The 2016 Offseason Thread (Post Draft)

[bwgood77]

Marc Berman from the NY Post said that Derrick Williams will be recruited by least the Lakers and Suns.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/29/jeff-hornacek-to-phil-jackson-get-us-some-good-players/

"Last summer’s free agency was hardly a Jackson bonanza and now he has to fiddle with his own free agents. Jackson wants to re-sign Lance Thomas, Kevin Seraphin and Williams. Williams will be recruited by at least the Lakers and Suns, according to a source."

Williams would be a good stop-gap target. I'd say we could offer him a 2-3 year deal maybe 12mil per season. Anything more is really a vast overpay. But he could play PF and some SF too.

I loved him at AZ, but he is not the guy we need. I looked at his numbers the other day. If we could get him on the cheap for one season, or just to reach the floor, MAYBE, but I wouldn't sign him for more than one season, maybe a team option for a second.

[bwgood77]

this is the problem with Suns fans right now. a little too much riding on DB. that's not fair to him

That may be as much a disdain for Harden though.

I can acknowledge Harden is objectively better right now, but I still think he's a complete clown and will never lead a team to a title. I would take Booker over Harden because I think he has a chance to become a far superior overall player. And even if he doesn't become an all-star, I still prefer watching Booker and his style of play.

You think Booker can become a 29ppg 8apg 6rpg 1.5spg SG???


You like Booker because he plays for the Suns and he was a bright spark last season.

Just say that.. Thats all you need to say.


If you think Booker is a future 29ppg 8apg 6rpg SG.... And be a better overall player than Harden... Then I say you are extremely optimistic. Harden has a much deeper array of moves and offensive skill scope than Booker...

That is crazy. Almost sounds like something you'd say about Goodwin.

[NBA Fiend]

Has anyone mentioned the Suns are interested in Cole Aldrich?

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/

[dremill24]

To be honest..IF (big 'if' obviously) Knight is willing to accept a 6th man role off the bench..i dont see a real "glut" at guard. Youve got your starters in Bled/Booker, 3rd guard to spell them both in Knight, plus a pure backup point in Ulis to play spot minutes.

Goodwin and Jenkins are not go-forward pieces..not worried about them. If Price were to come back then Im sure Ulis would spend most of his time in the DLeague, not really creating any PT problems.

[bwgood77]

I still think there is a logjam at the guard spots with too many players and would like to see Knight traded. If the Suns have Bledsoe and Booker starting with Price (re-signed), Goodwin, and Ulis off the bench, that should be enough. Outside of my personal viewpoint of Knight, there is just not enough minutes to go around. And I do not want to see a Bledsoe, Knight, and Booker lineup. That would be terrible defensively. Possibly the worst in the league. Now I would not trade Knight for nothing, but if the Suns can trade him for some good assets or a player that improves the team and helps balance out the roster, then I am all for it.

Knight seems to be hard to trade in a simulation. But day one just finished and it was a rush for the big names.

[NBA Fiend]

I repeat this cat right here. Humorous, they are targeting him, what for termination?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4267/cole-aldrich

[AtheJ415]

Word is the Raptors have to get rid of a big contract player if they want to re-sign both DeRozen & Biyombo, which reportedly they do. Their biggest contract has also been their biggest letdown of the season. DeMarre Carroll.

After a brutal left knee injury with Atlanta in the Eastern Conference Finals, it was his feet and right knee that became problems early in his first campaign with the Raptors. He missed three games early on with plantar fasciitis, then nine games in December with a right knee contusion. In both instances, Carroll played through the pain and looked increasingly frustrated with his play. It culminated in a doctor’s visit in early January, when they investigated his knee and performed arthroscopic knee surgery. An initial timeframe of 6-8 weeks was placed on Carroll, but his return wouldn’t come until 13 weeks later, as he played three of the last five regular season games. He would later admit that he returned despite continued swelling, which may have contributed to what happened next.

Things failed to get better in the playoffs. At various points, he battled through a hyperextended elbow, sprained wrist, hip pointer, and a twisted ankle. Though he manufactured some timely shots (albeit missing many others), he was close to hopeless in defending Paul George and LeBron James, as the team had to rely more on Norman Powell and Patrick Patterson.

In the end, the Raptors had him dressed for what they signed him for – postseason basketball. They failed to get the expected production, though, as his numbers dropped off from the previous season in every meaningful category.

I wonder if they would give up on him that easy and if we could get him healthy and keep him healthy. He has 4 years remaining on his contract, which gives us 4 years to develop Bender or Chriss into our future starting SF.

In what way is Marquise Chriss ever going to be an NBA SF? Bender I can somewhat understand, but no freaking way on Chriss. Chriss is a PF through and through. He's closer to a future 5 than a 3. The NBA is trending positionless with guys playing up, not forcing bigs to play the 3.

I'd be okay with Carroll, so long as Tucker is moved. Move Chandler too. Carroll could bring Warren along and Bender and Chriss can man the 4 with some backup 5 minutes to Len.

[Kerrsed]

Wow, a undrafted player just got a major sponsorship deal.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16621828/mavericks-perry-ellis-gets-sponsorship-deal-perry-ellis-clothing-company

[Kerrsed]

In what way is Marquise Chriss ever going to be an NBA SF? Bender I can somewhat understand, but no freaking way on Chriss. Chriss is a PF through and through. He's closer to a future 5 than a 3. The NBA is trending positionless with guys playing up, not forcing bigs to play the 3.

I'd be okay with Carroll, so long as Tucker is moved. Move Chandler too. Carroll could bring Warren along and Bender and Chriss can man the 4 with some backup 5 minutes to Len.

I agree that Bender is more likely to be our SF of the future, but Chriss has stated himself that he would like to try to play at both SF and PF positions and that has tried to mold his game around Rudy Gay, a career SF.

[NavLDO]

Sorry guys but Len has been trash. I would rather keep Chandler. With the way Len has played last season Chandler has every reason to either be pissed at him or not talk to him at all.

Len will not make it past this upcoming season if he continues that downward trend with injuries/piss poor performance.[/quote]

He is young
He was drafted 5th but that draft was weak

I don't think you give up on him yet

Len is not a bust. Please give him a couple of years.

That draft was pretty terrible and right now Len is a bust. I'm going to call it and hope that we don't waste time trying to find him a place in this squad. Sorry.

Yes, yes, you are, because you are freaking clueless.

You want to label Len a bust, who's had all of 93 games starting experience--just over a season--and 189 total games played--roughly 2 seasons and some change total game experience. He's a 7'1" 260 lb C/PF, who was coached up by a former Guard, and has little to no idea how to use him properly. Yet are ok with paying $13M per for a 34 YO C who has ZERO range on his shot (77% at the rim, 12.5% from 3-to-10ft, for a total of 90% of his shots taken from within 10 ft), yet Alex, who shot 66.7% (44.3% at Rim/ 22.4% from within 10 ft, yet the other nearly 34% coming from 10ft or greater, as opposed to Chandler's , played over a minute less per game than Chandler, yet scored almost 2 PPG more than Chandler, 1 TRB less/gm, yet had .1 more BLKS/gm than Chandler--so taking all that into consideration, you are ready to give up on our top 5 pick from 3 years ago, who, BTW, after Horny was fired, delivered 14 DBL-DBLs playing an avg 28.8 MPG, avg'd 12.1 PPG, 9.9 TRB,1.8 Asst/gm in 32 gms. Oh yeah, total bust.

And your superstar Chandler? Well, let's see how he started off his career compared to Len. I mean, Tyson was selected 2nd overall in 2001; Len was 5th overall in 2013.

Let's look at their first 3 seasons, shall we?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2004&p1=chandty01&y2=2016&p2=lenal01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Len started 93 games of 189 played; Chandler started 107 of 181 played. Funny how you mention 'downward trend' when he played in more games, and started more games than either of his 1st two seasons...oops...1st 'myth' debunked'. He scored more PPG and had more TRB/gm last season than he did in either of his 1st two seasons....oops...2nd 'myth' debunked. Yet Chandler had fewer PPG and games played from his 2nd to 3rd season, yet amazingly, he survived his downward trend quite well wouldn't you say?

Yet Tyson outpaced Len in FG%s in his 1st 3 seasons. Well, I should hope so, since as you see below, nearly 60% of his shots were from 3ft in, whereas Len had just over 38% of his FGA from 3ft in. Yet, when we look at FT Attempts, we see that Len had the clear advantage of shooting FTs with a 71.4% clip compared to Chander's 61.8% FT%.

FG Atempts (3ft in/Total):
1st Season -- Len: 37 of 78 vs Chandler's: 202 of 304
2nd Season -- Len: 192 of 353 vs Chandler's: 282 of 484
3rd Season -- Len: 276 of 623 vs Chandler's: 79 of 159
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Total -- Len 405 of 1054 vs Chandler: 563 of 947
38.4% vs 59.5%

Then let's look at TRBs. Chandler, despite playing 297 total more minutes than Len during his 1st 3 seasons, ended up producing 20 total fewer TRBs than Len.

And how about per36 stats. Well, you'll see Len with .1 fewer Assts than Chandler, but again, outrebounding him 11.2 vs 10.1, but alas, with .2 total fewer pts per36, .4 fewer BLKS, though equal numbers of STLs and TOVs.
So, seeing that Len is actually IMPROVING, as opposed to this mythical 'downward trend' you speak of, and of which, includes Len's 14 Dbl-Dbls in his final 32 games of the season, and while yes, he has some work to do, and trails Chandler in many of the advanced stats, the fact that Len's had quite the surge in performance as soon as Watson took over for Hornacek. leads me to the assumption that he'll continue to improve, and thus, is FAR more likely to 'succeed' than to 'bust' as you are predicting him to.

[Kjdills13]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1458687

Best SG in NBA thread.
Looks like I have been hitting my head against the wall vs you. And I do have ocean front property in Yuma for you to buy.

LMAO, The thread you created and the poll showing BUTLER has more votes than Harden? You are acting like your thread is proving what many of us are saying is stupidly wrong, yet the answers and poll in your own thread prove otherwise.

Acting like its a runaway for Harden when the poll currently says Harden has 16 votes out of 47, making him second to Butler, and with Thompson and Wade also getting votes as well.

I suggest you just keep your "OMG HARDEN IZ D BEST!! We need to trade KNIGHT/BOOKER 4 Him NOW!!" to your General Board thread as it gets no play in here.

Actually the poll says harden, and you were arguing Thompson and he doesn't even have half the votes, just admit you are wrong it's not a big deal it's a message board.

[bwgood77]

To be honest..IF (big 'if' obviously) Knight is willing to accept a 6th man role off the bench..i dont see a real "glut" at guard. Youve got your starters in Bled/Booker, 3rd guard to spell them both in Knight, plus a pure backup point in Ulis to play spot minutes.

Goodwin and Jenkins are not go-forward pieces..not worried about them. If Price were to come back then Im sure Ulis would spend most of his time in the DLeague, not really creating any PT problems.

I think Jenkins is worth keeping at least another year. Goodwin too, but I think he can be trade bait.

[bwgood77]

Word is the Raptors have to get rid of a big contract player if they want to re-sign both DeRozen & Biyombo, which reportedly they do. Their biggest contract has also been their biggest letdown of the season. DeMarre Carroll.

After a brutal left knee injury with Atlanta in the Eastern Conference Finals, it was his feet and right knee that became problems early in his first campaign with the Raptors. He missed three games early on with plantar fasciitis, then nine games in December with a right knee contusion. In both instances, Carroll played through the pain and looked increasingly frustrated with his play. It culminated in a doctor’s visit in early January, when they investigated his knee and performed arthroscopic knee surgery. An initial timeframe of 6-8 weeks was placed on Carroll, but his return wouldn’t come until 13 weeks later, as he played three of the last five regular season games. He would later admit that he returned despite continued swelling, which may have contributed to what happened next.

Things failed to get better in the playoffs. At various points, he battled through a hyperextended elbow, sprained wrist, hip pointer, and a twisted ankle. Though he manufactured some timely shots (albeit missing many others), he was close to hopeless in defending Paul George and LeBron James, as the team had to rely more on Norman Powell and Patrick Patterson.

In the end, the Raptors had him dressed for what they signed him for – postseason basketball. They failed to get the expected production, though, as his numbers dropped off from the previous season in every meaningful category.

I wonder if they would give up on him that easy and if we could get him healthy and keep him healthy. He has 4 years remaining on his contract, which gives us 4 years to develop Bender or Chriss into our future starting SF.

In what way is Marquise Chriss ever going to be an NBA SF? Bender I can somewhat understand, but no freaking way on Chriss. Chriss is a PF through and through. He's closer to a future 5 than a 3. The NBA is trending positionless with guys playing up, not forcing bigs to play the 3.

I'd be okay with Carroll, so long as Tucker is moved. Move Chandler too. Carroll could bring Warren along and Bender and Chriss can man the 4 with some backup 5 minutes to Len.

Yeah, no way to rely on Bender or Chriss to play a ton of minutes at SF, especially Chriss.

[AtheJ415]

Just a reminder--since we have Miami's picks in the future, root against them in FA. Hopefully they wait on Wade and lose Whiteside in the process, while Wade decides to go elsewhere. Unlikely I know, but hope they lose at least one of them and fail to replace him.

[AtheJ415]

Harden's a beast. Yes, his D sucks, he's a poor leader, and he's horribly immature, but offensively he's a juggernaut, and he can defend WHEN HE WANTS TO. That is key. Because it means you can work with something as opposed to having no capability of playing D. He just loses his guy off the ball constantly, which is a focus thing. Lightening the load for him on offense would likely make him a better defender, combined with surrounding him with people who will make him accountable. Houston's problem has been having no leaders.

I wouldn't pick Klay over him. I love Butler but probably not him either. That would be a tough call for me.

That said, anybody saying we should dump Booker for him is crazy imo. You have to consider the age of our team. Getting Harden who is 6 years older than Booker shortens our window. You'd be banking on getting a guy in FA who wants to play with Harden, and I'm not sure many guys want to now that he's adopted such a ball-dominant style. Regardless, Houston wouldn't trade him so why discuss it?

[Mulhollanddrive]

There's really no difference between all these players we're linked with, they all suck and ideally be here for 1-2 years to get to minimum cap.

[TeamTragic]

That draft was pretty terrible and right now Len is a bust. I'm going to call it and hope that we don't waste time trying to find him a place in this squad. Sorry.

Yes, yes, you are, because you are freaking clueless.

You want to label Len a bust, who's had all of 93 games starting experience--just over a season--and 189 total games played--roughly 2 seasons and some change total game experience. He's a 7'1" 260 lb C/PF, who was coached up by a former Guard, and has little to no idea how to use him properly. Yet are ok with paying $13M per for a 34 YO C who has ZERO range on his shot (77% at the rim, 12.5% from 3-to-10ft, for a total of 90% of his shots taken from within 10 ft), yet Alex, who shot 66.7% (44.3% at Rim/ 22.4% from within 10 ft, yet the other nearly 34% coming from 10ft or greater, as opposed to Chandler's , played over a minute less per game than Chandler, yet scored almost 2 PPG more than Chandler, 1 TRB less/gm, yet had .1 more BLKS/gm than Chandler--so taking all that into consideration, you are ready to give up on our top 5 pick from 3 years ago, who, BTW, after Horny was fired, delivered 14 DBL-DBLs playing an avg 28.8 MPG, avg'd 12.1 PPG, 9.9 TRB,1.8 Asst/gm in 32 gms. Oh yeah, total bust.

And your superstar Chandler? Well, let's see how he started off his career compared to Len. I mean, Tyson was selected 2nd overall in 2001; Len was 5th overall in 2013.

Let's look at their first 3 seasons, shall we?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2004&p1=chandty01&y2=2016&p2=lenal01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Len started 93 games of 189 played; Chandler started 107 of 181 played. Funny how you mention 'downward trend' when he played in more games, and started more games than either of his 1st two seasons...oops...1st 'myth' debunked'. He scored more PPG and had more TRB/gm last season than he did in either of his 1st two seasons....oops...2nd 'myth' debunked. Yet Chandler had fewer PPG and games played from his 2nd to 3rd season, yet amazingly, he survived his downward trend quite well wouldn't you say?

Yet Tyson outpaced Len in FG%s in his 1st 3 seasons. Well, I should hope so, since as you see below, nearly 60% of his shots were from 3ft in, whereas Len had just over 38% of his FGA from 3ft in. Yet, when we look at FT Attempts, we see that Len had the clear advantage of shooting FTs with a 71.4% clip compared to Chander's 61.8% FT%.

FG Atempts (3ft in/Total):
1st Season -- Len: 37 of 78 vs Chandler's: 202 of 304
2nd Season -- Len: 192 of 353 vs Chandler's: 282 of 484
3rd Season -- Len: 276 of 623 vs Chandler's: 79 of 159
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Total -- Len 405 of 1054 vs Chandler: 563 of 947
38.4% vs 59.5%

Then let's look at TRBs. Chandler, despite playing 297 total more minutes than Len during his 1st 3 seasons, ended up producing 20 total fewer TRBs than Len.

And how about per36 stats. Well, you'll see Len with .1 fewer Assts than Chandler, but again, outrebounding him 11.2 vs 10.1, but alas, with .2 total fewer pts per36, .4 fewer BLKS, though equal numbers of STLs and TOVs.
So, seeing that Len is actually IMPROVING, as opposed to this mythical 'downward trend' you speak of, and of which, includes Len's 14 Dbl-Dbls in his final 32 games of the season, and while yes, he has some work to do, and trails Chandler in many of the advanced stats, the fact that Len's had quite the surge in performance as soon as Watson took over for Hornacek. leads me to the assumption that he'll continue to improve, and thus, is FAR more likely to 'succeed' than to 'bust' as you are predicting him to.

Except we barely used Chandler properly. In fact most stats above are not that far apart. Of course Len will move quicker than Chandler. I will leave you with this:

Chandler won a championship. He wasn't a ring chaser. He was an integral part. Remove Chandler and the Mavericks would have NEVER won the championship against Miami.

Len can barely stay on the court. He can barely start on a SUNS team with how many centers? Really? He might be improving just like eventually Robin Lopez improved and became an average center. Remove Len and this team wouldn't even miss him for one second. He just simply doesn't matter.

Len does not have a future on this team. You know it. I know it. The entire SUNS organization knows it.

[letsgosuns]

So many people are mentioning signing players that are in the 29-30 age bracket. I do not think the Suns are going to go after any players in their late 20's. Those players do not fit the core age of the team.

[JJ13]

Only moves I want to make:

Trade PJ and Chandler for picks and expirings
Sign Bazemore or Batum
Sign Whiteside (agree this is the longest shot of all)

[JJ13]

Only moves I want to make:

Trade PJ and Chandler for picks and expirings
Sign Bazemore or Batum
Sign Whiteside (agree this is the longest shot of all)

Adding parsons to SF list, worth the risk imo