2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC

[80sballboy]

Good news, Turner would be a great 6th man for us. He's got the offensive game that our 2nd unit desperately needs, and he can play multiple positions.

I wish I could share some of that enthusiasm, but Turner is nothing more than a mediocre player. He's a relatively low efficiency scorer and isn't even a threat from 3 point range. You almost have to have special qualities to be a good wing player without a 3 point show, and Turner just doesn't have any. I'd have no interest in acquiring him.

I'm with wizman on this one, ruz. Turner has been a disappointment overall -- obviously! -- given he was the #2 pick in the 2010 draft, but he has played quite well with the Celtics.

If you compare his numbers to Batum, all the non-shooting stuff is virtually identical. No edge for either guy. If you look at shooting, Batum produces better. Per 48 minutes, Batum takes 1.2 more shots and gets 2.4 more points out of them.

Now, Wizman is specifically wrong in praising Turner's offensive game. But, still, it's not terrible -- except for his 3pt. %. Given he doesn't shoot many of them, that's not as big a problem as it might be if he did, though of course it'd be even better if he shot lots more... and they went in!

But, he is a very solid player overall and well above average productivity-wise. TBH, he's not much under Batum overall. Putting it another way, he's underrated, and Batum is a little overrated. But Batum is going to get a *much* bigger payday than Turner.

If the price is right, Evan Turner would be a very good pick up for the Wizards.

Are you feeling ok? A positive outlook about a potential free agent? I think Turner is a poor man's Batum, which is fine as long as he gets around $10M or less. You can't ignore the three-point shooting. He's just not good where at least Batum is serviceable. I agree with the knock of Batum is that he's a little soft and maybe too unselfish, though in today's game, not necessarily a bad thing unless you're a superstar. Turner understands his role and will make people better. He might need to score more here depending on who we have on the 2nd unit.

[Dark Faze]

we're apparently interested in mo harkless

...

this is the darkest timeline

[80sballboy]

we're apparently interested in mo harkless

...

this is the darkest timeline

I heard that a couple of days ago and forgot about it and then I heard he might be getting $12M a year from somebody.
Interesting article about him
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/discarded-by-orlando-last-year-moe-harkless-proved-he-can-thrive-in-modern-nba/

[AFM]

Mo who? Lmao!!!!!

[payitforward]

wiz at least got a phone call this time!

At least Batum is a much better player than Evan Turner. Problem is - how does he fit - unless the Wiz aren't planning on keeping Beal? And we know the Wiz are planning on keeping Beal.

I'd would expect Otto to be the odd man out in a Batum scenario. Porter for a big would seem like the natural follow-up to a Batum signing. Maybe for Noel? Then split the rest of the cap space between Satoransky and Plumlee, while re-signing Beal and Temple?

Gortat/Plumlee
Noel/Morris
Batum/Oubre
Beal/Temple
Wall/Sato

I'm actually liking the look of that. Not crazy about paying both Beal and Batum over $20M per, but it's the new NBA. As long as we don't give Beal a 5th year, I can guess I can live with it.

Arrrgh, no, Rico, no! I'll never understand why this Board so regularly underrates Porter (along with overrating John Wall, btw, so it's not just negativism).

Compared to Batum, Otto scored 1.6 fewer points -- that's all. Is that a big deal? Well, it means something certainly! But... here's how did Batum got those 1.6 extra points. He used up a ton more possessions. He took more shots, had the ball more, and turned the ball over much much more. In other words, he was far less efficient overall than Otto.

Also less efficient in straight up shooting numbers: Otto Porter had a higher 2pt%, a higher 3pt%, a higher eFG% (obviously) and a higher TS% than Nicolas Batum. (OTOH, Batum provides a lot more assists -- his one advantage.)

Plus, Porter is a much better offensive rebounder, and he also gets 70% more steals than Batum. Steals and offensive boards give your team extra possessions. Overall -- looking at offensive boards, steals, turnovers, and shots taken -- Batum's 1.6 more points vs. Porter cost his team 6.3 extra possessions over having Porter on the floor. No thanks.

Otto is 23, he's gotten better every year and will keep getting better for a few years. He's still on a rookie contract. I wouldn't be interested in trading Porter straight up for Nic Batum, not even slightly interested.

Note, Ruz describes Batum as "a much better player than Evan Turner." He's better, yes, but it's a little better not a lot. And Turner is better than any wing we currently have except Porter. We could have Porter *and* Turner for less than Batum would cost.

Oh, and Porter for Noel? No thanks.

I should mention that I *like* Noel, and I also like Batum.

[AFM]

PIF I'm with you man. Otto is our second best player. I don't ant him to lose PT to Batum.

Would rather sign a good 4 or 5.
Unfortunately, there's almost no one worth signing, that wants to sign here.

[payitforward]

...(Evan Turner is) a ball dominant slasher.

Ummm, please support this statement, which I'd say is specifically untrue. Moreover, when a guy is on the floor, you get everything he does -- good and bad. If you want to say "Evan Turner shoots a bad 3pt%" that's true. But you also have to mention that he shoots few of them. That he shoots 83% from the line. That he gets a ton of assists. That he gets a ton of rebounds.

While he is shooting a low 3pt%, during those exact same minutes on the floor, he's getting you those boards, giving you those assists, rarely turning it over, etc. If the assessment doesn't include everything the guy does, then we're stuck in eye test territory -- which is like being a dance critic. You might as well be saying "I don't like the way that guy does a pas de deux" (or whatever -- I don't know much about ballet).

Something of a rant there... sorry! But what I say is correct. Does anyone know where Kevin is? I'm starting to get lonesome for someone else to carry the flag!!

[gambitx777]

PIF I'm with you man. Otto is our second best player. I don't ant him to lose PT to Batum.

Would rather sign a good 4 or 5.
Unfortunately, there's almost no one worth signing, that wants to sign here.

Andrew nicholson, he rebounds alright-ish, and he shoots well.....he can't really play D but that might b patched in some way since he is still young. he would be a nice plan D.

[payitforward]

PIF I'm with you man. Otto is our second best player. I don't ant him to lose PT to Batum.

Whew...

Would rather sign a good 4 or 5.
Unfortunately, there's almost no one worth signing, that wants to sign here.

TGW says he is as good as that Greek guy -- sign him.

Actually, I think there are guys. I think Aldrich would be productive. I'd love to have Quincy Acy. Not stars, these guys, but they will lift the overall performance level. Leuer is also there. I'd be happy having Booker back here. Again... these are not guys who are turning us into contenders right away, not even in the East. There is nobody who will come do that for us, alas.

[payitforward]

So what's the plan when we strike out on the top three tiers of players?

Let EG pay way to much for washed up below average players

You know it's not always easy to find those kinds of guys. Then again, Ernie is very skilled at it, isn't he?

[payitforward]

I wish I could share some of that enthusiasm, but Turner is nothing more than a mediocre player. He's a relatively low efficiency scorer and isn't even a threat from 3 point range. You almost have to have special qualities to be a good wing player without a 3 point show, and Turner just doesn't have any. I'd have no interest in acquiring him.

I'm with wizman on this one, ruz. Turner has been a disappointment overall -- obviously! -- given he was the #2 pick in the 2010 draft, but he has played quite well with the Celtics.

If you compare his numbers to Batum, all the non-shooting stuff is virtually identical. No edge for either guy. If you look at shooting, Batum produces better. Per 48 minutes, Batum takes 1.2 more shots and gets 2.4 more points out of them.

Now, Wizman is specifically wrong in praising Turner's offensive game. But, still, it's not terrible -- except for his 3pt. %. Given he doesn't shoot many of them, that's not as big a problem as it might be if he did, though of course it'd be even better if he shot lots more... and they went in!

But, he is a very solid player overall and well above average productivity-wise. TBH, he's not much under Batum overall. Putting it another way, he's underrated, and Batum is a little overrated. But Batum is going to get a *much* bigger payday than Turner.

If the price is right, Evan Turner would be a very good pick up for the Wizards.

Are you feeling ok? A positive outlook about a potential free agent? ...

Yeah, well don't start getting used to it, ok?

Actually, I posted a long piece about how best to get the nose of this plane up again, and it included Aldrich, Acy, Curry, etc. -- all FAs. Looking at it another way, you can see that I liked FAs from 2 of the first 3 letters in the alphabet. Hey, nobody's perfect, and I think that's pretty good!

[stevemcqueen1]

I wouldn't mind making an offer to Jared Sullinger right off the bat and trying to get him before the Celtics want to match.

[stevemcqueen1]

I read that we're going to sign Beal to a max deal as soon as midnight rolls around.

I could be wrong, but doesn't that unnecessarily change his cap commitment from the ~15 million dollar hold to a 22 million dollar hold? So we're essentially giving up 7 million in cap space to use at the beginning of FA for no reason? Moreoever, we're going to offer Beal a max deal without waiting for someone else to do it first, knowing that we can match??

[Dark Faze]

I read that we're going to sign Beal to a max deal as soon as midnight rolls around.

I could be wrong, but doesn't that unnecessarily change his cap commitment from the ~15 million dollar hold to a 22 million dollar hold? So we're essentially giving up 7 million in cap space to use at the beginning of FA for no reason? Moreoever, we're going to offer Beal a max deal without waiting for someone else to do it first, knowing that we can match??

its true

all of it

[stevemcqueen1]

I read that we're going to sign Beal to a max deal as soon as midnight rolls around.

I could be wrong, but doesn't that unnecessarily change his cap commitment from the ~15 million dollar hold to a 22 million dollar hold? So we're essentially giving up 7 million in cap space to use at the beginning of FA for no reason? Moreoever, we're going to offer Beal a max deal without waiting for someone else to do it first, knowing that we can match??

its true

all of it

Even if they agree tonight, we at least get the five days of the moratorium before that 7 million goes down the drain right?

[Wizardspride]

I read that we're going to sign Beal to a max deal as soon as midnight rolls around.

I could be wrong, but doesn't that unnecessarily change his cap commitment from the ~15 million dollar hold to a 22 million dollar hold? So we're essentially giving up 7 million in cap space to use at the beginning of FA for no reason? Moreoever, we're going to offer Beal a max deal without waiting for someone else to do it first, knowing that we can match??

They didn't say were signing him to a deal right away.


We're going to agree to a deal right away.

It's basically just to keep him from signing an offer sheet with another team and lessen our cap space.

[80sballboy]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/748730797440446464[/tweet]

Holy shi-t. A guy like Harkless is going to get $12-14M. Maybe more. This is going to be absurd.

[FAH1223]

I read that we're going to sign Beal to a max deal as soon as midnight rolls around.

I could be wrong, but doesn't that unnecessarily change his cap commitment from the ~15 million dollar hold to a 22 million dollar hold? So we're essentially giving up 7 million in cap space to use at the beginning of FA for no reason? Moreoever, we're going to offer Beal a max deal without waiting for someone else to do it first, knowing that we can match??

It's going to be a verbal agreement

Beal will sign after the Wiz sign an outside FA or two

[Wizardspride]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TheVertical/status/748733110208991232[/tweet]

[80sballboy]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/748734331099619328[/tweet]