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Great offseason

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MagicFan101
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#101 » by MagicFan101 » Tue Jul 5, 2016 1:46 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
drsd wrote:
spinedoc wrote:His (GM Hennigan) only big move he's obviously gotten right so far.


He did trade Howard for what turned out to be Orlando's two best scorers: Fournier and Vučević. That is for me a move he obviously got right.


..

Post hoc ergo propter hoc


To be fair, he passed on offers for a single star like Andrew Bynum or Brook Lopez in favor of a package of promising young pieces. Even if he couldn't see X moves down the road to today, his plan was to trade Howard for teachable and even moveable pieces which is starting to work out.
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#102 » by magic22s » Tue Jul 5, 2016 2:06 pm

NBAchamps2017 wrote:Do you think Westbrook will still leave even after they knock out the Cavs (I really hope) and go to the NBA Finals to meet Durant? We have already put ourselves in a greater risk when we shipped out our only dynamic scorer in Oladipo for a "1 year rental PF". Who knows Sabonis might be a contributor right away. I say bet all the chips and let Vogel play the cards.


I take your point but it's still possible we might risk losing most of our assets for just 1 year deep playoff run.

If it happens, this will set our franchise back for 4 years. Sorry, I can not stand another 4 years losing. :nonono:
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#103 » by KingRobb02 » Tue Jul 5, 2016 2:16 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
drsd wrote:
He did trade Howard for what turned out to be Orlando's two best scorers: Fournier and Vučević. That is for me a move he obviously got right.


..

Post hoc ergo propter hoc


To be fair, he passed on offers for a single star like Andrew Bynum or Brook Lopez in favor of a package of promising young pieces. Even if he couldn't see X moves down the road to today, his plan was to trade Howard for teachable and even moveable pieces which is starting to work out.

I always though that if the best C and a bunch of guys couldn't get us out of the second round, why trade for another C? So he di well not to take the bait on Lopez/Bynum.
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#104 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue Jul 5, 2016 2:19 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:Post hoc ergo propter hoc


To be fair, he passed on offers for a single star like Andrew Bynum or Brook Lopez in favor of a package of promising young pieces. Even if he couldn't see X moves down the road to today, his plan was to trade Howard for teachable and even moveable pieces which is starting to work out.

I always though that if the best C and a bunch of guys couldn't get us out of the second round, why trade for another C? So he di well not to take the bait on Lopez/Bynum.


I saw it more as not taking a chance on two risky centers with bad injury history. It was not a genius move, more of a common sense move.
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#105 » by KingRobb02 » Tue Jul 5, 2016 2:40 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
To be fair, he passed on offers for a single star like Andrew Bynum or Brook Lopez in favor of a package of promising young pieces. Even if he couldn't see X moves down the road to today, his plan was to trade Howard for teachable and even moveable pieces which is starting to work out.

I always though that if the best C and a bunch of guys couldn't get us out of the second round, why trade for another C? So he di well not to take the bait on Lopez/Bynum.


I saw it more as not taking a chance on two risky centers with bad injury history. It was not a genius move, more of a common sense move.

There was nothing genius about the move. At the end of the day we were left holding the bag with Davis, Turkoglu, and Harrington's contracts while only getting 1 first round pick.
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#106 » by MagicFan101 » Tue Jul 5, 2016 2:50 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
To be fair, he passed on offers for a single star like Andrew Bynum or Brook Lopez in favor of a package of promising young pieces. Even if he couldn't see X moves down the road to today, his plan was to trade Howard for teachable and even moveable pieces which is starting to work out.

I always though that if the best C and a bunch of guys couldn't get us out of the second round, why trade for another C? So he di well not to take the bait on Lopez/Bynum.


I saw it more as not taking a chance on two risky centers with bad injury history. It was not a genius move, more of a common sense move.


Agreed but that sure isn't how fans or "experts" reacted to the trade at the time.
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#107 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue Jul 5, 2016 2:55 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:I always though that if the best C and a bunch of guys couldn't get us out of the second round, why trade for another C? So he di well not to take the bait on Lopez/Bynum.


I saw it more as not taking a chance on two risky centers with bad injury history. It was not a genius move, more of a common sense move.

There was nothing genius about the move. At the end of the day we were left holding the bag with Davis, Turkoglu, and Harrington's contracts while only getting 1 first round pick.


You mean 1st Round pick of Harkless cuz we may never get Lakers 1st round pick.
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#108 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue Jul 5, 2016 2:56 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:I always though that if the best C and a bunch of guys couldn't get us out of the second round, why trade for another C? So he di well not to take the bait on Lopez/Bynum.


I saw it more as not taking a chance on two risky centers with bad injury history. It was not a genius move, more of a common sense move.


Agreed but that sure isn't how fans or "experts" reacted to the trade at the time.


I don't think it was all negative. Depends on whose perspective. I thought many "Experts" thought Bynum would bust and Lopez would struggle to get healthy.
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#109 » by MagicJeff » Tue Jul 5, 2016 3:02 pm

magic22s wrote:
NBAchamps2017 wrote:Do you think Westbrook will still leave even after they knock out the Cavs (I really hope) and go to the NBA Finals to meet Durant? We have already put ourselves in a greater risk when we shipped out our only dynamic scorer in Oladipo for a "1 year rental PF". Who knows Sabonis might be a contributor right away. I say bet all the chips and let Vogel play the cards.


I take your point but it's still possible we might risk losing most of our assets for just 1 year deep playoff run.

If it happens, this will set our franchise back for 4 years. Sorry, I can not stand another 4 years losing. :nonono:

Maybe but with the cap going up next off season, Magic can still sign a couple max guys if Westbrook leaves.
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#110 » by MagicFan101 » Tue Jul 5, 2016 3:05 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
I saw it more as not taking a chance on two risky centers with bad injury history. It was not a genius move, more of a common sense move.


Agreed but that sure isn't how fans or "experts" reacted to the trade at the time.


I don't think it was all negative. Depends on whose perspective. I thought many "Experts" thought Bynum would bust and Lopez would struggle to get healthy.


It was dominantly bad press for Orlando. I and many fans here wanted nothing to do with Bynum or Lopez but we didn't represent the majority.
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#111 » by KingRobb02 » Tue Jul 5, 2016 3:05 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
I saw it more as not taking a chance on two risky centers with bad injury history. It was not a genius move, more of a common sense move.

There was nothing genius about the move. At the end of the day we were left holding the bag with Davis, Turkoglu, and Harrington's contracts while only getting 1 first round pick.


You mean 1st Round pick of Harkless cuz we may never get Lakers 1st round pick.

I meant the Payton pick
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#112 » by Destin » Tue Jul 5, 2016 3:05 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
cvMagic wrote:Wow.
Just wow.

Like everyone here, I am a HUGE Magic fan and I REALLY want them to be great again. I want every move they have made to work out tremendously. But, seriously guys, this a joke.The only thing this offseason has proved is two-fold...

1. Either Hennigan is not the right man for the job or...
2. Martins and ownership are forcing knee-jerk impatient moves, which if true, leads us back to #1

The Tobias Harris trade is atrocious. Atrocious. It quickly becomes one of the worst deals in Magic history. They gave him away for nothing. After yesterday's free agency frenzy, Harris' contract would have looked like one of the best contracts in the NBA for a young talent. His value today for any future trades would have skyrocketed.

The number one rule in building a team is to accumulate assets - and then - and this part SHOULD be simple - not give them away for nothing. Oops.Who would have traded Tobias last year for DJ Augustin and Jeff Green? Raise you hands... hello? Anyone out there?

I love Ibaka as a player. I do. But here's the thing... name one situation where trading away arguably your best young player and your lottery selection #1 draft pick for a guy on a one year contract who next offseason could literally sign a max contract with approximately twenty different teams because of the rising cap is a SMART move? How? Now, the Magic have to hope for two historically unlikely scenarios...

1. That a player's two year decline is a fluke and he rises up to his previously dominant self. (Yeah, happens all the time in sports)
2. That Ibaka won't be lured away by one of numerous other teams next offseason who can offer him max money and a definite better chance at a chip.

Let's recap... the Magic traded away Tobias, Oladipo, and a lottery pick for one year of Ibaka and the cap room to sign Jeff Green and DJ Augustin.That's it right there. That's the truth.

How is that a terrific offseason by Hennigan? The goal is to win a championship. The Magic have made themselves a #7 seed and created logjams (AGAIN, but this time with worse / older / less promising players) that could further stunt the growth of Herzonja and Gordon.

Tell me when a championship is coming now? The Magic got impatient. They got bad returns ons ome of their best assets. Why? And here's the truth...

Hennigan's goal is no longer to win a championship.
It's to save his ass and make the playoffs at any cost so he can keep his job.
Regardless of what that does to the Magic's future potential.


What if I told you we weren't winning a championship this year even if he made what people consider the "right" moves.

Tobias deal was bad - yes it was pandering to Skiles. What were the other offers? Tobias is still our starting SF if he isn't traded. Now all I see is AG in people's starting line ups and you say he and Mario will be stunted. Interesting.

Next Oladipo for Ibaka - we need Ibaka we don't need Oladipo. Yes it's a risk but we pay Oladipo a comparative salary next year anyway albeit as a RFA. Either way we are maxing a player might as well be one we need now.

Ibaka was also in a situation where he was buried in the rotation with Kanter and Adams for the sake of playoff depth. He is going to get the lion share of minutes now and be a go to guy. We will see what happens. I tend to think his production sank because of his minutes fluctuation.


The Magic front office doesn't give a flying **** about their fanbase. They only care about lining their pockets
"All I picture Rob Hennigan doing is sitting in his phat office drinking starbucks and pinching himself wondering how he landed a GM job in the NBA" - Destin
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#113 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue Jul 5, 2016 3:59 pm

KingRobb02 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:There was nothing genius about the move. At the end of the day we were left holding the bag with Davis, Turkoglu, and Harrington's contracts while only getting 1 first round pick.


You mean 1st Round pick of Harkless cuz we may never get Lakers 1st round pick.

I meant the Payton pick


So, traded Dwight for the 12th pick in draft?
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#114 » by p0peye » Tue Jul 5, 2016 4:23 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
You mean 1st Round pick of Harkless cuz we may never get Lakers 1st round pick.

I meant the Payton pick


So, traded Dwight for the 12th pick in draft?


Fair deal, in hindsight.

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Re: Great offseason 

Post#115 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue Jul 5, 2016 4:26 pm

p0peye wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
KingRobb02 wrote:I meant the Payton pick


So, traded Dwight for the 12th pick in draft?


Fair deal, in hindsight.

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Compared to what the Lakers and Houston got for him!
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Re: Great offseason 

Post#116 » by Optimus_Steel » Tue Jul 5, 2016 4:57 pm

Whats the point of talking about Dwight again?



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Re: Great offseason 

Post#117 » by PennytoShaq » Tue Jul 5, 2016 5:20 pm

cvMagic wrote:Let's recap... the Magic traded away Tobias, Oladipo, and a lottery pick for one year of Ibaka and the cap room to sign Jeff Green and DJ Augustin.That's it right there. That's the truth.



Except it's not really the truth at all. Unless you think short term and somehow believe the Magic A) would win a title this year and B) got amazing offers for Oladipo and Harris that they turned down.

Reality - both of those things were false. Harris is not that desired around the league. He is a tweener who looks like a guy sliding to DET's bench once they find a PF. He struggles to knock down open corner 3's and can't defend SF's well enough to play the wing full time.

Ibaka is a better player then Oladipo. If he is actuall on a decline (he's probably not), the Magic are not hampered with a long term deal. If he plays as expected, the Magic can max him and use his Bird rights to go over the cap and sign someone else.

Oh wait, that someone else - who is it? We don't know yet, but we know one thing - that exact Harris deal that we got off the books enables us to sign a player to another max deal next year if we want. So we retain flexibility moving forward without being locked in.

The Magic did not trade Harris and Oladipo for Jeff Green and Ibaka. That's shortsighted and simply wrong. The Magic traded two guys who did not fit the team long term, did not want to accept that they were bench players even on a bad team like Orlando , and were going to completely eat up our cap for the forseeable future. They traded those guys to have Cap flexibility moving forward. Jeff Green is not the end game here. And I would hope that most people with common sense would see that and not over react dramatically. But apparently on basketball forums, this is simply not possible.

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