Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[deneem4]

Gortat >>> Monroe

Gortat for Monroe and MCW...
Il rather have Monroe he fits our needs better
MCW can anchor the 2nd unit

MCW with Wall is simply not enough shooting at the PG position. MCW isn't even really good at anything point guard related aside from being long and somewhat athletic. I'd still not even consider that deal.

MCW can play an Evan turner role with the 2nd unit

[Arsenal]

Nerlens Noel for Otto Porter.

You can go with a front line of Noel/Morris and shift Gortat to the bench. Then you can sign a FA SF to replace Porter before resigning Beal.

For the Sixers, Porter seems to be an ideal fit with Simmons in the front court.

Would the Wizards do this?

[fishercob]

Nerlens Noel for Otto Porter.

You can go with a front line of Noel/Morris and shift Gortat to the bench. Then you can sign a FA SF to replace Porter before resigning Beal.

For the Sixers, Porter seems to be an ideal fit with Simmons in the front court.

Would the Wizards do this?

No interest.

Much more interest in a S&T of Beal to Philly.

[Ruzious]

I think for Monroe to be really effective, you have to run your offense through him - much like G-Town ran their "Princeton offense" through him. He's an excellent passer if used that way. But do any NBA teams still run their offense through their center? Actually, GS does sometimes, but I don't see any team being willing to try it with Monroe.

[gtn130]

Seriously what reason is there for us to max Beal? Just the optics of pretending our former #3 pick is a franchise altering player? We're literally going to max out a league average player who is consistently injured and on a minutes restriction. He has potential to improve, but that simply does not justify the cost.

We could easily, easily let him walk and sign someone of similar impact for a fraction of the cost.

[gtn130]

I think for Monroe to be really effective, you have to run your offense through him - much like G-Town ran their "Princeton offense" through him. He's an excellent passer if used that way. But do any NBA teams still run their offense through their center? Actually, GS does sometimes, but I don't see any team being willing to try it with Monroe.

I think it's a function of the player personnel in the league and less about basketball philosophy. There's little doubt offense would run through Shaq or Hakeem if they were still around, and I think Minnesota will build its offense around KAT eventually. There simply aren't many elite offensive centers today.

I definitely don't think Monroe is good enough to warrant that, and what you're pointing out seems to be a main reason why he's borderline unplayable in a lot of different contexts.

[deneem4]

I think for Monroe to be really effective, you have to run your offense through him - much like G-Town ran their "Princeton offense" through him. He's an excellent passer if used that way. But do any NBA teams still run their offense through their center? Actually, GS does sometimes, but I don't see any team being willing to try it with Monroe.

I think it's a function of the player personnel in the league and less about basketball philosophy. There's little doubt offense would run through Shaq or Hakeem if they were still around, and I think Minnesota will build its offense around KAT eventually. There simply aren't many elite offensive centers today.

I definitely don't think Monroe is good enough to warrant that, and what you're pointing out seems to be a main reason why he's borderline unplayable in a lot of different contexts.

Monroe like many other traditional centers honestly jus need shooters around him...bucks is literally the worst team he can be on right now...

We don't have the greatest cast of shooters but we have some and we also have a legit point guard...not Greek freak or jennings...Monroe hasn't been in a situation that's supporting for him..and he still has put up good numbers...

He has some faults defensively but it's not because of his effort...
Il take Monroe over gortat any day...Monroe can create good shots for himself..we need that

[gtn130]

I think for Monroe to be really effective, you have to run your offense through him - much like G-Town ran their "Princeton offense" through him. He's an excellent passer if used that way. But do any NBA teams still run their offense through their center? Actually, GS does sometimes, but I don't see any team being willing to try it with Monroe.

I think it's a function of the player personnel in the league and less about basketball philosophy. There's little doubt offense would run through Shaq or Hakeem if they were still around, and I think Minnesota will build its offense around KAT eventually. There simply aren't many elite offensive centers today.

I definitely don't think Monroe is good enough to warrant that, and what you're pointing out seems to be a main reason why he's borderline unplayable in a lot of different contexts.

Monroe like many other traditional centers honestly jus need shooters around him...bucks is literally the worst team he can be on right now...

We don't have the greatest cast of shooters but we have some and we also have a legit point guard...not Greek freak or jennings...Monroe hasn't been in a situation that's supporting for him..and he still has put up good numbers...

He has some faults defensively but it's not because of his effort...
Il take Monroe over gortat any day...Monroe can create good shots for himself..we need that

You're severely understating his problems on defense. He's not a rim protector and necessitates a two big lineup with a very particular player next to him. He isn't versatile, he can't switch on defense, he gets abused by small lineups. He's simply not a very good player in this era.

[Dat2U]

I think it's a function of the player personnel in the league and less about basketball philosophy. There's little doubt offense would run through Shaq or Hakeem if they were still around, and I think Minnesota will build its offense around KAT eventually. There simply aren't many elite offensive centers today.

I definitely don't think Monroe is good enough to warrant that, and what you're pointing out seems to be a main reason why he's borderline unplayable in a lot of different contexts.

Monroe like many other traditional centers honestly jus need shooters around him...bucks is literally the worst team he can be on right now...

We don't have the greatest cast of shooters but we have some and we also have a legit point guard...not Greek freak or jennings...Monroe hasn't been in a situation that's supporting for him..and he still has put up good numbers...

He has some faults defensively but it's not because of his effort...
Il take Monroe over gortat any day...Monroe can create good shots for himself..we need that

You're severely understating his problems on defense. He's not a rim protector and necessitates a two big lineup with a very particular player next to him. He isn't versatile, he can't switch on defense, he gets abused by small lineups. He's simply not a very good player in this era.

And I think you're greatly overstating his flaws. No, he's not the ideal rim protector but you make him out to be a complete sieve which he is not. He'd work better with a defensive big beside him but he IS a good player.

[gtn130]

Monroe like many other traditional centers honestly jus need shooters around him...bucks is literally the worst team he can be on right now...

We don't have the greatest cast of shooters but we have some and we also have a legit point guard...not Greek freak or jennings...Monroe hasn't been in a situation that's supporting for him..and he still has put up good numbers...

He has some faults defensively but it's not because of his effort...
Il take Monroe over gortat any day...Monroe can create good shots for himself..we need that

You're severely understating his problems on defense. He's not a rim protector and necessitates a two big lineup with a very particular player next to him. He isn't versatile, he can't switch on defense, he gets abused by small lineups. He's simply not a very good player in this era.

And I think you're greatly overstating his flaws. No, he's not the ideal rim protector but you make him out to be a complete sieve which he is not. He'd work better with a defensive big beside him but he IS a good player.

He's a "good" player only in the same way that Enes Kanter is a "good" player. They both need to be put in a very specific positions in order to not be negative players. If you ask them to anchor your defense, you lose.

If we're talking about 25 minutes off the bench with the right lineup, that could work.

[deneem4]

I think it's a function of the player personnel in the league and less about basketball philosophy. There's little doubt offense would run through Shaq or Hakeem if they were still around, and I think Minnesota will build its offense around KAT eventually. There simply aren't many elite offensive centers today.

I definitely don't think Monroe is good enough to warrant that, and what you're pointing out seems to be a main reason why he's borderline unplayable in a lot of different contexts.

Monroe like many other traditional centers honestly jus need shooters around him...bucks is literally the worst team he can be on right now...

We don't have the greatest cast of shooters but we have some and we also have a legit point guard...not Greek freak or jennings...Monroe hasn't been in a situation that's supporting for him..and he still has put up good numbers...

He has some faults defensively but it's not because of his effort...
Il take Monroe over gortat any day...Monroe can create good shots for himself..we need that

You're severely understating his problems on defense. He's not a rim protector and necessitates a two big lineup with a very particular player next to him. He isn't versatile, he can't switch on defense, he gets abused by small lineups. He's simply not a very good player in this era.

He's playing with Jabari Parker one of the worse forwards in the league defensively...
Jabari can never stay with opposing pf...

If he needed a 2 big lineup Greek would be perfect as the shot blocking 4.. But that's not goin to work cause Jabari can't guard SF...bring Henson in same result...

Kanter was considered in the exact same boat as Monroe look at him now

[Dat2U]

You're severely understating his problems on defense. He's not a rim protector and necessitates a two big lineup with a very particular player next to him. He isn't versatile, he can't switch on defense, he gets abused by small lineups. He's simply not a very good player in this era.

And I think you're greatly overstating his flaws. No, he's not the ideal rim protector but you make him out to be a complete sieve which he is not. He'd work better with a defensive big beside him but he IS a good player.

He's a "good" player only in the same way that Enes Kanter is a "good" player. They both need to be put in a very specific positions in order to not be negative players. If you ask them to anchor your defense, you lose.

If we're talking about 25 minutes off the bench with the right lineup, that could work.

Again you overstate this. There are advanced stats that show Kanter as the worst defensive center in the game by a decent margin. Which despite his offensive skill makes him a net negative on the court. Monroe is basically an average defensive big. Not great but not terrible either. Monroe is a decent starter IMO, a flawed but solid player.

[deneem4]

And I think you're greatly overstating his flaws. No, he's not the ideal rim protector but you make him out to be a complete sieve which he is not. He'd work better with a defensive big beside him but he IS a good player.

He's a "good" player only in the same way that Enes Kanter is a "good" player. They both need to be put in a very specific positions in order to not be negative players. If you ask them to anchor your defense, you lose.

If we're talking about 25 minutes off the bench with the right lineup, that could work.

Again you overstate this. There are advanced stats that show Kanter as the worst defensive center in the game by a decent margin. Which despite his offensive skill makes him a net negative on the court. Monroe is basically an average defensive big. Not great but not terrible either. Monroe is a decent starter IMO, a flawed but solid player.

Which brings me to my next point
Did u know we was bottom 10 in ppp before the break? With gortat manning the paint
Had the 3rd worse defensive fg%...
With gortat manning the paint?

We finished 5th best in def rating since we picked morris up...after being 20th for the 1st half of the season...

Not saying gortat is a bad defender but our defense didn't come together until we got Morris
Gortat can be replaced even if his replacement isn't as good defensively because gortat isn't our defensive anchor...period..

[gtn130]

And I think you're greatly overstating his flaws. No, he's not the ideal rim protector but you make him out to be a complete sieve which he is not. He'd work better with a defensive big beside him but he IS a good player.

He's a "good" player only in the same way that Enes Kanter is a "good" player. They both need to be put in a very specific positions in order to not be negative players. If you ask them to anchor your defense, you lose.

If we're talking about 25 minutes off the bench with the right lineup, that could work.

Again you overstate this. There are advanced stats that show Kanter as the worst defensive center in the game by a decent margin. Which despite his offensive skill makes him a net negative on the court. Monroe is basically an average defensive big. Not great but not terrible either. Monroe is a decent starter IMO, a flawed but solid player.

Yes, Kanter is the worst PnR defender in the game, an overall negative and is a lot worse than Monroe, but that doesn't refute anything I'm saying. Kanter isn't asked to anchor the defense -- he's asked to score off the bench vs backup bigs where he won't get torched as badly. OKC made it work, and OKC was very good with Kanter on the court (123 ORtg/ 105 DRtg).

The lack of versatility of players like Kanter and Monroe is a big part of the reason they're not very good players in the NBA. The fact that Monroe is a well below average rim protector, can only play one position, and needs a specific cast of teammates in order to not be fully exploited is what minimizes his value in the league.

[Dat2U]

He's a "good" player only in the same way that Enes Kanter is a "good" player. They both need to be put in a very specific positions in order to not be negative players. If you ask them to anchor your defense, you lose.

If we're talking about 25 minutes off the bench with the right lineup, that could work.

Again you overstate this. There are advanced stats that show Kanter as the worst defensive center in the game by a decent margin. Which despite his offensive skill makes him a net negative on the court. Monroe is basically an average defensive big. Not great but not terrible either. Monroe is a decent starter IMO, a flawed but solid player.

Which brings me to my next point
Did u know we was bottom 10 in ppp before the break? With gortat manning the paint
Had the 3rd worse defensive fg%...
With gortat manning the paint?

We finished 5th best in def rating since we picked morris up...after being 20th for the 1st half of the season...

Not saying gortat is a bad defender but our defense didn't come together until we got Morris
Gortat can be replaced even if his replacement isn't as good defensively because gortat isn't our defensive anchor...period..

Gortat is solid but not many players can do it alone. Defense is a team game. You had Dudley at PF, Porter with early season struggles, Beal who was a complete sieve & literally a train wreck at backup C when Nene was out.

[deneem4]

Again you overstate this. There are advanced stats that show Kanter as the worst defensive center in the game by a decent margin. Which despite his offensive skill makes him a net negative on the court. Monroe is basically an average defensive big. Not great but not terrible either. Monroe is a decent starter IMO, a flawed but solid player.

Which brings me to my next point
Did u know we was bottom 10 in ppp before the break? With gortat manning the paint
Had the 3rd worse defensive fg%...
With gortat manning the paint?

We finished 5th best in def rating since we picked morris up...after being 20th for the 1st half of the season...

Not saying gortat is a bad defender but our defense didn't come together until we got Morris
Gortat can be replaced even if his replacement isn't as good defensively because gortat isn't our defensive anchor...period..

Gortat is solid but not many players can do it alone. Defense is a team game. You had Dudley at PF, Porter with early season struggles, Beal who was a complete sieve & literally a train wreck at backup C when Nene was out.

And that's the point...Monroe can't do it by himself he's an average defensive c at best...but Morris has shown elite potential whether guarding lebron Melo etc...Monroe didn't have that in Milwaukee with Parker... gortat didn't have that before the trade and the results are on record...

We need more help offensively than defensively right now...and the free agent market has some good defensive centers available...
but we will be better off with Noah and Monroe instead of Noah and gortat
Or biyombo and Monroe vs biyombo and gortat...
Heck il rather have Monroe and horford over gortat and Horford...

Now love and Ryno are different but would u really want to have a love(Ryno) and gortat front court???
Especially considering Morris was a big part of our defensive turnaround?

[payitforward]

Nerlens Noel for Otto Porter.

You can go with a front line of Noel/Morris and shift Gortat to the bench. Then you can sign a FA SF to replace Porter before resigning Beal.

For the Sixers, Porter seems to be an ideal fit with Simmons in the front court.

Would the Wizards do this?

No interest.

Much more interest in a S&T of Beal to Philly.

Right -- no thanks.

OTOH, Arsenal, I love your signature line! Can't stand either of the Colangelos.

[payitforward]

Monroe like many other traditional centers honestly jus need shooters around him...bucks is literally the worst team he can be on right now...

We don't have the greatest cast of shooters but we have some and we also have a legit point guard...not Greek freak or jennings...Monroe hasn't been in a situation that's supporting for him..and he still has put up good numbers...

He has some faults defensively but it's not because of his effort...
Il take Monroe over gortat any day...Monroe can create good shots for himself..we need that

You're severely understating his problems on defense. He's not a rim protector and necessitates a two big lineup with a very particular player next to him. He isn't versatile, he can't switch on defense, he gets abused by small lineups. He's simply not a very good player in this era.

And I think you're greatly overstating his flaws. No, he's not the ideal rim protector but you make him out to be a complete sieve which he is not. He'd work better with a defensive big beside him but he IS a good player.

Agreed. Monroe is a very good NBA Center. I'd rate Gortat above him, but even if I'm right, & lets not debate that here, Marcin is more than 6 years older than Monroe.

The only real problem with Monroe is that he's going to make $35m this year and the following and then be unrestricted and get even more. We've got Gortat sewed up through 2018-19 for a lot less.

(Speaking of which it wasn't long ago that a lot of people here -- not including me -- were irate that we were overpaying Gortat in his FA contract! -- that deal is turning out to be one of the few good ones Ernie has made)

[payitforward]

We finished 5th best in def rating since we picked morris up...after being 20th for the 1st half of the season... Morris has shown elite potential whether guarding lebron Melo etc...Morris was a big part of our defensive turnaround?

I'd love to see some analytical numbers that show Morris to be an elite defender. Not being skeptical -- I'd love to be convinced it's true.

Anyone who's got that kind of data, or who wants to find it, please put the analysis in the Morris thread.

[deneem4]

Gortat >>> Monroe

Gortat for Monroe and MCW...
Il rather have Monroe he fits our needs better
MCW can anchor the 2nd unit

MCW with Wall is simply not enough shooting at the PG position. MCW isn't even really good at anything point guard related aside from being long and somewhat athletic. I'd still not even consider that deal.

Thomas and smart?
Westbrook and payne?

Lol remember we all said the same thing about Shaun Livingston when he was here...jus long and athletic and can't shoot...