League source: Bulls talking Taj trade

[dice]

It's about time taj gets traded, maybe a year late. We all appreciate his hard work, but he just hasn't done enough...

nobody's calling him a star. and thus he never would have gotten the return of a star in a trade. but he's done more than enough. always overachieved

[tedwilliams1999]

Do you think the addition of Barnes would drastically change our defensive outlook for next season? A line-up consisting of Grant/Butler/Barnes/Niko/RoLo doesn't sound so bad on paper. Our bench would obviously still be pretty weak defensively, with McDermott/Valentine/Portis/Calderon though...

It's entirely dependent on minutes distribution. I see more one-way players than two-way guys into that rotation, so I would hazard a guess that the rotation you outlined would struggle to be better than average.

I'd cautiously think you'd be looking at the 16-20th best D in the league.

I think that's probably a fair assumption. In order to improve more than that, we'd still need one additional two-way wing, and we'd have to project defensive improvement from our younger players over time. If we can end up with a defense that ranks some where in the #16-20 range, I'd hope that our offense would be able to rank in the #12-20 range next season. After that, we might have a team that has a ton of youth, but still has managed to win 35-42 games.

I'm not sure if that's an environment that would be appealing to a max level free agent in 2017, but there might be a lot of room for optimism if we can see how our young players develop through out the season. In the scenario where we sign Barnes, hopefully one of Barnes/Niko/Valentine/Portis/Grant can show us that they can be more than just a role player. If not, I'd probably get on board with starting a complete rebuild.

[kingkirk]

Calderon's not getting 48 minutes either.

Rough Math from last season:
Rose = 32 MPG
Brooks = 16 MPG

Jose was at 28 MPG. Even at that elevated level we are projecting 20 Minutes of PG play with:

Jimmy
Moore (?)
Grant
Dinwiddie
Valentine

^ all of whom are better than Rose and Brooks defensively.

I think Jose doesn't cross 24 minutes per game with us.

This thread is about trading Taj. Any gains you get from not having Rose and Brooks defensively at point guard for 48 minutes will be offset by losing Gibson up front and giving more minutes to Portis and Mirotic at power forward. There's also been reports that McDermott will see more minutes at power forward, which will be a disaster.

Without Noah last, the team's defense was a mess. It was bottom 10 for the last couple months of the season. I'm seeing anything to suggest anything is going to drastically change that.

[kingkirk]

I think that's probably a fair assumption. In order to improve more than that, we'd still need one additional two-way wing, and we'd have to project defensive improvement from our younger players over time. If we can end up with a defense that ranks some where in the #16-20 range, I'd hope that our offense would be able to rank in the #12-20 range next season. After that, we might have a team that has a ton of youth, but still has managed to win 35-42 games.

I'm not sure if that's an environment that would be appealing to a max level free agent in 2017, but there might be a lot of room for optimism if we can see how our young players develop through out the season. In the scenario where we sign Barnes, hopefully one of Barnes/Niko/Valentine/Portis/Grant can show us that they can be more than just a role player. If not, I'd probably get on board with starting a complete rebuild.

I think there's a good chance that all of Barnes, Niko, Denzel, Portis & Grant can become quality rotational pieces. I think maybe 2 of those guys, possibly 3 if lucky, become 2-way players.

Of that group, I only see 1 who can become an All-Star (Niko).

In a vacuum, I like every single one of these guys, but as a mix, I don't love it and I don't see it producing an elite offense to offset the likelihood of the Bulls being average at best on defense next season.

[MeloRoseNoah]

If they trade Taj, they better not add long term salary.

Butler and a bunch of role players isn't winning anything. Neither is Butler, maxed Barnes, and role players.

If they aren't blowing it up then they need to be prepping space to go after All-Stars or Superstars.

Why does it matter if they add any long term salary or not? We're not going to get any quality FA period at our current level.

I want the best deal for Taj Gibson. If we get decent role players, I want to flip those decent players for picks. If we suck major balls by the trading deadline, I'm hoping that we flip Lopez and Calderon for picks.

[Lotty8989]

If they trade Taj, they better not add long term salary.

Butler and a bunch of role players isn't winning anything. Neither is Butler, maxed Barnes, and role players.

If they aren't blowing it up then they need to be prepping space to go after All-Stars or Superstars.

Why does it matter if they add any long term salary or not? We're not going to get any quality FA period at our current level.

I want the best deal for Taj Gibson. If we get decent role players, I want to flip those decent players for picks. If we suck major balls by the trading deadline, I'm hoping that we flip Lopez and Calderon for picks.

if???? I'm sorry but it's almost a 4 sure thing we will be pretty bad this year hope I'm wrong tho

[RakimAbdulJabar]

I'd be all for trading Taj and Snell to the Warriors for Livingston and Speights.

Bulls finally get a big PG that can defend, and Speights is basically swapping out defense for offense in comparison to Taj which doesn't necessarily help in the big picture BUT the guy can score and this team will need to add scoring with Gasol/Rose no longer on the roster

Happy for them to include Ezeli instead of Speights, either way I'd be OK with that

[Just_Bullz]

We should try to trade him for a 2017 draft pick. Rebuild our team via the draft if possible.

[Southpaw]

I like it because it's pointing to a tanking season. Next to be traded would probably be MDJ then Calderon. Run with Jimmy and the young ones, see what we have. Get a top 5 pick in the process. Hopefully by next offseason we have Jimmy, a top 5 pick, developed young players, 2 max FA slots and maybe the SAC pick to sign or trade for a star.

I like tanking, but I think if you want to be attractive to a couple max deal kind of guys next summer, exactly what you shouldn't do is tank imo. Taj will expire anyway, they don't have to move him. I think it would be a trade for an expiring, but they must want to fill some kind of need they see on the roster in order. I guess you are making room for Mirotic, Portis, and the newfangled 4 man Dougie, but also give the free agency targets a reason to come. I don't think those kinds of guys look at rookies too much, so tanking is a bad move for the 2017 plan.

I agree that top FAs don't consider much who the rookies are when signing with a team, but it's an added asset that the FO can use to entice a star to sign here. Say a disgruntled star (Cousins, Davis, Paul, Wall as examples) asks for a trade next summer, a top 5 pick plus our young players hopefully developed would be a nice package to offer. We'd still have cap space to sign a max FA.

[DroseReturnChi]

If they trade Taj, they better not add long term salary.

Butler and a bunch of role players isn't winning anything. Neither is Butler, maxed Barnes, and role players.

If they aren't blowing it up then they need to be prepping space to go after All-Stars or Superstars.

Why does it matter if they add any long term salary or not? We're not going to get any quality FA period at our current level.

I want the best deal for Taj Gibson. If we get decent role players, I want to flip those decent players for picks. If we suck major balls by the trading deadline, I'm hoping that we flip Lopez and Calderon for picks.

Because we will become a treadmill team if we add salaries like Barnes for 23mil. Plus, if we use cap space too much, we can't get the 2017 free agent class. Adding longer terms will force us out of contending top 5 draft pick next year too.

[Chitownbulls]

Why would the Warriors trade us Livingston? Hes a major player for them. Speights isnt that much worse than Taj. Stop over valuing our players

[RebuildaBulls]

First round pick or young talent, if not just keep him

[Pillendreher]

McGary and Ilyasova for cap relief?

[Ice the knees]

Nice, 3 years too late. Probably can get a late first or second rounder for him. But even that would be tough.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

McGary and Ilyasova for cap relief?

We could use Payne.

[Pillendreher]

McGary and Ilyasova for cap relief?

We could use Payne.

Who couldn't?

[Ice Man]

Probably can get a late first or second rounder for him. But even that would be tough.

When the trade deadline comes around, a contender will be happy to swap its 1st rounder for a good rotation big. Plus maybe throw in something extra. Most of what's out there during the midyear is crap ... GS wouldn't have LOVED to have had Taj rather than Varejao as its midyear pickup. Hell, it might have won the title that way.

So let's play out the first half of the year, then deal him at then. No need to rush this.

[DarthDiggler69]

Our interior defence is going to be complete trash.

It could be better with Lopez. I live in NYC so I get to watch the Knicks from time to time, he was a big reason why their defense improved. I used to think he was a bum but I gained alot of respect for him after watching him for a year. Hes going to help the interior defense a ton, similar to Noah in 2014.

Offensively he has a dependable hook shot, sets hard screens and he makes his free throws.

Total team player and plays with fire, fun guy to watch. I was interested to see how good our defense would be with Taj and Lopez but we will probably never know.

[musiqsoulchild]

Calderon's not getting 48 minutes either.

Rough Math from last season:
Rose = 32 MPG
Brooks = 16 MPG

Jose was at 28 MPG. Even at that elevated level we are projecting 20 Minutes of PG play with:

Jimmy
Moore (?)
Grant
Dinwiddie
Valentine

^ all of whom are better than Rose and Brooks defensively.

I think Jose doesn't cross 24 minutes per game with us.

This thread is about trading Taj. Any gains you get from not having Rose and Brooks defensively at point guard for 48 minutes will be offset by losing Gibson up front and giving more minutes to Portis and Mirotic at power forward. There's also been reports that McDermott will see more minutes at power forward, which will be a disaster.

Without Noah last, the team's defense was a mess. It was bottom 10 for the last couple months of the season. I'm seeing anything to suggest anything is going to drastically change that.

It is about Taj - remember the point was that the defense would be "absolute trash" if Taj is traded.

I am saying that because we won't have to play Rose + Pau for 32+ MPG and THEN follow that up with a nice dose of Brooks + Whoever, we'll actually improve on interior defense.

That's not to say the defense wouldnt be better with Taj. Of course it would be. But trading him doesn't cause the defense to trash because of the improvement at PG spot and at the C spot.

[Ice the knees]

Probably can get a late first or second rounder for him. But even that would be tough.

When the trade deadline comes around, a contender will be happy to swap its 1st rounder for a good rotation big. Plus maybe throw in something extra. Most of what's out there during the midyear is crap ... GS wouldn't have LOVED to have had Taj rather than Varejao as its midyear pickup. Hell, it might have won the title that way.

So let's play out the first half of the year, then deal him at then. No need to rush this.

You are right on the timing of things, can't disagree with you there. But I don't agree with the fact GSW would have loved Taj over Sideshow. Sideshow looked quick and energetic. I don't see that in Taj's game any longer. To me Taj now lumbers around the court after injuries and age have gotten to him. He's no longer a terror in the open court nor do I consider him a big that likes to get out and run. I really don't even see him as a rim protector anymore from the help side, he doesn't have that quickness left. He also cannot switch out on guards any longer. He's just been injured and he's on the backside of his career, it's the way she goes.

He's a great finisher in the paint and to me his bread and butter in this league right now is a back to the basket player who is patient and will work to get position. He's not the passer, not a great spot up shooter, and not very athletic any longer. I'm not so sure that teams see him the way most Bulls fans see him.