money in 10 straight championship even as second fiddle than in New York or LA. In which case, we're all screwed.

[PaulieWal]

I really doubt it happens. I understand KD is free to make his own decisions, but Nike does have have a voice. I really doubt the green light their second biggest athlete to go and be second fiddle to Under Armour's top athlete (and there's no way KD is gonna be the face of the Warriors over the back to back MVP). Nike has got to have some kind of veto power. Unless they see more money in 10 straight championship even as second fiddle than in New York or LA. In which case, we're all screwed.

I don't see KD going to GSW either but come on, you really think they have some kind of veto power over a free agent's decision over where he wants to go? Whether or not KD becomes the face of the Warriors and I agree GSW will be Curry's team unless KD becomes clearly the better player, KD is still a star in his own right and Nike will still benefit from KD being on an even more winning team.

KD going to GSW would make the league kind of boring next year though I do wonder how much of the depth will GSW have to sacrifice to get him.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I hope KD goes east even if it isn't Miami, because LeBron having a free pass to the Finals is getting a bit boring. At least 2011 and 2012 he had to put down the Celtics for good (and a pretty good Bulls team), its basically been trash and pretenders since then. This year was arguably the worst, that Raptors team was perhaps the worst conference finals team I've ever seen since I've been watching basketball and the only thing they did was help to wake the Cavs up a bit with those 2 losses.

[MisterHibachi]

I really doubt it happens. I understand KD is free to make his own decisions, but Nike does have have a voice. I really doubt the green light their second biggest athlete to go and be second fiddle to Under Armour's top athlete (and there's no way KD is gonna be the face of the Warriors over the back to back MVP). Nike has got to have some kind of veto power. Unless they see more money in 10 straight championship even as second fiddle than in New York or LA. In which case, we're all screwed.

I don't see KD going to GSW either but come on, you really think they have some kind of veto power over a free agent's decision over where he wants to go? Whether or not KD becomes the face of the Warriors and I agree GSW will be Curry's team unless KD becomes clearly the better player, KD is still a star in his own right and Nike will still benefit from KD being on an even more winning team.

KD going to GSW would make the league kind of boring next year though I do wonder how much of the depth will GSW have to sacrifice to get him.

Not a straight up veto, but they have to have some sort of influence on his destination. I mean, they can market him anywhere, true, but to be second fiddle to the face of their biggest rival's brand?

But then again, KD is not LeBron, meaning the face of Nike basketball. He's the second star in Nike's hierarchy and doesn't look to be moving up anytime soon and might just move down with AD ascending, so maybe they'll be fine with it. They can view this as hedging their bets and having a Nike athlete on the championship podium no matter what, even if it's behind Under Armour.

To be clear, I would be fine with KD going to GS. I don't think it's even comparable to LeBron's decision, but I think I'll be fine it with it. Not happy about it obviously because they'll pretty much lock up 5 straight titles, health permitting. And it'll certainly make for some exciting basketball. But I really hope he doesn't go there lol.

If he does, it'd be only fair the Spurs trade Kawhi to the Cavs to even it out /green

[PaulieWal]

I really doubt it happens. I understand KD is free to make his own decisions, but Nike does have have a voice. I really doubt the green light their second biggest athlete to go and be second fiddle to Under Armour's top athlete (and there's no way KD is gonna be the face of the Warriors over the back to back MVP). Nike has got to have some kind of veto power. Unless they see more money in 10 straight championship even as second fiddle than in New York or LA. In which case, we're all screwed.

I don't see KD going to GSW either but come on, you really think they have some kind of veto power over a free agent's decision over where he wants to go? Whether or not KD becomes the face of the Warriors and I agree GSW will be Curry's team unless KD becomes clearly the better player, KD is still a star in his own right and Nike will still benefit from KD being on an even more winning team.

KD going to GSW would make the league kind of boring next year though I do wonder how much of the depth will GSW have to sacrifice to get him.

Not a straight up veto, but they have to have some sort of influence on his destination. I mean, they can market him anywhere, true, but to be second fiddle to the face of their biggest rival's brand?

But then again, KD is not LeBron, meaning the face of Nike basketball. He's the second star in Nike's hierarchy and doesn't look to be moving up anytime soon and might just move down with AD ascending, so maybe they'll be fine with it. They can view this as hedging their bets and having a Nike athlete on the championship podium no matter what, even if it's behind Under Armour.

To be clear, I would be fine with KD going to GS. I don't think it's even comparable to LeBron's decision, but I think I'll be fine it with it. Not happy about it obviously because they'll pretty much lock up 5 straight titles, health permitting. And it'll certainly make for some exciting basketball. But I really hope he doesn't go there lol.

If he does, it'd be only fair the Spurs trade Kawhi to the Cavs to even it out /green

I don't know how much influence they really do have but basketball players are the most empowered players (employees) in all of pro-sports. I really don't see a guy like KD getting influenced by Nike.

That being said I also don't think KD going to GSW is comparable to Bron going to Miami. KD already plays with a top 5 guy, Bron was looking another star to play with after playing with underwhelming talent for 7 years. Not to even mention that GSW has a complete team. Miami had nothing on the roster aside from the Big 3 in 2011 and Miller/Haslem were injured.

If Durant does go to the Warriors it does pretty much make the West the same as the East with one clear contender and a bunch of okay-to slightly good teams.

[MisterHibachi]

I know Love is highly unlikely to get traded, but if he was, which trade packages would bring back good/equal value?

[PaulieWal]

I know Love is highly unlikely to get traded, but if he was, which trade packages would bring back good/equal value?

Funny thing, I didn't think KD was leaving until this garbage trade IMO. Where is the spacing now with Dipo, Roberson and Russ on the floor? Don't like this trade one bit.

[RSCD3_]

I know Love is highly unlikely to get traded, but if he was, which trade packages would bring back good/equal value?

Funny thing, I didn't think KD was leaving until this garbage trade IMO. Where is the spacing now with Dipo, Roberson and Russ on the floor? Don't like this trade one bit.

Odd the consensus seems to be Ibaka's return was higher than expected. OKC can't pay everyone, yet they got a great young two for perimeter depth, a floor spacer and a promising young big who can play C

Ibaka also has been on a decline lately.

[te887848]

I really fear KD to the Dubs is going to happen, which is going to make that team impossible to deal with if healthy in an inevitable finals trilogy. And I'm sorry, no mater how much people want to compare this to Lebron going to Miami it would be in a whole different universe. Miami wasn't a 73 win team coming within a minute of back to back titles on top of having beat Lebron in the playoffs the year prior. This has such a "if you can't beat them, join them" feel to it if it happens. He's entitled to do whatever he wants, it's his life. But it comes off as incredibly weak sauce.

A 3-1 lead and one win away from beating a 73 win squad. Joining them (and he has every right in the world to do so) would be beyond weak.

It's his best move by far. Thunder are a flawed team. Only reason they were up 3-1 was due to Curry's injury. They could easily flame out in round 2 next year.

If Durant wants to win, GSW is a far better option than the poorly constructed OKC team.

[JulesWinnfield]

Im not sure what to think about this deal, or more importantly what HE thinks about this deal, but I just see the writing on the wall for him there and hope I'm wrong.... And it's not like OKC is incapable. There is a difference between not having done something and being incapable of doing it. They've had championship caliber teams before, they've just had inopportune injuries at times, and sometimes somebody has to lose. Klay Thompson was out of his mind at the right time, otherwise they are in the finals with a shot. I do think the Cavs would have beaten them but nothing is guaranteed. Only one team can win it every year. They will continue to be in the hunt year in year out if he remains.

[kayess]

Im not sure what to think about this deal, or more importantly what HE thinks about this deal, but I just see the writing on the wall for him there and hope I'm wrong.... And it's not like OKC is incapable. There is a difference between not having done something and being incapable of doing it. They've had championship caliber teams before, they've just had inopportune injuries at times, and sometimes somebody has to lose. Klay Thompson was out of his mind at the right time, otherwise they are in the finals with a shot. I do think the Cavs would have beaten them but nothing is guaranteed. Only one team can win it every year. They will continue to be in the hunt year in year out if he remains.

Edit: Just saw it, though Orlando was robbed of some draft picks or something. I hope they talked to KD beforehand about this, Serge was doing pretty well on Curry on those switches too.