Not Robs fault, we were unlucky here is why

[mhectorgato]

I don't blame anyone. You're either the Cavs, Warriors, Thunder, and Spurs, or you're one of the other 26. We're one of the other 26.

We didn't luck out and draft a superstar, nor do any superstars want to come here. We can either whine and cry for another season (half this board will), or just relax and accept being 1 of the other 26 (what the other half will do).

I don't know wtf Hennigan or any other GM was really supposed to do. Our biggest player signing in the last 4 years was probably Channing **** ing Frye. No one wanted to play here.

At least with Ibaka, we finally got someone that people actually know. It's a start.

However, there's an appreciable difference between accepting that you are one of the rest and being proactive to change your status.

imo, this was the first move that is a serious proactive attempt to change our place.

Agreed. Ibaka is not the type of player we could've traded for until now, simply because we had neither the assets nor the type of team around him that would entice him to re-sign.

We've come a long way since the post-Dwight dismantling. Still a ways to go, but I'm liking the progress.

Not sure that I entirely agree with this -- Are you saying no other teams would have been interested in trading up for our #2, #4 and other picks?

Most of the moves Henny has made were "organic" and, as drsd puts it, "money ball" driven.

[MagicMadness]

However, there's an appreciable difference between accepting that you are one of the rest and being proactive to change your status.

imo, this was the first move that is a serious proactive attempt to change our place.

Agreed. Ibaka is not the type of player we could've traded for until now, simply because we had neither the assets nor the type of team around him that would entice him to re-sign.

We've come a long way since the post-Dwight dismantling. Still a ways to go, but I'm liking the progress.

Not sure that I entirely agree with this -- Are you saying no other teams would have been interested in trading up for our #2, #4 and other picks?

Most of the moves Henny has made were "organic" and, as drsd puts it, "money ball" driven.

Not necessarily that no team would've been interested in our picks, rather that it might've been difficult to entice an Ibaka to not only be motivated to play here (if we traded picks for him), but want to stay here as well. I feel like Hennigan was sort of in a Catch-22 situation.

[mhectorgato]

Agreed. Ibaka is not the type of player we could've traded for until now, simply because we had neither the assets nor the type of team around him that would entice him to re-sign.

We've come a long way since the post-Dwight dismantling. Still a ways to go, but I'm liking the progress.

Not sure that I entirely agree with this -- Are you saying no other teams would have been interested in trading up for our #2, #4 and other picks?

Most of the moves Henny has made were "organic" and, as drsd puts it, "money ball" driven.

Not necessarily that no team would've been interested in our picks, rather that it might've been difficult to entice an Ibaka to not only be motivated to play here (if we traded picks for him), but want to stay here as well. I feel like Hennigan was sort of in a Catch-22 situation.

I can see where you're coming from - but that catch22 don't make me buy "it's not Robs fault things haven't panned out".

Many of his other decisions were predicated on our draft picks turning out to be all-stars. It seems as if he put all our eggs in one basket. Look our 1st coach. Many of our trades have been to get expirings back.

The only long-term step forward moves prior to Thursday was to extend Vuc and sign Vogel, imo. Skiles, while he's a borderline "big name" coach, had a history shortish tenures with him burning bridges to players/mgmt.

In summary, if you're going to focus on 1 aspect primarily to grow your team, then you have to accept responsibility if, largely for us in retrospect, it wasn't placed in a lucrative source.

This isn't specific to us, look at the Philly situation with Hinkie (granted there were some "interesting" selections made in the draft).

[Ballah]

Rob hasn't made a single real mistake, he's done the best job possible with the choices he's been given. You can argue that taking Dipo instead of Gianis was a big mistake, but it's not like the guy went number 3. He went 15th, that's a lot of people that passed on him, and it's not like he's some kind of superstar anyways. Rob has made a lot of great trades that looked bad at first and turned out to be genius moves in retrospect, i believe he just made another one in landing Ibaka. Our situation is the result entirely of having mediocre picks in bad drafts, nothing more.

[mhectorgato]

Rob hasn't made a single real mistake, he's done the best job possible with the choices he's been given. You can argue that taking Dipo instead of Gianis was a big mistake, but it's not like the guy went number 3. He went 15th, that's a lot of people that passed on him, and it's not like he's some kind of superstar anyways. Rob has made a lot of great trades that looked bad at first and turned out to be genius moves in retrospect, i believe he just made another one in landing Ibaka.

Not sure how there can be "genius" moves when the team you assembled goes:
1) sub .500 for 4 straight seasons
2) has worst 3 year run in our 25+ yr history
3) not making the playoffs in weak east
4) none of your picks have made it (yet) the all-star game

He may not have made any mistakes, but he has yet hit any home runs yet either.

Our situation is the result entirely of having mediocre picks in bad drafts, nothing more.

If he depended on 1 avenue primarily to improve the team, and it doesn't work out, then it's his "fault" - fair or not. He's the one taking that (well?) calculated risk - so if it turns out, then he's a genius. If not, then we're a middling team (as we are now).

But the fact is that he made the choice to grow "organically". He's the captain of the ship - if it sinks because he chose a poor route, then it's his fault, not the ocean.

[G-Heel]

So, when moves made by Hennigan pan out, he's a genius - but when things don't work out he's a victim of bad luck? Lol ok.

Mhectorgato already pointed out what kind of results Hennigan has achieved, so I'm not going to go into detail. Just want to know how much longer should we use the bad luck excuse for Hennigan?

[OrlDave]

Rob hasn't made a single real mistake, he's done the best job possible with the choices he's been given. You can argue that taking Dipo instead of Gianis was a big mistake, but it's not like the guy went number 3. He went 15th, that's a lot of people that passed on him, and it's not like he's some kind of superstar anyways. Rob has made a lot of great trades that looked bad at first and turned out to be genius moves in retrospect, i believe he just made another one in landing Ibaka.

Not sure how there can be "genius" moves when the team you assembled goes:
1) sub .500 for 4 straight seasons
2) has worst 3 year run in our 25+ yr history
3) not making the playoffs in weak east
4) none of your picks have made it (yet) the all-star game

He may not have made any mistakes, but he has yet hit any home runs yet either.

Our situation is the result entirely of having mediocre picks in bad drafts, nothing more.

If he depended on 1 avenue primarily to improve the team, and it doesn't work out, then it's his "fault" - fair or not. He's the one taking that (well?) calculated risk - so if it turns out, then he's a genius. If not, then we're a middling team (as we are now).

But the fact is that he made the choice to grow "organically". He's the captain of the ship - if it sinks because he chose a poor route, then it's his fault, not the ocean.

Couple things. First the East is no longer the weaker conference, at least from a entrance into the playoffs. To make the playoffs in the West took 41 wins, East 44. And yes it sucks we had a long rebuild. But the Magic were really, really lucky the previous two Finals teams. They had a bad year and got the best big man since Wilt in Shaq, then just missed the playoff and got Penny. That's luck. Then we were bad a single season and got one of the better bigs in the last 20 years. That again, is luck. We could have ended up with the #2 pick and Okafor, or even worse not trusted our scouts and picked Okafor #1. So yeah, compared to our extremely lucky history, this is a bad stretch, but I think this team will make the playoffs this year barring injuries. If we don't, I'll be right there on the Fire Henny bandwagon with the rest of you.

[OrlDave]

Rob hasn't made a single real mistake, he's done the best job possible with the choices he's been given. You can argue that taking Dipo instead of Gianis was a big mistake, but it's not like the guy went number 3. He went 15th, that's a lot of people that passed on him, and it's not like he's some kind of superstar anyways. Rob has made a lot of great trades that looked bad at first and turned out to be genius moves in retrospect, i believe he just made another one in landing Ibaka. Our situation is the result entirely of having mediocre picks in bad drafts, nothing more.

As a big Rob supporter, I won't say he's made no mistakes. Trades are hard because you don't know what other options were available, it's easy to speculate, but you'll never know. Drafts are easier since you know for sure who we missed on.

Draftwise he's been solid. Dipo vs. Gobert and Gianis. Huge props to Utah getting Gobert at 27. He didn't miss much in 2012 except Draymond Green and I give him a pass since he was on the job like 2 weeks. 2014 he was solid, I still think AG might be the best player in that draft and I expect Elf to bounce back. 2015 it's too early to tell. There are guys I like below Mario, but Mario's ceiling is still higher than anyone besides Towns or Porzingis imo. So he's done a good job drafting.

His trading has be hit or miss. Dwight, JJ and Afflalo trades were all good. The Harris trade was just odd and I still think Skiles directed it. The Ibaka trade has the potential to be great or disastrous, only time will tell. There were other minor trades like Channing and Napier, meh.

Free agency has been fairly bad. Frye, Ben Gordon were just pass-throughs. Ridnour and Willie were just minimum pickups. CJ should have been good, but he struggled, but he should thrive under Vogel again. Didn't get Milsap. We won't need to wait long to see what he does this year. Edit: Forgot Jason Smith who was pretty good.

So overall I think he's done pretty well, especially draftwise.

[mhectorgato]

Rob hasn't made a single real mistake, he's done the best job possible with the choices he's been given. You can argue that taking Dipo instead of Gianis was a big mistake, but it's not like the guy went number 3. He went 15th, that's a lot of people that passed on him, and it's not like he's some kind of superstar anyways. Rob has made a lot of great trades that looked bad at first and turned out to be genius moves in retrospect, i believe he just made another one in landing Ibaka.

Not sure how there can be "genius" moves when the team you assembled goes:
1) sub .500 for 4 straight seasons
2) has worst 3 year run in our 25+ yr history
3) not making the playoffs in weak east
4) none of your picks have made it (yet) the all-star game

He may not have made any mistakes, but he has yet hit any home runs yet either.

Our situation is the result entirely of having mediocre picks in bad drafts, nothing more.

If he depended on 1 avenue primarily to improve the team, and it doesn't work out, then it's his "fault" - fair or not. He's the one taking that (well?) calculated risk - so if it turns out, then he's a genius. If not, then we're a middling team (as we are now).

But the fact is that he made the choice to grow "organically". He's the captain of the ship - if it sinks because he chose a poor route, then it's his fault, not the ocean.

Couple things. First the East is no longer the weaker conference, at least from a entrance into the playoffs. To make the playoffs in the West took 41 wins, East 44.

True about the West v East. I guess what stuck out in my mind it's about the top teams out West being much better compared the top East teams. Out west you had 3 (maybe 4) powerful teams that dominated their conference, and most of the league.

But your point still stands.

So yeah, compared to our extremely lucky history, this is a bad stretch, but I think this team will make the playoffs this year barring injuries. If we don't, I'll be right there on the Fire Henny bandwagon with the rest of you.

I'm not on the fire Henny wagon (yet). As much as it hurts to let Dipo go, I'm glad we're making some real pro-active team advancing moves, rather than a "passive let's wait and see" attitude that we had for several seasons now.

For me, this is the first time it feels like the front office really gives a hoot about winning. As a fan that's what you want/expect from your FO. Sure they publically stated it, but this shows they are willing to make difficult decisions and trade a fan favorite to fill a need.

[fendilim]

I've said this before, we simply didnt tank hard enough to be able to land a top pick. The only luck we got was during the Oladipo year, and it was a really really weak draft.

We alwayshalf-assed tank relying on pingpong balls instead rather than guranteeing our odds to be a lot higher by trying to lose more. If we wanted a nice rebuild, we should have gone the Sixers route.

Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

[OrlDave]

I've said this before, we simply didnt tank hard enough to be able to land a top pick. The only luck we got was during the Oladipo year, and it was a really really weak draft.

We alwayshalf-assed tank relying on pingpong balls instead rather than guranteeing our odds to be a lot higher by trying to lose more. If we wanted a nice rebuild, we should have gone the Sixers route.

Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

You probably aren't wrong, but to be fair there really was only one franchise guy in the 3 years we drafted high and that was Towns. Porzingis, Wiggins and Aaron could be, time will tell. Just a bad few years draft wise.

Edit: I will mention that Gobert and Giannis can be as well, but they weren't locks before the draft since neither went top 10.

Edit 2: You guys remember the Exum hype? Good times... good times.

[fendilim]

I've said this before, we simply didnt tank hard enough to be able to land a top pick. The only luck we got was during the Oladipo year, and it was a really really weak draft.

We alwayshalf-assed tank relying on pingpong balls instead rather than guranteeing our odds to be a lot higher by trying to lose more. If we wanted a nice rebuild, we should have gone the Sixers route.

Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

You probably aren't wrong, but to be fair there really was only one franchise guy in the 3 years we drafted high and that was Towns. Porzingis, Wiggins and Aaron could be, time will tell. Just a bad few years draft wise.

Edit: I will mention that Gobert and Giannis can be as well, but they weren't locks before the draft since neither went top 10.

Edit 2: You guys remember the Exum hype? Good times... good times.

too early to judge exum.

Bad years? I think this we messed up not being able to draft Jabari or Wiggins.

Not ending up with Porzingis also disrupted the plan. Ola would likely still be here if we ended up with zinger.

[SOUL]

AG > Jabari, Wiggins

[OrlDave]

I've said this before, we simply didnt tank hard enough to be able to land a top pick. The only luck we got was during the Oladipo year, and it was a really really weak draft.

We alwayshalf-assed tank relying on pingpong balls instead rather than guranteeing our odds to be a lot higher by trying to lose more. If we wanted a nice rebuild, we should have gone the Sixers route.

Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

You probably aren't wrong, but to be fair there really was only one franchise guy in the 3 years we drafted high and that was Towns. Porzingis, Wiggins and Aaron could be, time will tell. Just a bad few years draft wise.

Edit: I will mention that Gobert and Giannis can be as well, but they weren't locks before the draft since neither went top 10.

Edit 2: You guys remember the Exum hype? Good times... good times.

too early to judge exum.

Bad years? I think this we messed up not being able to draft Jabari or Wiggins.

Not ending up with Porzingis also disrupted the plan. Ola would likely still be here if we ended up with zinger.

Really missing Porzingis was the biggest loss. I think we did fine with Dipo and AG in the other two drafts looking at the other choices.

[BadMofoPimp]

I've said this before, we simply didnt tank hard enough to be able to land a top pick. The only luck we got was during the Oladipo year, and it was a really really weak draft.

We alwayshalf-assed tank relying on pingpong balls instead rather than guranteeing our odds to be a lot higher by trying to lose more. If we wanted a nice rebuild, we should have gone the Sixers route.

Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

You probably aren't wrong, but to be fair there really was only one franchise guy in the 3 years we drafted high and that was Towns. Porzingis, Wiggins and Aaron could be, time will tell. Just a bad few years draft wise.

Edit: I will mention that Gobert and Giannis can be as well, but they weren't locks before the draft since neither went top 10.

Edit 2: You guys remember the Exum hype? Good times... good times.

I know it is early, but Exum looks bad out there before he got injured last season. He practically has no offensive game at times.

[eyriq]

We need a superstar and with the win now move of trading for Ibaka I think we feel we have that player in Gordon or Payton or Hezonja. I'm now fully expecting us to bring in an entirely new bench rotation in free agency and for us to stand pat with Gordon and Payton starting.

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