The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4)

[VideoGameJames]

Nah, someone made it up on reddit. As for Dion, kinda hoping he walks, would clear some money and honestly Dipo is just better and Hejonza never played which is odd why he'd be more liked (plus he's not nearly the defender), I don't trust he's changed that much yet. He was good for a stretch but if he's not really different its iffy.

Skiles seemed to not like Hezonja, which is why his playing time was limited. He called Hezonja out a lot in the press too. He was pretty good for the most part. Really good shooter, and solid defender at both SG and SF. I remember in a game in early 2016 he had 10 straight in the 4th and then Skiles took him out while Orlando had the lead, which they later blew and then Skiles blamed him for the loss.

Hezonja's 3 years younger and I think he could also play SF for stretches which would give KD/WB more spacing than Roberson provides.

He's also a 2nd year guy who never really played, I don't think we can definitely say he's even any good. He played under 18 mpg and shot almost the exact percentage (.349 to .348) from 3 than Dipo. He's got awful defensive numbers too, I wouldn't think he'd get minutes due to that.

Fair points. From watching him play he looks better than his numbers. You're probably right on Dipo being better at this stage tho.

[bondom34]

Skiles seemed to not like Hezonja, which is why his playing time was limited. He called Hezonja out a lot in the press too. He was pretty good for the most part. Really good shooter, and solid defender at both SG and SF. I remember in a game in early 2016 he had 10 straight in the 4th and then Skiles took him out while Orlando had the lead, which they later blew and then Skiles blamed him for the loss.

Hezonja's 3 years younger and I think he could also play SF for stretches which would give KD/WB more spacing than Roberson provides.

He's also a 2nd year guy who never really played, I don't think we can definitely say he's even any good. He played under 18 mpg and shot almost the exact percentage (.349 to .348) from 3 than Dipo. He's got awful defensive numbers too, I wouldn't think he'd get minutes due to that.

Fair points. From watching him play he looks better than his numbers. You're probably right on Dipo being better at this stage tho.

I don't know if you put much into plus/minus, but check RPM for the 2 players. Lets say VO is.....well ahead.

[VideoGameJames]

He's also a 2nd year guy who never really played, I don't think we can definitely say he's even any good. He played under 18 mpg and shot almost the exact percentage (.349 to .348) from 3 than Dipo. He's got awful defensive numbers too, I wouldn't think he'd get minutes due to that.

Fair points. From watching him play he looks better than his numbers. You're probably right on Dipo being better at this stage tho.

I don't know if you put much into plus/minus, but check RPM for the 2 players. Lets say VO is.....well ahead.

It definitely has value, but its a flawed metric, especially so with limited minutes or when players play in unusual lineups. Stoudemire has a 2.55 DRPM and KAT has a -0.22. That is very different from what I saw of them.

[bondom34]

Fair points. From watching him play he looks better than his numbers. You're probably right on Dipo being better at this stage tho.

I don't know if you put much into plus/minus, but check RPM for the 2 players. Lets say VO is.....well ahead.

It definitely has value, but its a flawed metric, especially so with limited minutes or when players play in unusual lineups. Stoudemire has a 2.55 DRPM and KAT has a -0.22. That is very different from what I saw of them.

RAPM works too. Heck so does a box score.

[JulesWinnfield]

Do we know how many teams won a title going against competition who won more than the 222 combined games the Cavs 4 opponents did? I didn't undertake the most thorough research project, but I was able to find 2 that immediately jumped to mind (95 rockets, 97 bulls). Any others that may come to mind?

[colts18]

Do we know how many teams won a title going against competition who won more than the 222 combined games the Cavs 4 opponents did? I didn't undertake the most thorough research project, but I was able to find 2 that immediately jumped to mind (95 rockets, 97 bulls). Any others that may come to mind?

I didn't count but I would assume the 2006 Heat (beat 2 60+ win teams without HCA) and the 73 Knicks did it (beat 2 60+ win teams without HCA).

[JulesWinnfield]

Do we know how many teams won a title going against competition who won more than the 222 combined games the Cavs 4 opponents did? I didn't undertake the most thorough research project, but I was able to find 2 that immediately jumped to mind (95 rockets, 97 bulls). Any others that may come to mind?

I didn't count but I would assume the 2006 Heat (beat 2 60+ win teams without HCA) and the 73 Knicks did it (beat 2 60+ win teams without HCA).

06 Heat fall short (214).

73 Knicks only played 3 teams so it's apples and oranges, of course they fall short on raw wins. It would have to be in the current playoff format

Pretty certain no one tops clevelands 222 this century. And only one of the Bulls 6 title teams did it (1997). I didn't go through the 80s though.

I'd be pretty sure on betting 222 is the 3rd highest ever, but one example or two might pop up

[Square]

Do we know how many teams won a title going against competition who won more than the 222 combined games the Cavs 4 opponents did? I didn't undertake the most thorough research project, but I was able to find 2 that immediately jumped to mind (95 rockets, 97 bulls). Any others that may come to mind?

I didn't count but I would assume the 2006 Heat (beat 2 60+ win teams without HCA) and the 73 Knicks did it (beat 2 60+ win teams without HCA).

06 Heat fall short (214).

73 Knicks only played 3 teams so it's apples and oranges, of course they fall short on raw wins. It would have to be in the current playoff format

Pretty certain no one tops clevelands 222 this century. And only one of the Bulls 6 title teams did it (1997). I didn't go through the 80s though.

I'd be pretty sure on betting 222 is the 3rd highest ever, but one example or two might pop up

Not an example, since it's before they had four rounds, but the 73 Knicks beat the 52-win Bullets, 68-win Celtics, and 60-win Lakers (average of 60 won games per opponent).

EDIT: whoops, sorry, didn't see that this was brought up already.

[Arman_tanzarian]

Which block was better: the one on Tiago Splitter in 2013 or the the one on Iggy?

Clearly the one on Splitter. To me, the one on Iguodala is pretty overrated. Great block, but he had a lot of more impressive blocks in his younger years, IMO.

Not fair 2013 LeBron was a mutant haha

[JLei]

This is going to be a pretty boring offseason for the Cavs.

JR's contract is going to be pretty interesting. In the mock offseason that Nate Duncan and Kevin Pelton just did they got him at a 3 year 60 million contract. And honestly if you listen to that podcast you are going to be laughing at some of the contracts that will be offered. Too many teams have way too much money.

Cavs pretty much have to keep him but I doubt there are offers like that out there for JR even though some teams might want to mess with the Champs to make them overpay to keep him.

I'm anticipating a 3/45 being a pretty fair offer for both sides and around where he signs but wondering what other teams would pony up more to grab JR.

Other than that, they have the mini mid level which is 3.477 mil which is really small in this environment and then veteran minimum ring chasers. Oh and Cedi Osman might come over (31st pick last year, seems pretty good). Wonder if RJ just comes back for the vet min or asks for a larger salary (using the mini-mid level). He almost retired but then said he'd come back for the repeat, but seems from the playoffs he has plenty left in the tank and teams might offer him 5 mil for 1 season.

Jared Dudley would be ideal but he hasn't made as much money in the league and his recent interviews make it seem like he wants his 1 big contract. Joe Johnson is an interesting one. He's made a crap ton of money and almost signed with the Cavs mid season last year. But he did choose Miami because he likely wanted to show case for this year's free agency. Unlikely that he is coming either.

Lol just heard part 2 of the podcast. The Delly contract might also be pretty ugly. 4/55 is what they are settling on. The Cavs in the mock offseason declined to match.

[RSCD3_]

This is going to be a pretty boring offseason for the Cavs.

JR's contract is going to be pretty interesting. In the mock offseason that Nate Duncan and Kevin Pelton just did they got him at a 3 year 54 million contract. And honestly if you listen to that podcast you are going to be laughing at some of the contracts that will be offered. Too many teams have way too much money.

Cavs pretty much have to keep him but I doubt there are offers like that out there for JR even though some teams might want to mess with the Champs to make them overpay to keep him.

I'm anticipating a 3/45 being a pretty fair offer for both sides and around where he signs but wondering what other teams would pony up more to grab JR.

Other than that, they have the mini mid level which is 3.477 mil which is really small in this environment and then veteran minimum ring chasers. Oh and Cedi Osman might come over (31st pick last year, seems pretty good). Wonder if RJ just comes back for the vet min or asks for a larger salary (using the mini-mid level). He almost retired but then said he'd come back for the repeat, but seems from the playoffs he has plenty left in the tank and teams might offer him 5 mil for 1 season.

Jared Dudley would be ideal but he hasn't made as much money in the league and his recent interviews make it seem like he wants his 1 big contract. Joe Johnson is an interesting one. He's made a crap ton of money and almost signed with the Cavs mid season last year. But he did choose Miami because he likely wanted to show case for this year's free agency. Unlikely that he is coming either.

Rj said at the parade if the cavs fans wanted him to play one more yea he would. Him going to another team do more money after that seems fake.

[JulesWinnfield]

Just bring JR back. They don't need to add anything to be a better team next year.... 2 years under their belt as a team together now and the experience of going through this championship run just leads to enhanced chemistry.... better defined roles and comfort in said roles along with further growth for Kyrie... Even when baking into the cake that Lebron will gradually decline, they should be a better team going forward. That doesn't guarantee titles, but I doubt the 2016 Cavs are the best cav team we will see in the Lebron part 2 era. Not to mention now they'll have a full year with the coach they want to play for rather than the dynamic the past couple years. Arrow is pointing up. Stay healthy, keep the team intact, hope the Warriors don't get Durant, and I like their chances. Healthy golden state will still be a tough obstacle, but no title is ever easy.

[BasketballFan7]

Bringing over Osman would be nice. I like both he and Jordan McRae as wings who could take minutes from RJ or make Shumpert expendable.

[Superbasketball]

Cavs have a trade exception+Cedi and could make a go for Lance Stephenson. Should just bring Cedi over if they aren't going to trade him this year need all the bodies they can use.

[Dupp]

Don't see any need for lance at all. Doubt lebron would want to play with his as well.
He requires far too much work.

[JordansBulls]

Do you see the Cavs trading Love? Maybe a swap with the Clippers for Blake Griffin perhaps?

[Superbasketball]

Actually Memphis declined his contract so he is a free agent.

[Dupp]

Do you see the Cavs trading Love? Maybe a swap with the Clippers for Blake Griffin perhaps?

1) No we won't trade Love.

2) Love have no where the value Blake has who is one of the the most valuable players in the nba. We'd have to trade lebron to get Blake.

[JulesWinnfield]

I think love is a bit underrated at this point. Top 10 rpm guy this past year. The spacing he provides from the 4 spot in conjunction with his ability to pound the boards really make him a unique piece that allows Cleveland to really reach some incredible heights when operating fully healthy. Let's not forget they were on pace to break the O-rating record for a postseason prior to the finals, and finished last year (2015) like 38-3 when the big 3 were all in the lineup together. Love was a factor in both those things.....

But the dilemma comes from the fact that they probably don't even need him to win the East, he's just an added luxury at present time if they're otherwise healthy. He comes in handy in getting them over the top against the Western representative, but he's just a terrible matchup against the team who is currently the most likely to keep repping the west in the finals (Golden State). It's just a bizarre situation. I'd like to see them keep him though. But if your season is going to come down to beating golden state, you can probably be better by tinkering. I don't know if you can build your team with that line of thinking though, focusing so narrowly on one matchup against a team who is not even in your conference

[JulesWinnfield]

Richard Jefferson won't retire, it's official. Nice news assuming he stays. I'm still awed by the amount of athleticism he has retained at this age. He was such an upgrade over Shawn Marion in that role a year ago. Let's just hope he doesn't fall off a cliff though which can happen overnight at this point in someone's career