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2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC

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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1621 » by nate33 » Mon Jul 4, 2016 1:23 pm

DCZards wrote:
payitforward wrote:At the 3, I expect Porter to continue to improve, but we're counting on a raw recruit Oubre to back him up. Will Sato play some at the 3? At the 2, there's hope for Beal to improve and hope for Satoransky to be really good. Perhaps it's more realistic to think that Beal remains as he has been and Satoransky experiences some bumps in the road as an NBA rookie. It's a question whether we'll be better at the 2


Why is it "more realistic" that Beal remains the same? Isn’t it just as realistic that Beal will get better? Most 23 year olds do. There was improvement last season...fewer long two pters. and more attacking the basket. Why shouldn’t we expect that to continue? Beal just needs to stay healthy.

Actually, 23-year-olds with 4 years under their belt don't typically improve all that much. And Beal hasn't shown any real statistical improvement in his entire career. His PER, WS/48 and ORtg have remained essentially flat, as has his assists, rebounds, steals, FT Rate and 3P%. And last season, his defense was atrocious.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1622 » by dckingsfan » Mon Jul 4, 2016 1:28 pm

So, this is it so far? We have two more to add...

Code: Select all

PG   Wall      Burke   
SG   Beal      Satoransky   Eddie
SF   Porter    Oubre   
PF   Morris    Nicholson    Gooden
C    Gortat    Mahinmi   

At this point we could be a 35 win team if any of the following: Wall knees don't cooperate. Beal is his usual oft injured self. Morris blows up with the coach. None of Beal, Porter or Oubre take a big jump.

We could be a 50 win team if Wall (and the rest of the roster) is healthy. One of our young players takes a big jump.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1623 » by queridiculo » Mon Jul 4, 2016 1:38 pm

For what it's worth, the Wizards managed to put together a team of character guys that will put in the work, and have a good mix of vets and young players with playoff experience as well as young players that have a realistic chance to improve.

Whether Brooks is the guy that can get Beal, Oubre, Porter and Wall to take another step remains to be seen, but from a depth perspective I think the Wizards are already looking a lot better than last years squad.

The Wizards have a group of guys I won't have a problem rooting for, it's too bad that the rest of the organization is such a cluster ****.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1624 » by dckingsfan » Mon Jul 4, 2016 1:40 pm

PerkinsFor3 wrote:
da pmp wrote: You are clearly better than Boston and Toronto


ok.

Yeah, I kind of have (FA isn't over) it so far as:

Cleveland
Boston
Toronto
Detroit
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1625 » by nate33 » Mon Jul 4, 2016 1:42 pm

dckingsfan wrote:So, this is it so far? We have two more to add...

Code: Select all

PG   Wall      Burke   
SG   Beal      Satoransky   Eddie
SF   Porter    Oubre   
PF   Morris    Nicholson    Gooden
C    Gortat    Mahinmi   

At this point we could be a 35 win team if any of the following: Wall knees don't cooperate. Beal is his usual oft injured self. Morris blows up with the coach. None of Beal, Porter or Oubre take a big jump.

We could be a 50 win team if Wall (and the rest of the roster) is healthy. One of our young players takes a big jump.

I see no possibility of 50 wins. I think we need unexpectedly good health AND one of Porter/Beal to make a big jump just to get to 45 wins. With a normal season (Beal misses 20 games, another starter misses 10), I don't see how we break 40 wins.

Mahinmi is worse than Nene (who actually had a real good season last year). Nicholson is worse than Dudley. Burke is worse than Sessions. Oubre may or may not be worse than Gary Neal. And I don't think Sato, in his debut season, will be more effective than Temple. Basically EVERY player on our bench is worse than what we had last year with the possible exception of Oubre over Neal. Among our starters, Wall, Morris and Gortat have surely peaked and will probably be about the same as last year. Porter will probably improve. Beal might improve a little bit, but he could also miss 35 games.
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Re: Re: Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1626 » by nuposse04 » Mon Jul 4, 2016 1:43 pm

nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
payitforward wrote:At the 3, I expect Porter to continue to improve, but we're counting on a raw recruit Oubre to back him up. Will Sato play some at the 3? At the 2, there's hope for Beal to improve and hope for Satoransky to be really good. Perhaps it's more realistic to think that Beal remains as he has been and Satoransky experiences some bumps in the road as an NBA rookie. It's a question whether we'll be better at the 2


Why is it "more realistic" that Beal remains the same? Isn’t it just as realistic that Beal will get better? Most 23 year olds do. There was improvement last season...fewer long two pters. and more attacking the basket. Why shouldn’t we expect that to continue? Beal just needs to stay healthy.

Actually, 23-year-olds with 4 years under their belt don't typically improve all that much. And Beal hasn't shown any real statistical improvement in his entire career. His PER, WS/48 and ORtg have remained essentially flat, as has his assists, rebounds, steals, FT Rate and 3P%. And last season, his defense was atrocious.


His ws48, ts and ortg could improve if we stop having him initiate the offense the way we have. More threes, more dribble drives off fakes and catch and shoot situations. I do think he can become a competent defender again. He seemed pretty decent in that facet in year two and three but last year was just horrendous.

But the biggest issue is health, if any of these improvements are to manifest. I'd be happy if we got 70 games out of him... Which I doubt will happen :/
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1627 » by dckingsfan » Mon Jul 4, 2016 1:55 pm

Well, if Porter or Beal take a Jimmy Butler jump... then we get to 50. If lots go wrong then we get to 35 or so. If you are asking me to guess - I would say 41 - but I want to see how the rest of the east plays out.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1628 » by Upper Decker » Mon Jul 4, 2016 2:18 pm

dckingsfan wrote:So, this is it so far? We have two more to add...

Code: Select all

PG   Wall      Burke   
SG   Beal      Satoransky   Eddie
SF   Porter    Oubre   
PF   Morris    Nicholson    Gooden
C    Gortat    Mahinmi   

At this point we could be a 35 win team if any of the following: Wall knees don't cooperate. Beal is his usual oft injured self. Morris blows up with the coach. None of Beal, Porter or Oubre take a big jump.

We could be a 50 win team if Wall (and the rest of the roster) is healthy. One of our young players takes a big jump.

Is this team any better than the non-playoff team from last year?

Nene, Hump, Dudley > Morris, Nicholson, Mahinmi
Sessions, Temple > Burke, Eddie
Question marks are Satoransky and Oubre, but I wasn't terribly impressed with Oubre last year, but I'll admit they could add something the team lacked last year.

This team still lacks quality shooting and 3 of the 4 rotation bigs are poor rebounders for their position.

Every team in the east got better (besides ATL), and somehow Washington is supposed to get back into the playoffs, ha!
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1629 » by fishercob » Mon Jul 4, 2016 2:37 pm

My thoughts at the moment.

Horford was a worthwhile pursuit. That the Wizards were so close to nabbing him was shocking and admittedly somewhat encouraging. That said, having him chose Boston was painful. That ordeal was much more upsetting than the Durant thing, because the Wizards actually had a chance. The Wizards risked losing out on some worthwhile fallback options while they courted Horford and waited for his decision. Ultimately, they didn't miss too much and some of the supposed fallbacks (Anderson, Batum, Parsons) went for much more than I'd have wanted to spend. It would be nice to hope that this experience will help some FA chase in the future, but the Wizards won't have cap room anytime soon. But maybe it enhances their profile in some imaginary trade scenario. Whatever.

There's no player store with price tags. Lots of hand wringing about "why did we spend X for player A when we could have spent Y for player B?" I think people are underestimating how little information teams have to make these decisions and in how little time. You can't just say, "ok...hmmmm....I'll take Cole Aldrich at the price he got, plus Tyler Johnson at his price (and hope Miami doesn't match), and wait to see if anyone else comes available." Waiting is a risk; it can pay off, but you can also be left without a seat when the music stops.

Mahinmi is a good addition. Not a comment about the price or the years, but Mahinmi is a good player. If he plays the majority of his minutes against backups, he's going to do well. The Wizards have been extremely fortunate with Gortat's health. If MG goes down for a spell, Mahinmi is a credible starter. Having him in the fold presents the opportunity to get more out of Gortat over time by not riding him so many minutes. This will require some sacrifice, but a 55/45 MG/IM time share can be a source of strength. Yes, I'd prefer to have him for less money. Yes, the years make me nervous. Yes, I think I'd prefer Biyombo (but we don't know what he asked for in the way of starting opportunity).

Unsure about Nicholson Lots of rumblings in the NBA blogosphere that Nicholson, for whatever reason, never got a fair shot in Orlando. He doesn't seem to be the greatest defender, but maybe that is mitigated playing with Mahinmi. I can certainly see him being a better buy than Ryan Anderson for a third of the cost, but he needs to improve his production a good bit.

Not a fan of the Trey Burke deal I'll feel a little differently if there's some protection on that pick, but I just don't think Burke is a good player. I'd rather have waited around to see if a Brandon Jennings or someone could be had for the same money, but whatever. I do wonder if part of why Burke was targeted was for his D; the Wiz haven't had a small guard who can ball hawk in some time.

Excited by the Satoransky deal. I just wish they had locked him up for a fourth year. Even if you had to go a little higher on the annual salary, 4/$14M would have presented huge upside and little downside.

The Wizards have gotten younger. Not that they had much room to go in the other direction, but Nene, Dudley, Sessions, Temple have all been replaced by guys 3-4 years younger. Hopefully that helps depth and production in terms of avoiding injury.

If things break right, the Wizards may have the makings of a trade package down the line. No way of knowing who ot when the opportunity might be. But maybe in two years. Oubre, Satoransky, Mahinmi and Nicholson are the needed package to net a disgruntled star off another team. The Wizards have some assets that should appreciate in value and others that are unlikely to completely tank.

Ultimately, the Wizards fate rests mainly on the improvement of their starters. Based on what we have see in recent years, this Wizards roster is most likely to be decent, but not particularly good (nor bad) -- maybe in the 6-10 range in the East, depending. BUT, if Wall, Beal, and Porter can collectively take a large step forward, the Wizards might actually be surprisingly good. I am most assuredly not holding my breath. Such is the life of the Wizards fan.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1630 » by payitforward » Mon Jul 4, 2016 3:02 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:Already updated. This shows 98M, but you can remove Gooden (3.5), remove Eddie and add min hold (Net 0.4M), then reduce Beal from 22.1M down to cap hold of 14.8M (7.5M).

That puts us at about 87-88M (So 6M in cap room)

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/washington-wizards/yearly/cap/

Beal gets reduced because he hasn't actually signed his new deal yet? Or...?

We have his bird rights so we don't need to sign him until we use all of our cap room, that way his cap hold counts for the cap and not the new contract amount. So we use his 14.5 cap hold until we finish signing people or until we get close to the cap. then in theory is we need to we can use the room before we sign beal and go over the cap, then once we sign beal his new contract counts as a cap figure, which will be about 8 mill more than it does now. Then we should still have the mid level to use before we hit the tax.

Thanks for the explanation. So we have 1) $6m cap room, 2) room exception (@ $3m - ?), and 3) mid-level exception (how much $$ ?), and the only upper limit we need to worry about is the tax level. That means we are still able to sign 3 players.

Can we use the room exception before we use the $6m in actual cap space? Or, if not, can we combine cap space and the room exception in a single contract?

I ask because I'd really love to sew up Seth Curry, and $3m seems the right amount for him.

Are we also able to sign a vet minimum player w/o concern for the cap, or does that have to fit in real cap space? Thinking of Hickson; he's pretty good, and he would be especially useful to us because he can play the 4.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1631 » by da pmp » Mon Jul 4, 2016 3:23 pm

PerkinsFor3 wrote:
da pmp wrote: You are clearly better than Boston and Toronto


ok.


You wanna bet Boston and Toronto will regress? I'd take Beal and Wall over any 2 on those teams. No one thought Boston will win 48 games this season with a mediocre lineup.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1632 » by pcbothwel » Mon Jul 4, 2016 3:28 pm

payitforward wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Beal gets reduced because he hasn't actually signed his new deal yet? Or...?

We have his bird rights so we don't need to sign him until we use all of our cap room, that way his cap hold counts for the cap and not the new contract amount. So we use his 14.5 cap hold until we finish signing people or until we get close to the cap. then in theory is we need to we can use the room before we sign beal and go over the cap, then once we sign beal his new contract counts as a cap figure, which will be about 8 mill more than it does now. Then we should still have the mid level to use before we hit the tax.

Thanks for the explanation. So we have 1) $6m cap room, 2) room exception (@ $3m - ?), and 3) mid-level exception (how much $$ ?), and the only upper limit we need to worry about is the tax level. That means we are still able to sign 3 players.

Can we use the room exception before we use the $6m in actual cap space? Or, if not, can we combine cap space and the room exception in a single contract?

I ask because I'd really love to sew up Seth Curry, and $3m seems the right amount for him.

Are we also able to sign a vet minimum player w/o concern for the cap, or does that have to fit in real cap space? Thinking of Hickson; he's pretty good, and he would be especially useful to us because he can play the 4.


PIF, We only have the 6M and the Room exception (And Vet min). We have no Mid-level exception as you lose that and the Bi-Annual if you are below the cap.

And no, we cannot combine the 2. I'd love to bring back Alan Anderson for the vet min after we use the cap space and room exception. Curry(Room) and Dedmon(Cap space) are two players I'd like to get.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1633 » by payitforward » Mon Jul 4, 2016 3:28 pm

DCZards wrote:Why is it "more realistic" that Beal remains the same? Isn’t it just as realistic that Beal will get better? Most 23 year olds do. There was improvement last season...fewer long two pters. and more attacking the basket. Why shouldn’t we expect that to continue? Beal just needs to stay healthy.

Beal wasn't better last year, Zards. Not to speak of. Scoring efficiency did go up just a little. But really everything was more or less the same as the previous year.

Neither of us know whether Brad will improve, stay the same or get worse. I meant only that in thinking now about the coming season, it's more realistic just to think about the guy as he's been over a now 4 year career. Obviously, if he gets better, we're a better team. Ditto if Wall gets better, Morris gets better, Porter gets better, Gortat gets better, etc.

DCZards wrote:...Downgraded at the 1? The same was said when Miller was traded for Sessions. Could be that Brooks saw a decent amount of Burke out west and thinks he can play well in his system. Burke is just 23 so improvement is certainly possible.

Sessions had a tremendous year last year, maybe the best of his career. Burke has been utterly awful, and he's played plenty of minutes.

I hope Burke will improve -- I want all these kids to succeed. But "hope" is not a form of thinking. Trey Burke will have to improve, then improve again, and then do it again a couple more times around the block to ever sniff what Sessions produced last year.

Not that I don't like "hope" btw -- I hope Sheldon McClellan is a phenom and makes the team. I hope Satoransky is rookie of the year. I hope (and double hope, triple hope) we sign Seth Curry.

In short, I "hope" we win 55 games, but I "think" we won't be better than last year (tho that can change -- we still have roster spots to fill).
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1634 » by AFM » Mon Jul 4, 2016 3:33 pm

Durant is a total bietch if he goes to GSW.

That's 10x worse than Lebron to Miami.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1635 » by mhd » Mon Jul 4, 2016 3:43 pm

WOW, KD to GSW. Its a total Lebron move. No respect for what he did. If he went to Boston, fine.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1636 » by AFM » Mon Jul 4, 2016 3:43 pm

Durant to GSW. Absolutely terrible.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1637 » by 80sballboy » Mon Jul 4, 2016 3:46 pm

AFM wrote:Durant to GSW. Absolutely terrible.


At least it's not Boston. That's what some outlets were reporting. Just means another Cleveland/Golden State Finals.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1638 » by 80sballboy » Mon Jul 4, 2016 3:47 pm

Whoah, one year deal with player option.. Ok. Makes sense. F-KD. Must have known this from the start.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1639 » by AFM » Mon Jul 4, 2016 3:49 pm

80sballboy wrote:
AFM wrote:Durant to GSW. Absolutely terrible.


At least it's not Boston. That's what some outlets were reporting. Just means another Cleveland/Golden State Finals.


Joining Boston would have been much better.
Joining a 73 win team after you choked away a 3-1 series lead is pathetic.

I really feel for OKC fans now.

Absolutely disgusting.
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Re: 2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC 

Post#1640 » by Dark Faze » Mon Jul 4, 2016 3:50 pm

would have felt terrible as a wiz fan if he'd have chosen boston so I'm happy with the result

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