2016 Free Agency Thread

[codydaze]

Conley seems pretty much out of the picture, from everything I've seen it looks like he's either going to Dallas or Memphis. Wasn't holding out much hope either way but I'm hoping we sign Courtney Lee and swing a deal for Patrick Beverly. I wonder if a Gay/Koufos package could net us Ariza/Beverly. I would be fine with Gay for Beverly and either picks or Brewer if he was the price.

Ok Beverly is a good trade target as well. I still think Rubio gets the team involved more.

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Definitely. Just depends on what direction we will want to go. Rubio will be a better creator but Beverly can space the floor better. I think it would be a different situation for Collison as well. Rubio would start but I could see Beverly coming off the bench behind DC.

[PaKwAn]

if we plan on playing like the grizz then beverly for me would be a better fit.. i think cuz would love playing with someone that doesn't back down on opponents and give it all out in the court.. ariza would also be a great addition that would fit in nicely with this team.

[PaKwAn]

if the clips are serious in taking KD, i wouldn't mind taking redick if they decide to dump salary.

[SacKingZZZ]

Better than Kawhi Leonard/Danny Green? C'mon now. I would be really happy with getting Hill and a good 3/D SG, but let's temper those expectations just a bit.

Purely on defensive ability, yes. They are far more limited all around, but getting up into opponents and playing flat out Artest level, stifling defense, yes.

Here's a very interesting article on Lee in particular.

http://www.atthehive.com/2016/3/6/11167418/courtney-lees-impact-as-a-perimeter-defender

Now, neither is a full time starter for any team without it being a perfect fit (Kings maybe?) so it's hard to take lower minute role players and compare overall impact, but these guys flat out get it done on D.

You're joking, right? Kawhi Leonard is the 2-time reigning DPOY. Danny Green was 9th in the NBA in DRTG, 11th in Defensive Win Shares, and has been widely regarded for years as one of the premier 3/D players in the NBA. The Kings threw a big contract offer at him last summer for exactly those reasons, before he took less money to stay with the Spurs.

But they're no match for Courtney Lee and Solomon Hill???

Where did I say they were no match? I'm saying on pure one on one defensive ability, I think Lee and Hill could be tops if in the right system. Defensive stats like that are sketchy because the team will have an effect. There are some defensive stats that show Pau Gasol as a team backbone, go ask Bulls fans to put that into context for you.

Hill has a solid DFG% of 41%. Lee is at a nice 41.8%. Last year Danny Green was at a near flat rate +/- of 44% under a player average by about .3%. That shows when defending individual shots he didn't give up more than the players average but he also didn't have much of an effect. Danny Green regressed in almost all aspects of his game last year. I still like the eye test over stats because they are fairly subjective depending on the circumstances.

[SacKingZZZ]

By taking away their advantage of being able to circumvent the cap threshold. The cap going up will not change much in the end considering the deals might be proportional to the cap anyway so that space could go fast. On targets with a lower cap hold it would be better to disengage the current teams potential interest by giving up an asset in return. Teams with Bird rights can still circumvent the threshold right? That could prove to be advantageous enough that the Kings watch teams acquire their own targets while slotting in the Kings player of interest at the end. Then there is restricted FA of course, like with Crabbe.

With restricted FA it makes sense. But with unrestricted it doesn't really make much sense. Yes a team with Bird rights can circumvent the threshold. However, for example if the Hornets don't renounce Lee they still have his Bird rights and there is a cap hold which could potentially prevent them from signing other free agents. In the end, yes they could sign free agents with their remaining cap room and then offer him a contract that is larger than the cap hold. However, if the player wants to leave then their isn't much the team can do other than offer them more money and hope they decide to stay. As far as doing a sign and trade, the player would have had to already agree a contract with a new team so unless they were still just as interested in re-signing with their current team, a sign and trade just wouldn't make sense. With Anderson and Lee i think they both aren't very interested in staying with their current team.

The original comment was made towards the conversation about Crabbe, but the point is, it takes away the gamble of dealing with free agents since they get still get right up to the threshold with the hold taken into account and retain a free agent. As for Lee, his cap hold is around 9-10 million most likely but the Hornets have a ton of space. They can make moves and still account for that salary, or time it to where they could make it difficult for the Kings.

My concern if I were the Kings is players using the Kings as leverage because that's EXACTLY what happened last year most likely. That's why there are advantages in using a current team to help facilitate deals. If the Kings had more room than they do, then by all means, fire away and worry later, but they are in the bottom half right now in cap space.

[SacKingZZZ]

My free agency wish list:

Courtney Lee
Ryan Anderson


I'm not being greedy. Make it happen Vlade. Follow these signings up with a trade for Rubio.

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That would be nice, but what about a sign and trade for Delly using Kosta too? Using Rudy in a sign and trade for Ryno, and then signing Solomon Hill?

[SacKingZZZ]

Conley seems pretty much out of the picture, from everything I've seen it looks like he's either going to Dallas or Memphis. Wasn't holding out much hope either way but I'm hoping we sign Courtney Lee and swing a deal for Patrick Beverly. I wonder if a Gay/Koufos package could net us Ariza/Beverly. I would be fine with Gay for Beverly and either picks or Brewer if he was the price.

Pat Bev, Courtney Lee, and Solomon Hill.

[c3j3h]

Purely on defensive ability, yes. They are far more limited all around, but getting up into opponents and playing flat out Artest level, stifling defense, yes.

Here's a very interesting article on Lee in particular.

http://www.atthehive.com/2016/3/6/11167418/courtney-lees-impact-as-a-perimeter-defender

Now, neither is a full time starter for any team without it being a perfect fit (Kings maybe?) so it's hard to take lower minute role players and compare overall impact, but these guys flat out get it done on D.

You're joking, right? Kawhi Leonard is the 2-time reigning DPOY. Danny Green was 9th in the NBA in DRTG, 11th in Defensive Win Shares, and has been widely regarded for years as one of the premier 3/D players in the NBA. The Kings threw a big contract offer at him last summer for exactly those reasons, before he took less money to stay with the Spurs.

But they're no match for Courtney Lee and Solomon Hill???

Where did I say they were no match? I'm saying on pure one on one defensive ability, I think Lee and Hill could be tops if in the right system. Defensive stats like that are sketchy because the team will have an effect. There are some defensive stats that show Pau Gasol as a team backbone, go ask Bulls fans to put that into context for you.

Hill has a solid DFG% of 41%. Lee is at a nice 41.8%. Last year Danny Green was at a near flat rate +/- of 44% under a player average by about .3%. That shows when defending individual shots he didn't give up more than the players average but he also didn't have much of an effect. Danny Green regressed in almost all aspects of his game last year. I still like the eye test over stats because they are fairly subjective depending on the circumstances.

Stats are more subjective than the eye test??!?

So in 1 day I've got 1 guy arguing that Ricky Ledo is a misunderstood star, and another guy telling me that Courtney Lee and Solomon Hill would be a better defensive duo than 2-time reigning DPOY Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green. What a day! I'm honestly speechless.

[blind prophet]

Anyone meeting us at 12:01?

[City of Trees]

Anyone meeting us at 12:01?

DT




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[LightTheBeam]

Not that I am completely against going after Solomon Hill but with Gay and Casspi on the roster where does he fit? Then if we move Gay wouldn't we be looking for a better 3pt shooter than Hill??

City of trees maybe Im missing the ball on this one DT?

[City of Trees]

City of trees maybe Im missing the ball on this one DT?

DT= dial tone

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[KF10]

Conley seems pretty much out of the picture, from everything I've seen it looks like he's either going to Dallas or Memphis. Wasn't holding out much hope either way but I'm hoping we sign Courtney Lee and swing a deal for Patrick Beverly. I wonder if a Gay/Koufos package could net us Ariza/Beverly. I would be fine with Gay for Beverly and either picks or Brewer if he was the price.

Pat Bev, Courtney Lee, and Solomon Hill.

I would love this trio of players but we would be lucky to get 1/3 of that, imo.

Still, I would push hard for Conley, even though that is a pipe dream. Also, I would push for Bazemore first than if that fails, I go for Lee next.

[LightTheBeam]

Conley seems pretty much out of the picture, from everything I've seen it looks like he's either going to Dallas or Memphis. Wasn't holding out much hope either way but I'm hoping we sign Courtney Lee and swing a deal for Patrick Beverly. I wonder if a Gay/Koufos package could net us Ariza/Beverly. I would be fine with Gay for Beverly and either picks or Brewer if he was the price.

Pat Bev, Courtney Lee, and Solomon Hill.

I would love this trio of players but we would be lucky to get 1/3 of that, imo.

Still, I would push hard for Conley, even though that is a pipe dream. Also, I would push for Bazemore first than if that fails, I go for Lee next.

Agreed, even thought Conley is likely not walking through the door I would still try to get him here. Show him hes our first call at 12:01 and that we want to give him the keys. HE and Demarcus can be an excellent fit, WCS will be their defensive enforcer and then we will bring in his boy Courtney Lee, not to mention already having Gay, Koufos and Joerger! He was made to be our point guard!

[jeffjtk1234]

City of trees maybe Im missing the ball on this one DT?

DT= dial tone

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Made me chuckle. Well done


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[SacKingZZZ]

You're joking, right? Kawhi Leonard is the 2-time reigning DPOY. Danny Green was 9th in the NBA in DRTG, 11th in Defensive Win Shares, and has been widely regarded for years as one of the premier 3/D players in the NBA. The Kings threw a big contract offer at him last summer for exactly those reasons, before he took less money to stay with the Spurs.

But they're no match for Courtney Lee and Solomon Hill???

Where did I say they were no match? I'm saying on pure one on one defensive ability, I think Lee and Hill could be tops if in the right system. Defensive stats like that are sketchy because the team will have an effect. There are some defensive stats that show Pau Gasol as a team backbone, go ask Bulls fans to put that into context for you.

Hill has a solid DFG% of 41%. Lee is at a nice 41.8%. Last year Danny Green was at a near flat rate +/- of 44% under a player average by about .3%. That shows when defending individual shots he didn't give up more than the players average but he also didn't have much of an effect. Danny Green regressed in almost all aspects of his game last year. I still like the eye test over stats because they are fairly subjective depending on the circumstances.

Stats are more subjective than the eye test??!?

So in 1 day I've got 1 guy arguing that Ricky Ledo is a misunderstood star, and another guy telling me that Courtney Lee and Solomon Hill would be a better defensive duo than 2-time reigning DPOY Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green. What a day! I'm honestly speechless.

Please, no straw manning nor deflecting to save face, the stats I just showed you should leave you speechless, it pulls on the main thread of your argument to the point of unraveling. It shows very clearly that they are both above the second player you named in the combination. Leonard is undeniable, but this was discussing the COMBINATION at SG/SF.

And yes, looking at stats sometimes could even convince you that a team like the Warriors are light on wing defenders relative to the production someone like Lebron James put up in the finals. Stats don't always take situation completely into the equation.

[SacKingZZZ]

Not that I am completely against going after Solomon Hill but with Gay and Casspi on the roster where does he fit? Then if we move Gay wouldn't we be looking for a better 3pt shooter than Hill??

City of trees maybe Im missing the ball on this one DT?

Anywhere really. He can pretty solidly defend 1-4. I still like the idea of moving Gay for offense at PF and stacking all world 3 and D at PG, SG, and SF.

[SacKingZZZ]

Anyone meeting us at 12:01?

DT




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Lets just hope we don't find out that Vlade got so lonely he spent all the free agent money on those late night 900 numbers.

[City of Trees]

Anyone meeting us at 12:01?

DT




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Lets just hope we don't find out that Vlade got so lonely he spent all the free agent money on those late night 900 numbers.

Exactly! I can see it now Vlade calling one of those old "Call me now I'm waiting to talk to you "ads from late night television.


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[LightTheBeam]

Not that I am completely against going after Solomon Hill but with Gay and Casspi on the roster where does he fit? Then if we move Gay wouldn't we be looking for a better 3pt shooter than Hill??

City of trees maybe Im missing the ball on this one DT?

Anywhere really. He can pretty solidly defend 1-4. I still like the idea of moving Gay for offense at PF and stacking all world 3 and D at PG, SG, and SF.

Is he really a 3&D wing though? He certainly can play defense but the guy averages .325% from downtown on 1.3 3pt shots per game. Even last year when he had an increased role his % was the same. Im all for moving Gay for someone like Ariza who brings solid defense but also shot 37% on 6.2 3pt shots per game. I get hes older and has more miles but I don't think either player is the long term answer so why not try to get Ariza he has 2 years left with a combined 15 or so million owed to him, much better option than overpaying 4 years for Hill IMO.

Trade Koufos for a bag of chips, Gay for Ariza, if the Rockets want Koufos all the better. That opens up 13 million more in cap space bringing up somewhere between 45-50 million in space.

Courtney Lee - 3/40 million
Marvin Williams - 3/50 Million
Jeremy Lin - 2/30 million
Curry - Remaining money

Cousins/Papagiannis
WCS/Marvin/Skal
Ariza/Casspi/Marvin
Lee/McLemore/Richardson
Lin/Collison/Curry/Cousins

Send Skal and Cousins to D-league most of the year. Looks good to me.