The AL Horford Dilemma

[Jamaaliver]

Marc Stein predicts Dwight ends up in Atlanta (though it isn't a sure thing) and that Horford gets snatched away by a EC Contender.

Here

Beginning at 3:11 mark



With all these teams willing to throw a max contract at Horford...we just need to bite the bullet, offer the full 5 year max and trust that we can move him for value should the need arise.

(Next summer to Portland McCollum, to DET for KCP, to BOS for a lottery pick, etc)

[Skyhawk1]

There's only one big loser in keeping Horford on a max deal for 5 years and it's not him. Guys, the Blazers let Aldridge go and look at them. Horford is a PF/C that plays on the perimeter, while he's got great fundaments he's been the same since day 1. I appreciate every thing he's done for us but letting him go is the best deal for the Hawks. We also need to trade Millsap before he commands 30M/season next year. We are too far away from realistically contending to keep the 2 of them. Durant isn't coming here, maybe not even D. Howard at this stage of his career is. We got it right by trading away Teague and giving the keys to Dennis. We just drafted 2 wings, our team is not set up to contend next season or the one after. This is not about keeping a good product on the floor so people will care about the Hawks. It's about getting a star ( Karl A. Towns , Anthony Davis, even D. Cousins) through the draft and waiting the right time to put the pieces together. I'm all in for a rebuilding. With Horford leading us, we will be the 4th seed in the East at best for the next 5 years.

[jayu70]

There's only one big loser in keeping Horford on a max deal for 5 years and it's not him. Guys, the Blazers let Aldridge go and look at them. Horford is a PF/C that plays on the perimeter, while he's got great fundaments he's been the same since day 1. I appreciate every thing he's done for us but letting him go is the best deal for the Hawks. We also need to trade Millsap before he commands 30M/season next year. We are too far away from realistically contending to keep the 2 of them. Durant isn't coming here, maybe not even D. Howard at this stage of his career is. We got it right by trading away Teague and giving the keys to Dennis. We just drafted 2 wings, our team is not set up to contend next season or the one after. This is not about keeping a good product on the floor so people will care about the Hawks. It's about getting a star ( Karl A. Towns , Anthony Davis, even D. Cousins) through the draft and waiting the right time to put the pieces together. I'm all in for a rebuilding. With Horford leading us, we will be the 4th seed in the East at best for the next 5 years.

I keep seeing that but that is not entirely true - Aldridge was READY and WANTED to leave: there were rumblings all during that season, he didn't like Lillard's emerging spotlight etc., from all accounts Al did not have that mindset. Additionally, it was easy for Portland to make the transition from Aldridge because they had Lillard. Who does the Hawks have of that calibre? NO ONE.
And this isn't about keeping Al or not just pointing out that the situation is not close to similar.

[Andre Roberstan]

Just stopping in for an FYI on the Horford numbers to OKC and how it would work. Sure, you could S&T, but that's unlikely. More likely (especially based on the Windhorst article) is this:

Cut cap holds for Randy Foye, Nazr Mohammed, Dion Waiters

Waive Ilyasova and Morrow (Morrow could be fine, depending on final cap numbers)

Dump Kanter and Singler. Add McGary, possibly.

Sign Horford to full max, fill out roster with room exception and minimums, either vets or guys in our development pipeline.

And I tend to agree with the view that Kanter in particular won't be too hard to move. The kicker's not bad, because the last year is unguaranteed and the kicker is capped at his max and spread over 2 years—it only comes to about $2.5mil a year. Marvin Williams is about to get 18 million dollars.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Just stopping in for an FYI on the Horford numbers to OKC and how it would work. Sure, you could S&T, but that's unlikely. More likely (especially based on the Windhorst article) is this:

Cut cap holds for Randy Foye, Nazr Mohammed, Dion Waiters

Waive Ilyasova and Morrow (Morrow could be fine, depending on final cap numbers)

Dump Kanter and Singler. Add McGary, possibly.

Sign Horford to full max, fill out roster with room exception and minimums, either vets or guys in our development pipeline.

And I tend to agree with the view that Kanter in particular won't be too hard to move. The kicker's not bad, because the last year is unguaranteed and the kicker is capped at his max and spread over 2 years—it only comes to about $2.5mil a year. Marvin Williams is about to get 18 million dollars.

I personally think Horford would sign with OKC for a discount considering the team he would be going to(Durant and WB), plus Donovan being the HC.

[D21]

...Sure, you could S&T, but that's unlikely. More likely (especially based on the Windhorst article) is this:
...

Sure you can do it like that, but it can also be less interesting for Al to join a team where lots of role player are cut.
By doing a sign-&-trade, and without matching salaries, you can keep some players and have a better team, and more chance he would want to join OKC

[Andre Roberstan]

...Sure, you could S&T, but that's unlikely. More likely (especially based on the Windhorst article) is this:
...

Sure you can do it like that, but it can also be less interesting for Al to join a team where lots of role player are cut.
By doing a sign-&-trade, and without matching salaries, you can keep some players and have a better team, and more chance he would want to join OKC

Pretty much everyone we'd be cutting would be dead weight or replaced by better options. Foye would be an option to come back for minimum. Huestis offers you pretty much everything Singler does at this point. Dipo is a better Dion. Morrow would be nice to keep, but they might still be able to make it work. Ilya can be replaced by McGary and/or Sabonis, and Horford is a better version of Kanter.

Fill out the end of the bench with maybe Wesley Johnson, Randy Foye and...IDK, Perkins?...and you've got a decent enough bench, especially considering one of Durant/Westbrook/Horford/Dipo is likely to be on the floor with them at all times.

[D21]

...Fill out the end of the bench with maybe Wesley Johnson, Randy Foye and...IDK, Perkins?...and you've got a decent enough bench, especially considering one of Durant/Westbrook/Horford/Dipo is likely to be on the floor with them at all times.

That's right, it would be a great team enough.
Since we can Max Durant, even if he won't listen and that it would cost us Bazemore, how would you compare it to :
Schröder/Sefolosha/Durant/Millsap/Horford with Korver/Hardaway Jr/Splitter some filler and the new rookies coming off the bench ?

[bondom34]

Heck you want him I'd sign and trade, I just want Horford.

[hawkschop1]

I'm cool with doing a S&T Horford for Kanter at this point man. Lets just keep Bazemore at all costs. (pun intended)

[hawkschop1]

#bringbackmarvin

[Pillendreher]

There's a half dozen C's on the market better than Kanter that will barely cost more.

Nosh and Mozgov already with way worse contracts and those types of deals will keep coming with this older Centers. Kanter's contract is looking better with each fa-signing.

[MaceCase]

There's a half dozen C's on the market better than Kanter that will barely cost more.

Nosh and Mozgov already with way worse contracts and those types of deals will keep coming with this older Centers. Kanter's contract is looking better with each fa-signing.

What am I missing? They have near identical contracts. These are guys proven to be able to anchor a defense, Kanter's offense is nice but the current NBA has shown that teams will sacrifice scoring from the center position for the ability to cover the myriad of pick and rolls that every team runs. Each signing should actually make you more nervous as that's one less destination that you can dump Kanter's contract.

[Jamaaliver]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

...the Thunder, as Brian Windhorst reported they intended to as part of Durant pitch.

Are we seriously going to let the single most valuable asset this franchise has held in decades walk away for nothing?

[Pillendreher]

There's a half dozen C's on the market better than Kanter that will barely cost more.

Nosh and Mozgov already with way worse contracts and those types of deals will keep coming with this older Centers. Kanter's contract is looking better with each fa-signing.

What am I missing? They have near identical contracts. These are guys proven to be able to anchor a defense, Kanter's offense is nice but the current NBA has shown that teams will sacrifice scoring from the center position for the ability to cover the myriad of pick and rolls that every team runs. Each signing should actually make you more nervous as that's one less destination that you can dump Kanter's contract.

Kanter has way higher upside than both those guys. Noah can't stay on the court to save his life and Mozgov hasn't done **** expect playing decently when everybody else was hurt a year ago.
Both will be way over 30 when those contracts end and the way both have been performing these past couple of months/years, everybody knows those last years with that kind of money are going to be rough to say the least

[MaceCase]

Nosh and Mozgov already with way worse contracts and those types of deals will keep coming with this older Centers. Kanter's contract is looking better with each fa-signing.

What am I missing? They have near identical contracts. These are guys proven to be able to anchor a defense, Kanter's offense is nice but the current NBA has shown that teams will sacrifice scoring from the center position for the ability to cover the myriad of pick and rolls that every team runs. Each signing should actually make you more nervous as that's one less destination that you can dump Kanter's contract.

Kanter has way higher upside than both those guys. Noah can't stay on the court to save his life and Mozgov hasn't done **** expect playing decently when everybody else was hurt a year ago.
Both will be way over 30 when those contracts end and the way both have been performing these past couple of months/years, everybody knows those last years with that kind of money are going to be rough to say the least

And Kanter is a rich man's Marreese Speights.

[Pillendreher]

What am I missing? They have near identical contracts. These are guys proven to be able to anchor a defense, Kanter's offense is nice but the current NBA has shown that teams will sacrifice scoring from the center position for the ability to cover the myriad of pick and rolls that every team runs. Each signing should actually make you more nervous as that's one less destination that you can dump Kanter's contract.

Kanter has way higher upside than both those guys. Noah can't stay on the court to save his life and Mozgov hasn't done **** expect playing decently when everybody else was hurt a year ago.
Both will be way over 30 when those contracts end and the way both have been performing these past couple of months/years, everybody knows those last years with that kind of money are going to be rough to say the least

And Kanter is a rich man's Marreese Speights.

Kanter is a vastly superior player compared to Speights.

[King Ken]

Kanter has way higher upside than both those guys. Noah can't stay on the court to save his life and Mozgov hasn't done **** expect playing decently when everybody else was hurt a year ago.
Both will be way over 30 when those contracts end and the way both have been performing these past couple of months/years, everybody knows those last years with that kind of money are going to be rough to say the least

And Kanter is a rich man's Marreese Speights.

Kanter is a vastly superior player compared to Speights.

Not really. He sucks on defense even worse than Speights. At least Speights shoots threes and a solid clip. There are a bunch of players like Kanter that no one wants like Greg Monroe, Al Jefferson and there are players with better potential like Okafor who we didn't want much less someone like Kanter who is a terrible contract for us or any team who has to rely on his as a starter.

[ATL Boy]

I really wish we would just stop messing around at this point and offer Al the 5th year. The last thing I want to do is lose him for nothing, whether Dwight signs or not.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Jamaaliver]

I really wish we would just stop messing around at this point and offer Al the 5th year. The last thing I want to do is lose him for nothing, whether Dwight signs or not.

Agreed. Do it, or don't.


He has the leverage, and he ain't accepting 4 years from us.

Even if we remove ourselves from negotiations. Just make a decision and proceed.

Five more years of Al...or zero.