Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[deneem4]

You're severely understating his problems on defense. He's not a rim protector and necessitates a two big lineup with a very particular player next to him. He isn't versatile, he can't switch on defense, he gets abused by small lineups. He's simply not a very good player in this era.

And I think you're greatly overstating his flaws. No, he's not the ideal rim protector but you make him out to be a complete sieve which he is not. He'd work better with a defensive big beside him but he IS a good player.

Agreed. Monroe is a very good NBA Center. I'd rate Gortat above him, but even if I'm right, & lets not debate that here, Marcin is more than 6 years older than Monroe.

The only real problem with Monroe is that he's going to make $35m this year and the following and then be unrestricted and get even more. We've got Gortat sewed up through 2018-19 for a lot less.

(Speaking of which it wasn't long ago that a lot of people here -- not including me -- were irate that we were overpaying Gortat in his FA contract! -- that deal is turning out to be one of the few good ones Ernie has made)

And guess who's a free agent when his deal is up?
Cousins Milsap favors Blake

gortat is good but he doesn't tip the scale offensively or defensively for us...Monroe can Atleast make us better offensively immediately and considering gortat struggles before Morris defensively I can live with Monroe defensively because this is a good summer for Centers

Ex
Pau/morris
Gortat/biyombo

Morris/Monroe
Pau/biyombo

[gtn130]

Gortat for Monroe and MCW...
Il rather have Monroe he fits our needs better
MCW can anchor the 2nd unit

MCW with Wall is simply not enough shooting at the PG position. MCW isn't even really good at anything point guard related aside from being long and somewhat athletic. I'd still not even consider that deal.

Thomas and smart?
Westbrook and payne?

Lol remember we all said the same thing about Shaun Livingston when he was here...jus long and athletic and can't shoot...

Those comparisons are horrid. MCW is a massive negative and is significantly worse than every player you mentioned. He is the Bucks worst player and made the team much worse when he was on the court. He is far closer to being out of the league than he is to a starting lineup at this point in his career.

[gtn130]

MCW with Wall is simply not enough shooting at the PG position. MCW isn't even really good at anything point guard related aside from being long and somewhat athletic. I'd still not even consider that deal.

Thomas and smart?
Westbrook and payne?

Lol remember we all said the same thing about Shaun Livingston when he was here...jus long and athletic and can't shoot...

Those comparisons are horrid. MCW is a massive negative and is significantly worse than every player you mentioned. He is the Bucks worst player and made the team much worse when he was on the court. He is far closer to being out of the league than he is to a starting lineup at this point in his career.

I mean, just look at what happened when Milwaukee subtracted MCW from their lineup:



MCW is quietly one of the most detrimental players in the NBA

[deneem4]

MCW with Wall is simply not enough shooting at the PG position. MCW isn't even really good at anything point guard related aside from being long and somewhat athletic. I'd still not even consider that deal.

Thomas and smart?
Westbrook and payne?

Lol remember we all said the same thing about Shaun Livingston when he was here...jus long and athletic and can't shoot...

Those comparisons are horrid. MCW is a massive negative and is significantly worse than every player you mentioned. He is the Bucks worst player and made the team much worse when he was on the court. He is far closer to being out of the league than he is to a starting lineup at this point in his career.

And Shaun Livingston was on his way out the league...
So it's not s bad comparison
Evan turner was going nowhere fast look how he turned it around...
The bucks are in a flux...they jus drafted thom maker that's something Ernie would do with that pick
Especially considering they have John Henson who jus got an extension and plays the exact way they would want thon to play

[gtn130]

Thomas and smart?
Westbrook and payne?

Lol remember we all said the same thing about Shaun Livingston when he was here...jus long and athletic and can't shoot...

Those comparisons are horrid. MCW is a massive negative and is significantly worse than every player you mentioned. He is the Bucks worst player and made the team much worse when he was on the court. He is far closer to being out of the league than he is to a starting lineup at this point in his career.

And Shaun Livingston was on his way out the league...
So it's not s bad comparison
Evan turner was going nowhere fast look how he turned it around...
The bucks are in a flux...they jus drafted thom maker that's something Ernie would do with that pick...
That organization is going downhill and it's not jus because of the players

Ok, so now your argument has become that we can make MCW good. That's a different argument from the one you were making before.

[deneem4]

Thomas and smart?
Westbrook and payne?

Lol remember we all said the same thing about Shaun Livingston when he was here...jus long and athletic and can't shoot...

Those comparisons are horrid. MCW is a massive negative and is significantly worse than every player you mentioned. He is the Bucks worst player and made the team much worse when he was on the court. He is far closer to being out of the league than he is to a starting lineup at this point in his career.

I mean, just look at what happened when Milwaukee subtracted MCW from their lineup:



MCW is quietly one of the most detrimental players in the NBA

Cause Bayless was the one guy on the floor who could hit the 3 consistently...we won't be starting MCW he would come off the bench...hopefully we can land Daniels and get a lights out shooter next to him...

[deneem4]

Those comparisons are horrid. MCW is a massive negative and is significantly worse than every player you mentioned. He is the Bucks worst player and made the team much worse when he was on the court. He is far closer to being out of the league than he is to a starting lineup at this point in his career.

And Shaun Livingston was on his way out the league...
So it's not s bad comparison
Evan turner was going nowhere fast look how he turned it around...
The bucks are in a flux...they jus drafted thom maker that's something Ernie would do with that pick...
That organization is going downhill and it's not jus because of the players

Ok, so now your argument has become that we can make MCW good. That's a different argument from the one you were making before.

My argument is MCW can be our 2nd unit playmaker...I never advocated him to start but he's a good option for the 2nd unit

[gtn130]

Those comparisons are horrid. MCW is a massive negative and is significantly worse than every player you mentioned. He is the Bucks worst player and made the team much worse when he was on the court. He is far closer to being out of the league than he is to a starting lineup at this point in his career.

I mean, just look at what happened when Milwaukee subtracted MCW from their lineup:



MCW is quietly one of the most detrimental players in the NBA

Cause Bayless was the one guy on the floor who could hit the 3 consistently...we won't be starting MCW he would come off the bench...hopefully we can land Daniels and get a lights out shooter next to him...

lol ok so now you're arguing MCW can be successful as long as we sign a lights out shooter to play next to him. This is again an entirely different argument.

It's good that you now agree, though, that having a point guard who can't shoot is problematic. Sounds kinda like the argument I've been making this entire time.

[gtn130]

MCW with Wall is simply not enough shooting at the PG position. MCW isn't even really good at anything point guard related aside from being long and somewhat athletic. I'd still not even consider that deal.

Cause Bayless was the one guy on the floor who could hit the 3 consistently...we won't be starting MCW he would come off the bench...hopefully we can land Daniels and get a lights out shooter next to him...

Come on dude lol

My original point was that MCW + Wall isn't enough shooting, and you then later say MCW was a negative for the Bucks because he wasn't a good enough shooter...

[deneem4]

I mean, just look at what happened when Milwaukee subtracted MCW from their lineup:



MCW is quietly one of the most detrimental players in the NBA

Cause Bayless was the one guy on the floor who could hit the 3 consistently...we won't be starting MCW he would come off the bench...hopefully we can land Daniels and get a lights out shooter next to him...

lol ok so now you're arguing MCW can be successful as long as we sign a lights out shooter to play next to him. This is again an entirely different argument.

It's good that you now agree, though, that having a point guard who can't shoot is problematic. Sounds kinda like the argument I've been making this entire time.

Do u want me to go a couple pages and share my proposed offseason plan??
We're about to max out a sg because our cornerstone pg isn't s great shooter...so what arguement are you making?

U add players to make up for others weakness it's a team game...of course we need a shooter next to MCW jus like we need a shooter next to wall jus like u need defenders next to curry or shooters around lebron, that's how the game works..

Simply stating being a good shooter in off the bench with MCW is simply basketball analysis

[deneem4]

MCW with Wall is simply not enough shooting at the PG position. MCW isn't even really good at anything point guard related aside from being long and somewhat athletic. I'd still not even consider that deal.

Cause Bayless was the one guy on the floor who could hit the 3 consistently...we won't be starting MCW he would come off the bench...hopefully we can land Daniels and get a lights out shooter next to him...

Come on dude lol

My original point was that MCW + Wall isn't enough shooting, and you then later say MCW was a negative for the Bucks because he wasn't a good enough shooter...

Retread the quote Baylee's helped the team more because he was the only shooter on the floor

Gianna's horrible from 3
Parker horrible from 3
Even mdidelton was bad this year
The bucks were probably the worst 3pt shooting team but it wasn't MCW fault..

And where do u keep getting MCW and wall from
MCW WILL NOT START WITH WALL...he will relieve him off the bench

[gtn130]

MCW with Wall is simply not enough shooting at the PG position. MCW isn't even really good at anything point guard related aside from being long and somewhat athletic. I'd still not even consider that deal.

Cause Bayless was the one guy on the floor who could hit the 3 consistently...we won't be starting MCW he would come off the bench...hopefully we can land Daniels and get a lights out shooter next to him...

Come on dude lol

My original point was that MCW + Wall isn't enough shooting, and you then later say MCW was a negative for the Bucks because he wasn't a good enough shooter...

Retread the quote Baylee's helped the team more because he was the only shooter on the floor

Gianna's horrible from 3
Parker horrible from 3
Even mdidelton was bad this year
The bucks were probably the worst 3pt shooting team but it wasn't MCW fault..

And where do u keep getting MCW and wall from
MCW WILL NOT START WITH WALL...he will relieve him off the bench

I wasn't implying Wall and MCW together, even though having the flexibility of playing Wall with Sessions was great, and losing that with MCW is already knock against him.

MCW and Bayless played 341 minutes together. That combination was still worse than the non-MCW lineups btw.

[deneem4]

Come on dude lol

My original point was that MCW + Wall isn't enough shooting, and you then later say MCW was a negative for the Bucks because he wasn't a good enough shooter...

Retread the quote Baylee's helped the team more because he was the only shooter on the floor

Gianna's horrible from 3
Parker horrible from 3
Even mdidelton was bad this year
The bucks were probably the worst 3pt shooting team but it wasn't MCW fault..

And where do u keep getting MCW and wall from
MCW WILL NOT START WITH WALL...he will relieve him off the bench

I wasn't implying Wall and MCW together, even though having the flexibility of playing Wall with Sessions was great, and losing that with MCW is already knock against him.

MCW and Bayless played 341 minutes together. That combination was still worse than the non-MCW lineups btw.

Out of the players that took Atleast 50 3pts
3 shot over 30% on the buck this year...
That's not an ideal fit for a non shooting pg...

Incontrast everyone on our team shot over 30% from the 3 expect nene gortat gooden and hickson

[gtn130]

Retread the quote Baylee's helped the team more because he was the only shooter on the floor

Gianna's horrible from 3
Parker horrible from 3
Even mdidelton was bad this year
The bucks were probably the worst 3pt shooting team but it wasn't MCW fault..

And where do u keep getting MCW and wall from
MCW WILL NOT START WITH WALL...he will relieve him off the bench

I wasn't implying Wall and MCW together, even though having the flexibility of playing Wall with Sessions was great, and losing that with MCW is already knock against him.

MCW and Bayless played 341 minutes together. That combination was still worse than the non-MCW lineups btw.

Out of the players that took Atleast 50 3pts
3 shot over 30% on the buck this year...
That's not an ideal fit for a non shooting pg...

Yeah dude it's almost as if non-shooting point guards aren't good in a lot of situations and catering a roster around one is difficult.

Maybe the Wizards should avoid this headache and consider not trading for MCW...

[deneem4]

I wasn't implying Wall and MCW together, even though having the flexibility of playing Wall with Sessions was great, and losing that with MCW is already knock against him.

MCW and Bayless played 341 minutes together. That combination was still worse than the non-MCW lineups btw.

Out of the players that took Atleast 50 3pts
3 shot over 30% on the buck this year...
That's not an ideal fit for a non shooting pg...

Yeah dude it's almost as if non-shooting point guards aren't good in a lot of situations and catering a roster around one is difficult.

Maybe the Wizards should avoid this headache and consider not trading for MCW...

In contrast everyone except gooden nene gortat and hickson shot over 30% from the 3...
Maybe we have a roster better fit for non shooting pgs..

[deneem4]

We finished 5th best in def rating since we picked morris up...after being 20th for the 1st half of the season... Morris has shown elite potential whether guarding lebron Melo etc...Morris was a big part of our defensive turnaround?

I'd love to see some analytical numbers that show Morris to be an elite defender. Not being skeptical -- I'd love to be convinced it's true.

Anyone who's got that kind of data, or who wants to find it, please put the analysis in the Morris thread.

Defense is a team effort and since Morris came our defense has become top 10 numbers are in the Morris thread

[payitforward]

We finished 5th best in def rating since we picked morris up...after being 20th for the 1st half of the season... Morris has shown elite potential whether guarding lebron Melo etc...Morris was a big part of our defensive turnaround?

I'd love to see some analytical numbers that show Morris to be an elite defender. Not being skeptical -- I'd love to be convinced it's true.

Anyone who's got that kind of data, or who wants to find it, please put the analysis in the Morris thread.

Defense is a team effort and since Morris came our defense has become top 10 numbers are in the Morris thread

All of basketball is a team effort, deneem.

OTOH, if "defense is a team effort" -- i.e. doesn't come from what any single guy does -- then what does it mean to say "Morris has shown elite potential... guarding lebron Melo etc" ?

If our defense went from bottom whatever to top 10 once Morris arrived, that is a correlation. If his play is also a cause of this improvement, then it'll show in numbers, in analysis of his play. None of that is in the Morris thread.

Again, I'd be really happy for this to be true, for him to be an outstanding defender. I just want to see the numbers that support the claim.

[gambitx777]

He is not an out standing defender but he is solid, and his value on D is in the effort he puts in, he does try hard.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I have no interest in Monroe. He's a dinosaur in today's game.

I wish in retrospect that OKC had eliminated the Warriors. Steven Adams and Enes Kanter are not dinosaurs.

I hate the mindset that now says every 4 must be a stretch 4 and the ideal 5 is Draymond Green.

Today's game is the same damned game they've been playing for years. Monroe is a real good player when the right players are placed around him.

[AFM]

Preach brother!!

I seem to remember Tristan Thompson destroying GSW on the boards. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.