Courtney Lee to the Knicks 4/$50M UPDATE PG. 16

Mecca · Post #221 » by **Mecca** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 5:57 pm

How about we think outside the box? Lance Stephonson would be the perfect backup guard for us. He can run the offense for the second unit and give us another tough perimeter defender. If we get Lee, I'd love to see us move KOQ and platoon Lance/Lee.

ORANGEandBLUE · Post #222 » by **ORANGEandBLUE** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:01 pm

knickstape4ever wrote:Lee is the definition of meh player. there is a reason he seems to be traded every year for marginal players...at least Gordon is a high upside player when healthy and may come cheaper. Lord knows we need to save a few mil seeing as there are so many open roster spots. Lee is also on the wrong side of 30 and while his defense, while good, is being overrated. Also Gordon's defense is being underrated because of his injury history but he is average

At best, Gordon's on-ball effectiveness is about equal to Lee's off-ball effectiveness. It's just a question of what skill is more needed. Who would you rather have standing in the corner in a playoff team while Melo iso's?

Triple C · Post #223 » by **Triple C** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:03 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/749301861673500672[/tweet]

Polk377 · Post #224 » by **Polk377** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:04 pm

Triple C wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/749301861673500672[/tweet]

Sixers are about to offer him $18 mil.......

knickstape4ever · Post #225 » by **knickstape4ever** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:05 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:Lee is the definition of meh player. there is a reason he seems to be traded every year for marginal players...at least Gordon is a high upside player when healthy and may come cheaper. Lord knows we need to save a few mil seeing as there are so many open roster spots. Lee is also on the wrong side of 30 and while his defense, while good, is being overrated. Also Gordon's defense is being underrated because of his injury history but he is average

Don't we need a +defender at the SG spot given that Rose is our PG?

I think it's entirely possible that Rose plays better D this season another season removed from surgeries as well as no orbital fracture. Also Rose wasn't as bad as everyone is saying on D. Opponents shot only +.4% better vs. him than avg, compared to Calderon (+3.1%). So we've already upgraded PG defense. Not to mention Noah was just signed to a 72 mil contract to play defense

DaGawd · Post #226 » by **DaGawd** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:05 pm

Let him do back to the Nets

knickstape4ever · Post #227 » by **knickstape4ever** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:06 pm

Polk377 wrote:
Triple C wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/749301861673500672[/tweet]

Sixers are about to offer him $18 mil.......

hope they do. much prefer Gordon, who if healthy (I know its a kinda a big if) has way more upside

Polk377 · Post #228 » by **Polk377** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:11 pm

knickstape4ever wrote:
Polk377 wrote:
Triple C wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/749301861673500672[/tweet]

Sixers are about to offer him $18 mil.......

hope they do. much prefer Gordon, who if healthy (I know its a kinda a big if) has way more upside

I like Gordon better as an offensive weapon but Lee is a much better defender and intangibles guy. I would be happy with either really.

knickstape4ever · Post #229 » by **knickstape4ever** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:17 pm

Polk377 wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:
Polk377 wrote:Sixers are about to offer him $18 mil.......

hope they do. much prefer Gordon, who if healthy (I know its a kinda a big if) has way more upside

I like Gordon better as an offensive weapon but Lee is a much better defender and intangibles guy. I would be happy with either really.

Lee is being overrated as a defender and Gordon underrated. Lee is above avg but not great. and Gordon is avg. I'd love to see the pairing of Rose and Gordon like old times. I think it would invigorate them both. Also say Rose gets hurt, our backcourt scoring would be severely hindered with just Lee, but with Gordon who is more versatile, we wouldn't suffer too much

BeagleBoss · Post #230 » by **BeagleBoss** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:17 pm

Gordon never came across to me as a bad defender. Is he THAT bad? Can anyone post some stats?

knicksrbake · Post #231 » by **knicksrbake** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:19 pm

BeagleBoss wrote:Gordon never came across to me as a bad defender. Is he THAT bad? Can anyone post some stats?

Lee

Gordon

Polk377 · Post #232 » by **Polk377** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:22 pm

knickstape4ever wrote:
Polk377 wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:
hope they do. much prefer Gordon, who if healthy (I know its a kinda a big if) has way more upside

I like Gordon better as an offensive weapon but Lee is a much better defender and intangibles guy. I would be happy with either really.

Lee is being overrated as a defender and Gordon underrated. Lee is above avg but not great. and Gordon is avg. I'd love to see the pairing of Rose and Gordon like old times. I think it would invigorate them both. Also say Rose gets hurt, our backcourt scoring would be severely hindered with just Lee, but with Gordon who is more versatile, we wouldn't suffer too much

Lee is tenacious and doesn't quit on the defensive end. He played Wade great in the playoffs last year and made him work for everything. To be honest I don'r really know what Gordon can do on the defensive end. Lee also has a track record of going to a team and effecting their record in a positive way. Look at Charlotte pre Lee vs after and same for Memphis with Lee and after.

HKSVIP · Post #233 » by **HKSVIP** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:27 pm

knicksrbake wrote:
BeagleBoss wrote:Gordon never came across to me as a bad defender. Is he THAT bad? Can anyone post some stats?

Lee

Gordon

Can somebody explain the algorithm for Offensive rating and defensive rating?

Im Coming Home · Post #234 » by **Im Coming Home** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:28 pm

knicksrbake wrote:
BeagleBoss wrote:Gordon never came across to me as a bad defender. Is he THAT bad? Can anyone post some stats?

Lee

Gordon

So Gordon is the better defensive player based on DRTG?

knicksrbake · Post #235 » by **knicksrbake** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:29 pm

Im Coming Home wrote:
knicksrbake wrote:
BeagleBoss wrote:Gordon never came across to me as a bad defender. Is he THAT bad? Can anyone post some stats?

Lee

Gordon

So Gordon is the better defensive player based on DRTG?

No, the DRTG means that that's the amount of points allowed per 100 possessions. So, for every 100 possessions with him in the lineup, 113 points are scored. He's a worse defender based on DRTG. Obviously this is not the be-all-end-all of metrics, but it is one metric in which one's defensive ability is measured.

Priggy Smalls · Post #236 » by **Priggy Smalls** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:32 pm

Triple C wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/749301861673500672[/tweet]

those teams are probably willing to offer more than us. just depends on if lee wants any chance at winning some games in the next few years.

then it's us or the wolves.

Im Coming Home · Post #237 » by **Im Coming Home** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:33 pm

knicksrbake wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:
knicksrbake wrote:Lee
Spoiler:

Gordon
Spoiler:

So Gordon is the better defensive player based on DRTG?

No, the DRTG means that that's the amount of points allowed per 100 possessions. So, for every 100 possessions with him in the lineup, 113 points are scored. He's a worse defender based on DRTG. Obviously this is not the be-all-end-all of metrics, but it is one metric in which one's defensive ability is measured.

Ah ok thanks for clearing that up. 'Rating' to me implied how good not how bad. :lol:

Is 107 to 113 a huge difference in terms of DRTG or is that only as minor as it seems?

Post #238 » by **GONYK** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:36 pm

Im Coming Home wrote:
knicksrbake wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:So Gordon is the better defensive player based on DRTG?

No, the DRTG means that that's the amount of points allowed per 100 possessions. So, for every 100 possessions with him in the lineup, 113 points are scored. He's a worse defender based on DRTG. Obviously this is not the be-all-end-all of metrics, but it is one metric in which one's defensive ability is measured.

Ah ok thanks for clearing that up. 'Rating' to me implied how good not how bad.

Is 107 to 113 a huge difference in terms of DRTG or is that only as minor as it seems?

It is a massive difference. To put it in perspective, Calderon's DRTG was 110

iAdoreeKnicks · Post #239 » by **iAdoreeKnicks** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:40 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/749311518882181121[/tweet]

The Knicks' offer to Courtney Lee is north of $10 million per year for 4 years, per sources. Many in the Knicks organization would love to see Lee sign, but New York will have competition from teams that can probably offer a contract with a higher annual value. Lee is considering other offers. After signing Joakim Noah, the Knicks project to have at least $12 million in cap space. That cap space can increase, of course, if they trade a player to a team that has enough cap space to absorb the contract. In addition to Lee, the Knicks have shown interest in Austin Rivers and Eric Gordon, per sources. They have also had contact with Dwyane Wade, according to ESPN's Brian Windhorst.

HarthorneWingo · Post #240 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Sat Jul 2, 2016 6:41 pm

GONYK wrote:
Im Coming Home wrote:
knicksrbake wrote:No, the DRTG means that that's the amount of points allowed per 100 possessions. So, for every 100 possessions with him in the lineup, 113 points are scored. He's a worse defender based on DRTG. Obviously this is not the be-all-end-all of metrics, but it is one metric in which one's defensive ability is measured.

Ah ok thanks for clearing that up. 'Rating' to me implied how good not how bad.

Is 107 to 113 a huge difference in terms of DRTG or is that only as minor as it seems?

It is a massive difference. To put it in perspective, Calderon's DRTG was 110

So last year, Calderon's defense was better than Gordon's.

Ok. That certainly puts things in perspective.