The 2016 Offseason Thread (Post Draft)

[carey]

Tyson is, despite your moaning, one of the best bigs in the league. If anyone's getting traded, it's Alex.
Unless Tyson asks to leave, he's not going anywhere.

It's just a hunch, but I'm fairly certain he's already asked. We'll know fairly soon I'd imagine.

[BobbieL]

Tyson is, despite your moaning, one of the best bigs in the league. If anyone's getting traded, it's Alex.
Unless Tyson asks to leave, he's not going anywhere.

It's just a hunch, but I'm fairly certain he's already asked. We'll know fairly soon I'd imagine.

There is a market for Tyson Chandler
Especially if Joakim Noah is getting 18m per year

I think it would be better for chandler and better for the Suns

[WeekapaugGroove]

Tyson had a hamstring injury.
He's never had one before.
You guys already know that, which makes your disdain for him.....befuddling.

Despite that, Chandler posted the 11th best rebound per 48 mark in the league for guys who played more than 800 minutes. (Cole Aldrich is one of these.)
For guys who played 1600 minutes, he placed 9th.
Of those, he had the 4th highest FG%.

Much as I like Alex Len, Cole Aldrich is significantly better. So was Tyson. I would absolutely be willing to move on from Alex. I just don't know if he puts it all together. With his rookie extension coming up, I'm weary about signing him to a long term deal. Same with Archie.

Tyson is, despite your moaning, one of the best bigs in the league. If anyone's getting traded, it's Alex.
Unless Tyson asks to leave, he's not going anywhere.

What part of Tyson chandler being too old to have any impact by the time the suns are actually ready to compete do you not understand??? Seems like a pretty simple concept

[JJ13]

Good to see knight hanging out with the team. He will get his minutes. Back-up PG, back-up SG, and I could see Watson toying with a Bled-Knight-Booker line-up. McD has already alluded to Booker playing SF. Don't forget this was a guy who should have been an all-star two years ago. The talent is there, and $12-14M per year over the next few years will be equivalent to around $8M/yr with last year's cap. I could absolutely see knight getting $18m/yr if he was a FA this offseason, and probably $20m/yr next year. Keep him, grow his value, and he could be one of the best trade chips in the league in a year or two.

[8on]

Tyson is, despite your moaning, one of the best bigs in the league. If anyone's getting traded, it's Alex.
Unless Tyson asks to leave, he's not going anywhere.

It's just a hunch, but I'm fairly certain he's already asked. We'll know fairly soon I'd imagine.

He was on The Jump about a month ago. Said he's "not there yet." I doubt that has changed.
To me, that means he's willing to consider it if this season doesn't go well.
Fine. That's reasonable. He expected us to contend for a playoff spot.
I still believe that. McD believes that, and in Brandon Knight. (McD mentioned the stretch when we were 7-5 only last week. Whenever he brings that up, that's what he thinks we are.)

Both Brandon and Tyson were signed in win-now mode.
Just because four guys miss at least half the season, doesn't mean we have a 23 win roster.
He hasn't asked, he's not getting traded. I can't prove it, but come September he'll still be here.

[8on]

Tyson had a hamstring injury.
He's never had one before.
You guys already know that, which makes your disdain for him.....befuddling.

Despite that, Chandler posted the 11th best rebound per 48 mark in the league for guys who played more than 800 minutes. (Cole Aldrich is one of these.)
For guys who played 1600 minutes, he placed 9th.
Of those, he had the 4th highest FG%.

Much as I like Alex Len, Cole Aldrich is significantly better. So was Tyson. I would absolutely be willing to move on from Alex. I just don't know if he puts it all together. With his rookie extension coming up, I'm weary about signing him to a long term deal. Same with Archie.

Tyson is, despite your moaning, one of the best bigs in the league. If anyone's getting traded, it's Alex.
Unless Tyson asks to leave, he's not going anywhere.

What part of Tyson chandler being too old to have any impact by the time the suns are actually ready to compete do you not understand??? Seems like a pretty simple concept

That doesn't make any sense to me. He's good. He still rebounds well and scores efficiently.
Granted, i didnt watch as many Suns games as I wanted to watch, but the numbers say he's as good as we'll find.
You guys need to understand that the numbers dont support your claims

[NBA Fiend]

There is no way Barnes is worth 20 million no way, no sir, no how. Let Philly blow their wad all over him. Once again the McD plan is to develop players this year and not overspend. Fight like hell to make playoffs, then next offseason the Suns can sign 2 max free agents who want to team up. The Suns are loaded with youth and potential. This is the first time in years and upon years the Suns have a clear cut plan for the future. There is no way in the name of gods green earth that you overspend on marginal talent this year. The beauty of this is the Suns will be able to keep all the rookies intact without trading any of them while potentially adding 2 max players next year to go along with all the youth. Major free agents will have to take notice of the Suns next year if they do make make the playoffs. Now I'm not going to go overboard and say Durant snd Westbrook are tripping over themselves come to Phoenix next year. But at least the Suns will be players again.

[8on]

It seems like the Thunder might make Enes Kanter available in order to make cap room for Al Horford.
I would be down to give up an asset or two to get him.
More guys better than Len: Amir Johnson, Kosta, Jordan Hill, Greg Monroe (who we might be able to steal), Aron Baynes, Leuer, Asik, Bogut, Cole.....and Tyson.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Tyson had a hamstring injury.
He's never had one before.
You guys already know that, which makes your disdain for him.....befuddling.

Despite that, Chandler posted the 11th best rebound per 48 mark in the league for guys who played more than 800 minutes. (Cole Aldrich is one of these.)
For guys who played 1600 minutes, he placed 9th.
Of those, he had the 4th highest FG%.

Much as I like Alex Len, Cole Aldrich is significantly better. So was Tyson. I would absolutely be willing to move on from Alex. I just don't know if he puts it all together. With his rookie extension coming up, I'm weary about signing him to a long term deal. Same with Archie.

Tyson is, despite your moaning, one of the best bigs in the league. If anyone's getting traded, it's Alex.
Unless Tyson asks to leave, he's not going anywhere.

What part of Tyson chandler being too old to have any impact by the time the suns are actually ready to compete do you not understand??? Seems like a pretty simple concept

That doesn't make any sense to me. He's good. He still rebounds well and scores efficiently.
Granted, i didnt watch as many Suns games as I wanted to watch, but the numbers say he's as good as we'll find.
You guys need to understand that the numbers dont support your claims

Tyson Chandler turns 35 this fall. The Suns have loaded up with guys under 25. Those players will need some time to hit their prime. By the time they hit their prime Chander will be retired. Do you get what I'm saying?

I think our disconnect is that I'm getting the sense you think this team can contend now.... I do not. On that we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[GetYourPHX]

Player price tags have certainly gone up, but I think agents are leaking all of this information to put pressure on teams to up their bids necessarily. Some of these rumored deals are just downright silly and some simple math puts them in context. A 7 million dollar player is still only a 9.2 million dollar player this year, and a 11.2 million dollar a year player after that.

I think the biggest driver of some of these deals is not the extra cap space, but simply that more teams have room than usual. They're bidding against themselves and spending dumb money doing it.

Some of the worst contracts in the history of the NBA are about to be signed in the next two years. I hope we don't hand one of them out.

[8on]

Well, what if Devin Booker hits his prime his season? Or tomorrow? What if he's already ready?
I say there are layers.
Layer 1: Tyson, Bled, Tucker, Leuer, Telly, Price
Layer 2: Knight, Warren, Len, Goodwin
Layer 3: Booker, Ulis, Bender, Chriss

I'm willing to peel away each layer.....but we don't have to. Layers 2 and 3 aren't ready yet.
We have a chance to compete with 1. I say let's try it. There's no rush. We have so many assets that it doesn't matter whether we get market value for them or not.

[Qwigglez]

Tyson had a hamstring injury.
He's never had one before.
You guys already know that, which makes your disdain for him.....befuddling.

Despite that, Chandler posted the 11th best rebound per 48 mark in the league for guys who played more than 800 minutes. (Cole Aldrich is one of these.)
For guys who played 1600 minutes, he placed 9th.
Of those, he had the 4th highest FG%.

Much as I like Alex Len, Cole Aldrich is significantly better. So was Tyson. I would absolutely be willing to move on from Alex. I just don't know if he puts it all together. With his rookie extension coming up, I'm weary about signing him to a long term deal. Same with Archie.

Tyson is, despite your moaning, one of the best bigs in the league. If anyone's getting traded, it's Alex.
Unless Tyson asks to leave, he's not going anywhere.

Cole Aldrich is 4 years older than Len. Aldrich knows his role on a team, he's a role player off the bench. Alex Len is still developing. Alex Len is 7'1, those guys don't grow on trees. Moving on from him would absolutely be the dumbest thing you can do.
Let's look at Aldrich's stats from him third year... 1.7/1.9/0.3.
Or the perfect example is to look at Robin Lopez since he was Sun once upon a time. Everyone hated him, wanted to give up on him, but in his sixth year in the league he averaged 11.1/8.5/1.7. Certainly not the greatest, but definitely a serviceable starting center.
You have to be patient on centers, it takes them a while to really put it all together.

[BobbieL]

It seems like the Thunder might make Enes Kanter available in order to make cap room for Al Horford.
I would be down to give up an asset or two to get him.
More guys better than Len: Amir Johnson, Kosta, Jordan Hill, Greg Monroe (who we might be able to steal), Aron Baynes, Leuer, Asik, Bogut, Cole.....and Tyson.

I think Kanter goes to the Hawks if the Thunder get Horford. Unless the Hawks want the cap space - makes sense to take back Kanter and probably Roberson, maybe Cameron Payne -- in a Sign and trade. Hawks would have Kanter and Splitter. Not bad in the east

Roberson was good for OKC but with getting Olapadio and to get Horford, might have to give up Roberson. Possibly could be Kanter, Collison and Payne/Roberson.

[NBA Fiend]

Something like this for a 3 way Bogut/pick to Suns, P.J. to G.S. Chandler to third team. G.S. buys out P.J. for the 1.5. The trade is an example only, any third ream will do.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zbyna2z

[TeamTragic]

Yes, yes, you are, because you are freaking clueless.

You want to label Len a bust, who's had all of 93 games starting experience--just over a season--and 189 total games played--roughly 2 seasons and some change total game experience. He's a 7'1" 260 lb C/PF, who was coached up by a former Guard, and has little to no idea how to use him properly. Yet are ok with paying $13M per for a 34 YO C who has ZERO range on his shot (77% at the rim, 12.5% from 3-to-10ft, for a total of 90% of his shots taken from within 10 ft), yet Alex, who shot 66.7% (44.3% at Rim/ 22.4% from within 10 ft, yet the other nearly 34% coming from 10ft or greater, as opposed to Chandler's , played over a minute less per game than Chandler, yet scored almost 2 PPG more than Chandler, 1 TRB less/gm, yet had .1 more BLKS/gm than Chandler--so taking all that into consideration, you are ready to give up on our top 5 pick from 3 years ago, who, BTW, after Horny was fired, delivered 14 DBL-DBLs playing an avg 28.8 MPG, avg'd 12.1 PPG, 9.9 TRB,1.8 Asst/gm in 32 gms. Oh yeah, total bust.

And your superstar Chandler? Well, let's see how he started off his career compared to Len. I mean, Tyson was selected 2nd overall in 2001; Len was 5th overall in 2013.

Let's look at their first 3 seasons, shall we?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&y1=2004&p1=chandty01&y2=2016&p2=lenal01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Len started 93 games of 189 played; Chandler started 107 of 181 played. Funny how you mention 'downward trend' when he played in more games, and started more games than either of his 1st two seasons...oops...1st 'myth' debunked'. He scored more PPG and had more TRB/gm last season than he did in either of his 1st two seasons....oops...2nd 'myth' debunked. Yet Chandler had fewer PPG and games played from his 2nd to 3rd season, yet amazingly, he survived his downward trend quite well wouldn't you say?

Yet Tyson outpaced Len in FG%s in his 1st 3 seasons. Well, I should hope so, since as you see below, nearly 60% of his shots were from 3ft in, whereas Len had just over 38% of his FGA from 3ft in. Yet, when we look at FT Attempts, we see that Len had the clear advantage of shooting FTs with a 71.4% clip compared to Chander's 61.8% FT%.

FG Atempts (3ft in/Total):
1st Season -- Len: 37 of 78 vs Chandler's: 202 of 304
2nd Season -- Len: 192 of 353 vs Chandler's: 282 of 484
3rd Season -- Len: 276 of 623 vs Chandler's: 79 of 159
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Total -- Len 405 of 1054 vs Chandler: 563 of 947
38.4% vs 59.5%

Then let's look at TRBs. Chandler, despite playing 297 total more minutes than Len during his 1st 3 seasons, ended up producing 20 total fewer TRBs than Len.

And how about per36 stats. Well, you'll see Len with .1 fewer Assts than Chandler, but again, outrebounding him 11.2 vs 10.1, but alas, with .2 total fewer pts per36, .4 fewer BLKS, though equal numbers of STLs and TOVs.
So, seeing that Len is actually IMPROVING, as opposed to this mythical 'downward trend' you speak of, and of which, includes Len's 14 Dbl-Dbls in his final 32 games of the season, and while yes, he has some work to do, and trails Chandler in many of the advanced stats, the fact that Len's had quite the surge in performance as soon as Watson took over for Hornacek. leads me to the assumption that he'll continue to improve, and thus, is FAR more likely to 'succeed' than to 'bust' as you are predicting him to.

Except we barely used Chandler properly. In fact most stats above are not that far apart. Of course Len will move quicker than Chandler. I will leave you with this:

Chandler won a championship. He wasn't a ring chaser. He was an integral part. Remove Chandler and the Mavericks would have NEVER won the championship against Miami.

Len can barely stay on the court. He can barely start on a SUNS team with how many centers? Really? He might be improving just like eventually Robin Lopez improved and became an average center. Remove Len and this team wouldn't even miss him for one second. He just simply doesn't matter.

Len does not have a future on this team. You know it. I know it. The entire SUNS organization knows it.

Well who's to say Len can't be an integral part of a championship team like Chandler at 29 as that is how old I think Chandler was at that point. The point he is trying to make is you keep praising Chandler for being so much better yet he was equally as "bad" as Len at the same age. Others see improvement and see a starting caliber center someday such as myself and many others. The dude is entering his fourth year and he knows more than anyone that this year will determine his next contract so he'll be working hard to improve.

I'm not saying Len cannot improve and become a better player. However we have new rookies coming in and I feel that his time on this team are numbered.

When Bledsoe, Knight, Warren, Chandler all played we were 10 wins, 14 losses.

Personally, i couldn't care less what our record is next year. As long as guys like Booker/Warren/Goodwin/Len/Bender/Chriss, and to a lesser extent Knight/Bledsoe, develop. There is nothing outside of Lebron/Durant who will make us the least bit relevent. So for us, like many teams, its about building for the years that follow.

I know there will be many complaining about yet another year missing the playoffs, and when we are 10/25 the same will be calling for Watson/McD's head. I really dont care. Next year is about youth, something we are FINALLY working with. Something that should have been done 2 years ago, and something that i'm excited about.

PREACH!

[NBA Fiend]

On second thought with the cap space just absorb Bogut for 2 first round picks since he only has one year left on his contract. If Golden State has any chance of getting Durant I believe teams will demand 2 first round picks for taking Bogut. I still think OKC does a S+T Kanter/pick and or player for Horford. Then Durant signs a 1+1. At the very least OKC gets a good run at a tile and Horford locked in regardless of what Durrant and Westbrook do next year

[BobbieL]

Something like this for a 3 way Bogut/pick to Suns, P.J. to G.S. Chandler to third team. G.S. buys out P.J. for the 1.5. The trade is an example only, any third ream will do.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zbyna2z

If the Warriors lose Barnes, wouldn't Tucker make some sense. Maybe doesn't pass the ball

I still think Bogut for Chandler works well - throw in a pick to the Suns. Straight up, dollars match

[NTB]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Suns/status/748593807306809344[/tweet]

Lol

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I'm not saying Len cannot improve and become a better player. However we have new rookies coming in and I feel that his time on this team are numbered.

I don't think so. The Warriors were hurting once Bogut went out. I know he's not part of their "death" lineup, but no NBA team is truly complete without a big man in the middle. You gotta have one.

Len's spot is fine. He may not play the most minutes, but he should be our starting center for years to come.

[carey]

I still think Bogut for Chandler works well - throw in a pick to the Suns. Straight up, dollars match

Almost every team has $20M in cap room. You don't have to worry about matching salaries right now.

Anyway, in a vacuum Bogut is better than Chandler. I don't know the extent of Bogut's injury though. It isn't like Chandler is the most durable guy either.