The 2016 Offseason Thread (Post Draft)

[bwgood77]

Go get Jared Dudley and Derrick Williams on the cheap two year deals. Call it a day. Bazemore please no. Barnes, no. Oh, I also guarantee we will offer Len an extension as soon as possible to try and avoid giving him the max.

Dudley will probably get double digit per year, but I guess one could consider that cheap. Williams probably not, but he kind of sucks.

[carey]

Tucker, Knight, and some draft picks to get Blake Griffin if Durant wants to sign with Clippers ... hmmm a possible one year rental. I'm not sold on it.

http://valleyofthesuns.com/2016/06/30/kevin-durant-help-suns-get-blake-griffin/

No thank you.

[bwgood77]

So you can see the less athletic, 2.5" taller Rookie as a possibility at SF, but the guy who's proven to be able to shoot from outside (in games for long stretches), and by all accounts, is more athletic and if coached up properly, will be able to 'cover' the smaller, more agile 3s--that player you can't see as a 3?

LeBron James is nearly 6'9" and 250lbs. I don't know, but I'd feel better having the hyper-athletic, 6'10" 235lb guy covering LeBron more so than the average athletic, 7'.5" 216lb "bean pole" try to cover LeBron.

Chriss is closer in height and closer in athleticism than Bender, so I don't see how you can see Bender as being the better SF candidate.

No. I'm saying the guy who is already an unusually good defender and who has proven he can guard wings in spurts and who can handle the ball and pass like a wing is a better fit for SF than a super athletic but incredibly raw guy who has proven to foul at a near historic rate because he tries to block everything in site and has never played the 3 or on the wing in his entire basketball life, which is a whopping 5 years long.

If you want Chriss playing the 3 from scratch and learning an entirely new position while transitioning to the NBA. Okay, but that's a near guarantee to cap his upside and kill his career.

Ah, but that is not what you said...you are 'moving the goal-posts' now.

There's a big difference in what you said originally, to what you changed your story to later. Just because at one point in your career when you are 6'10" at the U16 level, you can guard "wings" in "spurs" does NOT make you the better candidate long-term to play the 3.

And I'm not talking out of the gate, either. You said "ever going to be", not "playing the 3 from scratch".

You might call I semantics, but I disagree. You are arguing separate points here. RIGHT NOW...as in their ROOKIE year, if I had to choose one, sure, I SMALL SPURTS. But 3-4 years down the road, when Chriss has the ability to learn the nuances of the game and defense...THATis when I believe Chriss will be the better candidate to play/defend the 3 on a whole than Bender will be able to. Sure, Bender moves well for a 7' 1" dude, and yes, he understands the gme better now which will get him by I short spurts, but Chriss has the athleticism edge on Bender, and let's face it, neither has great 'bend' to their game, but Chriss already has more of a "man' body" than Bender, and would expect that as Bender starts to transform more into a 'man's body'. He's going to have one heck of a time in keeping up with SF-types.

So again--big difference between "ever going to be" and "already better in short spurts".

There is definitely a chance Chriss plays SF at some point in his career and could because of his athleticism. Right now though, Bender is the better perimeter defender by far, better ball handler by far, and probably a better 3 pt shooter. His length will kill people (disruptive, blocking shots) on the perimeter. He has about the same length as Kawhi and has a body similar to Durant's but a little taller.

[carey]

What would the math be if he (Mozgov) was getting this same contract on last years salary cap?

$16M a year under the new cap would have been $11.9M under the old. Still quite a bit for Moz.

[bwgood77]

bw - love your Archie trade proposals in the mock offseason. Archie +2d for Thabo would be terrific.

Would've preferred Mirza to Leuer, but to each his own. Good job, mate

Archie deal almost went through, but he took Burke (or was going to) because they would take back Splitter...didn't think we needed a third center...long deal, though in hindsight it was only $8 million a year.

My Mirza dealing (had an offer at 11/per but rescinded it on second day) was because he was mulling between the Spurs and us, and I expected him to take our deal on the first day. I wouldn't want to be on hold and miss out on other guys, especially if you went to a team like the Spurs anyway. Personally I like Leuer better anyway.(this isn't real life, for those who don't realize we are talking about a mock).

I wasn't thinking about Ish either until some guys was going to sign him for 2/5. Thought that was bargain basement so went 2/8 with team option on 2nd.

[NavLDO]

Sorry guys but Len has been trash. I would rather keep Chandler. With the way Len has played last season Chandler has every reason to either be pissed at him or not talk to him at all.

Yeah, I guess the way Len outplayed Chandler last year might upset Chandler, but he shouldn't be too hard on himself; Chandler can't help that he's not talented enough to play two positions on the court like Len is able to do; but really, he shouldn't be upset at Len for Chandler's own lack of ability.

Len will not make it past this upcoming season if he continues that downward trend with injuries/piss poor performance...

Ah, another crystal-baller...and apparently, you completely ignored most of the info I provided, so there's no point in arguing with you on this. You act like you know something, yet you know nothing. That's the difference between types like you and types like me; you try to make statements of certainty, knowing it will never catch up with you on a message forum, and the rest of us, make statements of reason. So you go ahead and act like your an NBA GM...run along back to your NBA2K16, or whatever they call those things.

Since apparently you are more knowledgeable how about a sig bet? I'm going to say that Len is going to get injured again this year at least twice and of course it will be his ankle/foot.

Followed by excuses from everyone on this board about his performance being "limited" due to his injuries. Sound good?

You DO realize that he played in 78 of 82 games last year, right? And that Chandler missed more games due to injury than Len last year, right??

And what does missing a couple of games have ANYTHING to do with "Len not having a future on this team"... face it, you pounded your chest with hyperbole, and are now reduced to trying to make a sig bet that Len might miss game or two due to a foot or ankle injury to save face...LOL.

...Len can barely stay on the court. (Never realized 78 of 82 games meant "barely say on the court") He can barely start on a SUNS team with how many centers? Really? He might be improving just like eventually Robin Lopez improved and became an average center. Remove Len and this team wouldn't even miss him for one second.

I think he would have been missed for the 16 games that Chandler was injured last year...you know, 4x as many games a Len missed???

He just simply doesn't matter.

Len does not have a future on this team. You know it. I know it. The entire SUNS organization knows it.

And here's some info for you that might put some things into perspective for you:

9Feb2015--Steven Adams underwent surgery to repair a fractured right (shooting) hand, and he's expected to miss at least three weeks.

Gorgui Dieng -- 103 Gms Started (GS)
Steven Adams -- 167 GS
Rudy Gobert -- 97 GS
Alex Len -- 93 GS
Kelly Olynyk -- 30 GS
Mason Plumlee -- 149 GS

So, you mean to tell me that of the top 6 Centers that were drafted in 2013, that Adams "avg'd" the most GS with 55? I mean, the way you make it sound is that Len should have been starting every Suns game since he was drafted. I thought his performance was declining? Well, straight by the numbers, it might appear so, but again, Half the game Len started were at PF, NOT his natural position of Center, so yes, it would be expected that as his responsibilities are INCREASING with the team, there maybe so hiccups along the way.

And no, I will not 'sig bet' you on injuries...; that's in poor form.

But you keep telling yourself that Len is not important to the team, and that your idol, 34 YO Tyson Chandler, who's been traded half a dozen times...and oh yeah, hasn't made it through not ONE single season through 82 games...

[bwgood77]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/748877146240745473[/tweet]

For mobile users:

Adrian Wojnarowski
✔ ‎@WojVerticalNBA

Rival teams starting to take Dwyane Wade's free agency seriously, w/ GM's telling @TheVertical they've made multi-year offers to his reps.

Anyone interested?

I hope that's a joke. Honestly I hope we let the dust settle and go for value guys of who is left. I wouldn't even mind if we signed Troy Williams for 2/1.5, team option in second, and would have possibly done the same with Dorian Finney Smith if Dallas didn't nab him.

[bwgood77]

What would the math be if he (Mozgov) was getting this same contract on last years salary cap?

$16M a year under the new cap would have been $11.9M under the old. Still quite a bit for Moz.

You always have to overpay for centers though. If they are set at PG, SG and SF with Russell, Clarkson, and Ingram, and then Randle at PF, and since they have the most cap space of anyone, and the cap jumps HUGE next year, they probably decided to go for a C they knew they could get (couldn't get conversations with Whiteside, and of course Howard, and then Noah was obviously headed to NY to play with Rose..not sure how many others were out there). Remember Robin Lopez' deal last year? No one wants to go play with bottom feeders. That contract won't look as terrible next offseason...more like 15% of cap. They are going to have a hard time hitting the floor.

[bwgood77]

Sorry guys but Len has been trash. I would rather keep Chandler. With the way Len has played last season Chandler has every reason to either be pissed at him or not talk to him at all.

Yeah, I guess the way Len outplayed Chandler last year might upset Chandler, but he shouldn't be too hard on himself; Chandler can't help that he's not talented enough to play two positions on the court like Len is able to do; but really, he shouldn't be upset at Len for Chandler's own lack of ability.

Len will not make it past this upcoming season if he continues that downward trend with injuries/piss poor performance...

Ah, another crystal-baller...and apparently, you completely ignored most of the info I provided, so there's no point in arguing with you on this. You act like you know something, yet you know nothing. That's the difference between types like you and types like me; you try to make statements of certainty, knowing it will never catch up with you on a message forum, and the rest of us, make statements of reason. So you go ahead and act like your an NBA GM...run along back to your NBA2K16, or whatever they call those things.

Since apparently you are more knowledgeable how about a sig bet? I'm going to say that Len is going to get injured again this year at least twice and of course it will be his ankle/foot.

Followed by excuses from everyone on this board about his performance being "limited" due to his injuries. Sound good?

You DO realize that he played in 78 of 82 games last year, right? And that Chandler missed more games due to injury than Len last year, right??

And what does missing a couple of games have ANYTHING to do with "Len not having a future on this team"... face it, you pounded your chest with hyperbole, and are now reduced to trying to make a sig bet that Len might miss game or two due to a foot or ankle injury to save face...LOL.

...Len can barely stay on the court. (Never realized 78 of 82 games meant "barely say on the court") He can barely start on a SUNS team with how many centers? Really? He might be improving just like eventually Robin Lopez improved and became an average center. Remove Len and this team wouldn't even miss him for one second.

I think he would have been missed for the 16 games that Chandler was injured last year...you know, 4x as many games a Len missed???

He just simply doesn't matter.

Len does not have a future on this team. You know it. I know it. The entire SUNS organization knows it.

And here's some info for you that might put some things into perspective for you:

9Feb2015--Steven Adams underwent surgery to repair a fractured right (shooting) hand, and he's expected to miss at least three weeks.

Gorgui Dieng -- 103 Gms Started (GS)
Steven Adams -- 167 GS
Rudy Gobert -- 97 GS
Alex Len -- 93 GS
Kelly Olynyk -- 30 GS
Mason Plumlee -- 149 GS

So, you mean to tell me that of the top 6 Centers that were drafted in 2013, that Adams "avg'd" the most GS with 55? I mean, the way you make it sound is that Len should have been starting every Suns game since he was drafted. I thought his performance was declining? Well, straight by the numbers, it might appear so, but again, Half the game Len started were at PF, NOT his natural position of Center, so yes, it would be expected that as his responsibilities are INCREASING with the team, there maybe so hiccups along the way.

And no, I will not 'sig bet' you on injuries...; that's in poor form.

But you keep telling yourself that Len is not important to the team, and that your idol, 34 YO Tyson Chandler, who's been traded half a dozen times...and oh yeah, hasn't made it through not ONE single season through 82 games...

Len probably has a future. We will have to see how he plays this season, but to go out and sign someone else next offseason it would have to be outrageous. We probably keep him and draft a C next year unless Alan Williams somehow breaks out. I was looking at his China stats yesterday and they were impressive....I know, China...but check them out.

[gaspar]

Gotta love RealGM.

Clarkson and Lin for $12M per year? That's very reasonable.
Knight for $14M per year? Worst contract in the league since Rashard Lewis.

[NTB]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/FrankyG_/status/732984897317437441[/tweet]

@JaredDudley619: Yes but then I remember they only like players with 2 % body fat lol


LOOOOL

[AZWildByNature]

Does anyone else have a feeling the Suns will sign Jeff Green for 2 years $50 Million?

[JMac1]

I think Len is perfect for what we have in mind going forward. The major reason these other guys are getting so much hype (remember Mozgov in last year's playoffs?) is because they are playing for winners.

I can imagine what the media would have said about Len if his Feb/March run was for OKC. Last's year's per was 14 and 12....LOL! And some of you guys are griping about his shooting percentage.....put him on the line with a Hack a' Len and watch him shoot 73%.

Adams, Gobert, TT, and the rest of those "studs" are offensive bums who can't be trusted to be on the court in close games because they can't shoot FT's, pathetic, and that neutralizes their defense when it matters most.

If we told Len to just run around and play D and reb he'd be just as good as those guys, but we told him to go be Shaq or Tim D shooting from the elbow, then get pissed when he isn't and envy guys who shoot well because of dunks and put backs....

[NTB]

Does anyone else have a feeling the Suns will sign Jeff Green for 2 years $50 Million?

[carey]

Does anyone else have a feeling the Suns will sign Jeff Green for 2 years $50 Million?

I do not have that feeling. Hehe.

[JMac1]

Does anyone else have a feeling the Suns will sign Jeff Green for 2 years $50 Million?

No.

[DRK]

Really? Giving up on Len so early?

Len has shown alot more than Lopez did when he was here, and Lopez is currently viewed as a starting quality center around the league.

Give Len some time, for crying out loud.

[King4Day]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/748877146240745473[/tweet]

For mobile users:

Adrian Wojnarowski
✔ ‎@WojVerticalNBA

Rival teams starting to take Dwyane Wade's free agency seriously, w/ GM's telling @TheVertical they've made multi-year offers to his reps.

Anyone interested?

I hope that's a joke. Honestly I hope we let the dust settle and go for value guys of who is left. I wouldn't even mind if we signed Troy Williams for 2/1.5, team option in second, and would have possibly done the same with Dorian Finney Smith if Dallas didn't nab him.

I didn't say, "who's on board with me, let's sign him."

I'm just saying, how do people feel about this news and would anyone want to change directions and make a run at him?

[King4Day]

Does anyone else have a feeling the Suns will sign Jeff Green for 2 years $50 Million?

Sweet lord I hope not.
I wonder what he'll get. Maybe a 2 or 3 year deal for around 16mil per.

[JMac1]

Side note:

We have all the pieces in place, except maybe SF (depending on the two draftees and Warren's growth) for now. Now it is time to see if they are the truth, that does not involve over paying "stop gap" bums. No need to interfere with anyone's playing time trying for a playoff push. If we suck fine, if we are better than expected (which is what I expect), fine, still don't make some dumb trade to make a playoff push.

If we win or lose it has to be with the guys we have now, then reassess next year during the draft and FA period.