Poll #3 - Who would you have taken at #13?

[nate33]

I'm going to insert a new topic into fishercob's series of poll questions regarding Markieff Morris and other potential trade options. This time, I'd like to see who the board would have picked at #13 if we hadn't traded Morris. To fairly evaluate EG's decision to trade for Morris, we need to explore the alternatives.

The players available at #13 were:

Georgios Papagiannis
Denzel Valentine
Juan Hernangomez
Guerschon Yabusele
Wade Baldwin
Henry Ellenson
Malik Beasley
Caris LeVert
DeAndre Bembry

I think it would be interesting if everybody went on the record and declared who they would have voted for.

[dckingsfan]

I was with PIF's recommendation of trading down for multiple picks...

[Error Afflalo]

Valentine.

[Dat2U]

Honestly I would have selected Deyonta Davis unless I had inside information that he could be had much later and I could acquire another pick. Denzel Valentine would have been a close 2nd choice. Funny that they are both Michigan State guys.

[payitforward]

I already posted what I would have done. Trade 13 to the Sixers for 24 & 26. Pick Brice Johnson at 24. Trade 26 to Boston for 35, 45 & 51. My moves would have gotten us Brice Johnson, Onoku, Kay Felder, Joel Bolomboy.

[gesa2]

Hernangomez. Fills the need for a 4, translations from Spanish League say he's going to be great.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Valentine. Cuz Kevin likes him. Plus I have no idea who most of the other guys are.

[WallToWall]

would trade down a couple spots, if I could, and taken Ellenson.
To be fair though, I say this after the fact of knowing where Ellenson went. But a good GM would know where he would go and trade accordingly.

[DCZards]

I would have taken Malachi Richardson. Love the kid's machismo...as well as his size, handle, shooting and athleticism.

[Ruzious]

I already posted what I would have done. Trade 13 to the Sixers for 24 & 26. Pick Brice Johnson at 24. Trade 26 to Boston for 35, 45 & 51. My moves would have gotten us Brice Johnson, Onoku, Kay Felder, Joel Bolomboy.

That's not one of the choices, though I think you made exceptional choices. I have Felder as the best value pick in the draft - followed by Onuaku. And Bolomboy is very interesting. I'm amazed that we couldn't even manage to buy a pick to get Felder. Milwaukee sold the 38th pick for a little over 2 mil. The Wiz can't ante up for the 50th or so pick? They gave a 35 mil contract for an average NBA coach and can't afford something like 1.5 mil for someone who could be very good cheap labor for several years.

My pick of the players listed in the poll - Ellenson - with Valentine just behind him.

[payitforward]

I already posted what I would have done. Trade 13 to the Sixers for 24 & 26. Pick Brice Johnson at 24. Trade 26 to Boston for 35, 45 & 51. My moves would have gotten us Brice Johnson, Onoku, Kay Felder, Joel Bolomboy.

That's not one of the choices, though I think you made exceptional choices. I have Felder as the best value pick in the draft - followed by Onuaku. And Bolomboy is very interesting. I'm amazed that we couldn't even manage to buy a pick to get Felder. Milwaukee sold the 38th pick for a little over 2 mil. The Wiz can't ante up for the 50th or so pick? They gave a 35 mil contract for an average NBA coach and can't afford something like 1.5 mil for someone who could be very good cheap labor for several years.

My pick of the players listed in the poll - Ellenson - with Valentine just behind him.

Well, it's not one of the choices of the poll. But I asked in another thread what people would have done with that #13 pick if we'd still had it.

To me, that's the real question, because it works off of our real situation -- if we were the GS Warriors and we somehow owned the 13th pick I wouldn't make the same set of moves! But we are the Wizards, a team with 6 players signed for next year, 3 of whom are Beal (about to be waaay overpaid), Morris (not a good player), and Oubre (raw recruit).

Admittedly I get the benefit of looking at what went down, but I can assure you I'd have made both those trades (nor would they have been difficult to make). I'd have been pretty sure Johnson would be there at 24, and I saw R2 as a very rich vein to mine. If Onoaku hadn't been there at #35, I'd likely have taken McCaw. Bolomboy and Felder are both low-cost long shots. But if one of them had already been nabbed when #45 came around, there were very good alternatives -- who knows, Zipser and Hamilton may turn out to be the best of the bunch?

[Ruzious]

I already posted what I would have done. Trade 13 to the Sixers for 24 & 26. Pick Brice Johnson at 24. Trade 26 to Boston for 35, 45 & 51. My moves would have gotten us Brice Johnson, Onoku, Kay Felder, Joel Bolomboy.

That's not one of the choices, though I think you made exceptional choices. I have Felder as the best value pick in the draft - followed by Onuaku. And Bolomboy is very interesting. I'm amazed that we couldn't even manage to buy a pick to get Felder. Milwaukee sold the 38th pick for a little over 2 mil. The Wiz can't ante up for the 50th or so pick? They gave a 35 mil contract for an average NBA coach and can't afford something like 1.5 mil for someone who could be very good cheap labor for several years.

My pick of the players listed in the poll - Ellenson - with Valentine just behind him.

Well, it's not one of the choices of the poll. But I asked in another thread what people would have done with that #13 pick if we'd still had it.

To me, that's the real question, because it works off of our real situation -- if we were the GS Warriors and we somehow owned the 13th pick I wouldn't make the same set of moves! But we are the Wizards, a team with 6 players signed for next year, 3 of whom are Beal (about to be waaay overpaid), Morris (not a good player), and Oubre (raw recruit).

Admittedly I get the benefit of looking at what went down, but I can assure you I'd have made both those trades (nor would they have been difficult to make). I'd have been pretty sure Johnson would be there at 24, and I saw R2 as a very rich vein to mine. If Onoaku hadn't been there at #35, I'd likely have taken McCaw. Bolomboy and Felder are both low-cost long shots. But if one of them had already been nabbed when #45 came around, there were very good alternatives -- who knows, Zipser and Hamilton may turn out to be the best of the bunch?

Unfortunately, we don't know what trades were makable. One would assume Boston would be willing to trade some of their picks just because they already had close to a full roster, and they can't keep everyone. Yet, in the real world, they didn't make a trade - with the 29 teams they could have traded with. They picked some players that they'll likely stash overseas.

Fwiw, I had Felder ahead of fellow tiny guard Tyer Ulis - even though Ulis went 20 picks higher. But I'd rather have Ellenson at 18 than Brice Johnson at 25.

[Dark Faze]

Valentine's the only guy I liked as a mid first guy

[payitforward]

That's not one of the choices, though I think you made exceptional choices. I have Felder as the best value pick in the draft - followed by Onuaku. And Bolomboy is very interesting. I'm amazed that we couldn't even manage to buy a pick to get Felder. Milwaukee sold the 38th pick for a little over 2 mil. The Wiz can't ante up for the 50th or so pick? They gave a 35 mil contract for an average NBA coach and can't afford something like 1.5 mil for someone who could be very good cheap labor for several years.

My pick of the players listed in the poll - Ellenson - with Valentine just behind him.

Well, it's not one of the choices of the poll. But I asked in another thread what people would have done with that #13 pick if we'd still had it.

To me, that's the real question, because it works off of our real situation -- if we were the GS Warriors and we somehow owned the 13th pick I wouldn't make the same set of moves! But we are the Wizards, a team with 6 players signed for next year, 3 of whom are Beal (about to be waaay overpaid), Morris (not a good player), and Oubre (raw recruit).

Admittedly I get the benefit of looking at what went down, but I can assure you I'd have made both those trades (nor would they have been difficult to make). I'd have been pretty sure Johnson would be there at 24, and I saw R2 as a very rich vein to mine. If Onoaku hadn't been there at #35, I'd likely have taken McCaw. Bolomboy and Felder are both low-cost long shots. But if one of them had already been nabbed when #45 came around, there were very good alternatives -- who knows, Zipser and Hamilton may turn out to be the best of the bunch?

Unfortunately, we don't know what trades were makable. One would assume Boston would be willing to trade some of their picks just because they already had close to a full roster, and they can't keep everyone. Yet, in the real world, they didn't make a trade - with the 29 teams they could have traded with. They picked some players that they'll likely stash overseas....

It's true, of course, that we can't know for utterly certain what trades were makable. But, in fact Boston did make a trade of this kind on draft night -- they moved their #31 & #35 R2 picks for a 2019 R1 pick.

Given the concept of 'present value of an asset' I'm pretty sure that #35, 45, & 51 would have looked even better w/ a R1 pick in this year's draft coming for them. After all, now they'd have a better package to move -- you'd likely get a R1 pick sooner than 2019.

Still you are right that no one can claim a counter-factual as if it were empirical.

[Ruzious]

Well, it's not one of the choices of the poll. But I asked in another thread what people would have done with that #13 pick if we'd still had it.

To me, that's the real question, because it works off of our real situation -- if we were the GS Warriors and we somehow owned the 13th pick I wouldn't make the same set of moves! But we are the Wizards, a team with 6 players signed for next year, 3 of whom are Beal (about to be waaay overpaid), Morris (not a good player), and Oubre (raw recruit).

Admittedly I get the benefit of looking at what went down, but I can assure you I'd have made both those trades (nor would they have been difficult to make). I'd have been pretty sure Johnson would be there at 24, and I saw R2 as a very rich vein to mine. If Onoaku hadn't been there at #35, I'd likely have taken McCaw. Bolomboy and Felder are both low-cost long shots. But if one of them had already been nabbed when #45 came around, there were very good alternatives -- who knows, Zipser and Hamilton may turn out to be the best of the bunch?

Unfortunately, we don't know what trades were makable. One would assume Boston would be willing to trade some of their picks just because they already had close to a full roster, and they can't keep everyone. Yet, in the real world, they didn't make a trade - with the 29 teams they could have traded with. They picked some players that they'll likely stash overseas....

It's true, of course, that we can't know for utterly certain what trades were makable. But, in fact Boston did make a trade of this kind on draft night -- they moved their #31 & #35 R2 picks for a 2019 R1 pick.

Given the concept of 'present value of an asset' I'm pretty sure that #35, 45, & 51 would have looked even better w/ a R1 pick in this year's draft coming for them. After all, now they'd have a better package to move -- you'd likely get a R1 pick sooner than 2019.

Still you are right that no one can claim a counter-factual as if it were empirical.

Good catch - I hadn't noticed that. Memphis got those picks cheaply. Ainge did not do well with his cache of picks - for the 2nd straight year. Maybe the problem was his transparency. He said he wanted to trade up, so the poker player GM's wouldn't give him a break. And Jaylen Brown with the 3rd pick? Terrible.

[fishercob]

[closg00]

Beal has missed time every season with fibula issues, I would been happy to snag Valentine and let Beal walk.
Valentine is probably going to be in the Bulls rotation right-away.

Edit: I wasn't familiar with this drafts crop of Centers, I probably would have taken the best Center prospect as-well.

[payitforward]

Unfortunately, we don't know what trades were makable. One would assume Boston would be willing to trade some of their picks just because they already had close to a full roster, and they can't keep everyone. Yet, in the real world, they didn't make a trade - with the 29 teams they could have traded with. They picked some players that they'll likely stash overseas....

It's true, of course, that we can't know for utterly certain what trades were makable. But, in fact Boston did make a trade of this kind on draft night -- they moved their #31 & #35 R2 picks for a 2019 R1 pick.

Given the concept of 'present value of an asset' I'm pretty sure that #35, 45, & 51 would have looked even better w/ a R1 pick in this year's draft coming for them. After all, now they'd have a better package to move -- you'd likely get a R1 pick sooner than 2019.

Still you are right that no one can claim a counter-factual as if it were empirical.

Good catch - I hadn't noticed that. Memphis got those picks cheaply. Ainge did not do well with his cache of picks - for the 2nd straight year. Maybe the problem was his transparency. He said he wanted to trade up, so the poker player GM's wouldn't give him a break. And Jaylen Brown with the 3rd pick? Terrible.

Yeah -- it's great to have multiple picks, but when it's draft day and you have 8 of them!!?? The other GMs watch you squirm, and they get to fleece you a little bit.

I didn't understand the Brown pick -- he shot 29% on 3's, 65% from the line, turned it over 4.5 times per 40 minutes. I assume it's all about freakish athletic potential (i.e. he also got to the line 9+ times per 40).

The other picks also made little sense to me. Yabusele, whom they picked #16, would have been there at #23 where they picked Zizic, who would have been there at #31 !! Jackson might turn out to be a bargain at #45. ... Hard to figure!