2016 Offseason Thread -- Not (just) #KD2DC

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Zaza for 2.9? Hibbert for 5? Man, rushing to overpay Mahinmi to be a backup is looking worse and worse IMO.

To be fair, there's no way we could have attracted Zaza for that price. But that Hibbert deal is interesting.

As I said before, once we struck out on Horford, we should have been thinking about signing 2-year deals with the intent of reloading in the future after all this salary cap craziness settles. Instead, we are buying at the top of the market and destroying any salary cap flexibility for the next 4 years. It's criminally stupid.

Yeah I've always like Hibbert, that's a good deal. Supposedly he picked Charlotte because he'll get to work with Patrick Ewing.

Now to add Hibbert, Charlotte is looking to move Spencer Hawes, they need to find a taker and are expecting to "get little in return".

[gambitx777]

Even in this market hawes is getting paid to much ! Good luck getting anything more than a late protected second for him.
OKC better trade westbrook cuz he gone too after this year. trade him to boston. they would love that.

[closg00]

Zaza for 2.9? Hibbert for 5? Man, rushing to overpay Mahinmi to be a backup is looking worse and worse IMO.

This was the panic signing and "big name get", Ernie had to have at-least one since he struck-out on all the others.

[stevemcqueen1]

Even in this market hawes is getting paid to much ! Good luck getting anything more than a late protected second for him.
OKC better trade westbrook cuz he gone too after this year. trade him to boston. they would love that.

No one is going to want to give up much for him without assurances he'll sign an extension next summer. I can't see Westbrook doing that. He is going to want to control his own destiny.

[verbal8]

One of the best moves this offseason was bring Sato over in his prime. Why didn't the Wizards buy a 2nd round pick and use it on a draft and stash>

[stevemcqueen1]

Zaza for 2.9? Hibbert for 5? Man, rushing to overpay Mahinmi to be a backup is looking worse and worse IMO.

Mahinmi's deal was spending money just to spend. You're right that we could have made do with a much cheaper back up C like Hibbert or Pachulia or Aldrich. That's the route I would have gone.

But I think people are sleeping on Mahinmi because they're pissed at what we spent to procure a starting caliber player to be a back up. He's a lot better than Hibbert or Aldrich or Pachulia at this point, who are no more than 15 MPG back ups. I think he's going to win our respect with his defense. No joke, this guy is one of the best defensive players in the league.

Now that we're stuck with him, I want to see the situation play out. If a platoon of Gortat and Mahinmi works (I'd be surprised, I think they both need more minutes than we'll be able to give them), then we will basically forget about the C position for the next three seasons. If, as I suspect, we can't get them enough minutes to properly utilize them, then I'd like to see us explore Gortat trades. I really like Gortat, but if you can leverage him into an upgrade at PF or a stud SF that let's us play small ball at a high level, then the team gets better net-net.

[AFM]

Man, tsherkin banned me from the entire site for saying "Durant is a bietch".

He really is a terrible moderator. Nate can you ban him or something?

[PerkinsFor3]

Man, tsherkin banned me from the entire site for saying "Durant is a bietch".

He really is a terrible moderator. Nate can you ban him or something?

How much would you be willing to pay for that?

[AFM]

Man, tsherkin banned me from the entire site for saying "Durant is a bietch".

He really is a terrible moderator. Nate can you ban him or something?

How much would you be willing to pay for that?

Depends. Do you take PayPal?

[Rafael122]

Zaza for 2.9? Hibbert for 5? Man, rushing to overpay Mahinmi to be a backup is looking worse and worse IMO.

Mahinmi's deal was spending money just to spend. You're right that we could have made do with a much cheaper back up C like Hibbert or Pachulia or Aldrich. That's the route I would have gone.

But I think people are sleeping on Mahinmi because they're pissed at what we spent to procure a starting caliber player to be a back up. He's a lot better than Hibbert or Aldrich or Pachulia at this point, who are no more than 15 MPG back ups. I think he's going to win our respect with his defense. No joke, this guy is one of the best defensive players in the league.

Now that we're stuck with him, I want to see the situation play out. If a platoon of Gortat and Mahinmi works (I'd be surprised, I think they both need more minutes than we'll be able to give them), then we will basically forget about the C position for the next three seasons. If, as I suspect, we can't get them enough minutes to properly utilize them, then I'd like to see us explore Gortat trades. I really like Gortat, but if you can leverage him into an upgrade at PF or a stud SF that let's us play small ball at a high level, then the team gets better net-net.

I think people are pissed b/c we went from runner up for Horford to getting Mahinmi. Its like going from filet to chuck steak. The rest of the offseason moves are OK, the Satoransky deal is a steal. As much as I wanted Horford, I was never a fan of going all in on a max guy and then having a couple of million to fill out the rest of the team. I think this team is more balanced, the bench is a lot better IMO. Could we have gotten Aldrich? Sure, $7 million is peanuts in this market, but he had Point God with him. He stunk on the Knicks. Zaza wants a ring, he wasn't getting that here.

My concern at this point is next offseason. As of now we have like $6 million to play with, possibly less if we bring in another guy on a long term deal or AA for the room exception. Kinda sucks b/c the cap is going up another $15 million and we won't have any room. This is essentially our team for the next couple of years.

[BigA]

We need to keep things in perspective and look at all that's been accomplished this off season.

Now the Wizards have an owner, GM, coach, and SG who are all vastly over paid and have never won anything. I don't think any other franchise can come close to that.

[payitforward]

Zaza for 2.9? Hibbert for 5? Man, rushing to overpay Mahinmi to be a backup is looking worse and worse IMO.

Mahinmi's deal was spending money just to spend. You're right that we could have made do with a much cheaper back up C like Hibbert or Pachulia or Aldrich. That's the route I would have gone.

But I think people are sleeping on Mahinmi because they're pissed at what we spent to procure a starting caliber player to be a back up. He's a lot better than Hibbert or Aldrich or Pachulia at this point, who are no more than 15 MPG back ups. I think he's going to win our respect with his defense. No joke, this guy is one of the best defensive players in the league.

Now that we're stuck with him, I want to see the situation play out. If a platoon of Gortat and Mahinmi works (I'd be surprised, I think they both need more minutes than we'll be able to give them), then we will basically forget about the C position for the next three seasons. If, as I suspect, we can't get them enough minutes to properly utilize them, then I'd like to see us explore Gortat trades. I really like Gortat, but if you can leverage him into an upgrade at PF or a stud SF that let's us play small ball at a high level, then the team gets better net-net.

Gortat is better than Mahinmi and cheaper too. Why would you sign the latter to trade the former for an upgrade at another position? Use the $64m you spent on the guy for that upgrade.

Had Ernie signed Pachulia for a one and done contract, we'd be complaining that it was another one of his bandaid deals or, to change the metaphor, yet another attempt to reinforce a rotting beam using wood filler. Hibbert ditto.

But I think you're sleeping on Aldrich. He has put up very very good numbers a few years in a row. He'd be as good a backup as Mahinmi -- probably better. And if he handles 1500 minutes as well as he handled 800 last year and 975 the year before, then you can project him as a starter -- and then you really can trade Gortat! A few "ifs" there but no question he was the best deal available on a FA backup Center this off season.

[keynote]

My concern at this point is next offseason. As of now we have like $6 million to play with, possibly less if we bring in another guy on a long term deal or AA for the room exception. Kinda sucks b/c the cap is going up another $15 million and we won't have any room. This is essentially our team for the next couple of years.

I dunno. We've seen this offseason that cap room is overrated. Turning ourselves into a desirable location (through player development and good drafting) is the hard part. If a desirable FA wants to sign with us, a good FO can figure out ways to dump contracts and carve out cap room. In 2014, CLE was able to dump Gee, Jack, Zeller, and Felix (along with Wiggins and Bennett) in order to make room for LeBron and Love. They made other trades right before the season (they acquired and traded away Lucas III and Bogans in the same offseason) to clear more space to pick up other role players. GSW is quickly clearing the decks for Durant.

Good contracts are, of course, easy to move, because everyone wants good talent locked into an under-market deal. But even mediocre contracts are movable if you have the right incentive (e.g., clearing the decks for a Griffin-level talent in 2017).

[stevemcqueen1]

Gortat is better than Mahinmi and cheaper too. Why would you sign the latter to trade the former for an upgrade at another position? Use the $64m you spent on the guy for that upgrade.

Had Ernie signed Pachulia for a one and done contract, we'd be complaining that it was another one of his bandaid deals or, to change the metaphor, yet another attempt to reinforce a rotting beam using wood filler. Hibbert ditto.

But I think you're sleeping on Aldrich. He has put up very very good numbers a few years in a row. He'd be as good a backup as Mahinmi -- probably better. And if he handles 1500 minutes as well as he handled 800 last year and 975 the year before, then you can project him as a starter -- and then you really can trade Gortat! A few "ifs" there but no question he was the best deal available on a FA backup Center this off season.

I don't think Mahinmi is too big a step down from Gortat. Gortat is a better shooter and PnR finisher, but Mahinmi is a good PnR player in his own right. And he's a better defender. Mahinmi is a top five low post man defender and he can also clog the lane help to the rim from the weakside. But he can also recover to shooters and stay on the floor against small three ball shooting line ups. He was the key cog to Indy's defense last season, the reason they were able to field an elite D despite switching to a small ball offense where Paul George played half his minutes at PF. So I think that if you can trade Gortat and get a great PF or small ball SF that can play up at PF and send Markieff Morris to the bench, then you've made a net gain.

I could be wrong about Aldrich, maybe he just needs the opportunity to start. But I don't think he is a comparable talent to Mahinmi and I don't think he'll be a starter in the future. I think he is a big bodied, high IQ jobber. Someone who can give you 15 really good minutes off the bench a night, but is too limited to give you more. Mahinmi has proven he can start and anchor a great defense.

[payitforward]

Blast it!! Seth Curry to the Mavs for 2 years / $6m.

[pcbothwel]

My concern at this point is next offseason. As of now we have like $6 million to play with, possibly less if we bring in another guy on a long term deal or AA for the room exception. Kinda sucks b/c the cap is going up another $15 million and we won't have any room. This is essentially our team for the next couple of years.

I dunno. We've seen this offseason that cap room is overrated. Turning ourselves into a desirable location (through player development and good drafting) is the hard part. If a desirable FA wants to sign with us, a good FO can figure out ways to dump contracts and carve out cap room. In 2014, CLE was able to dump Gee, Jack, Zeller, and Felix (along with Wiggins and Bennett) in order to make room for LeBron and Love. They made other trades right before the season (they acquired and traded away Lucas III and Bogans in the same offseason) to clear more space to pick up other role players. GSW is quickly clearing the decks for Durant.

Good contracts are, of course, easy to move, because everyone wants good talent locked into an under-market deal. But even mediocre contracts are movable if you have the right incentive (e.g., clearing the decks for a Griffin-level talent in 2017).

Exactly. We NEED to spend the 6M, otherwise we lose it when Beal officially signs.

As the cap has exploded and the Max with it, the rookie scale and Vet min has barley increased. This leaves a much wider variance in the contracts that are given out. If you lock in quality depth players for 5-7% of the cap (or less), then you have ways to consolidate into stars. Next year Gortat will be less than 12% of the cap. Hell, Markieff, Nicholson, Sato, and Oubre combined will be less than 18%.

[montestewart]

Man, tsherkin banned me from the entire site for saying "Durant is a bietch".

He really is a terrible moderator. Nate can you ban him or something?

Yikes! Lucky you didn't post the lyrics to Kevin Durant's Got Ants in His Pants

[fishercob]

FWIW, Gortat has averaged 30 MPG for the past two season, and right in that general neighborhood since he became an NBA starter.

While Mahinmi played 25 mpg last year, he averaged 17 mpg over the previous for seasons.

Play Gortat 28 and Mahinmi 20 mpg, and you should get really solid production out of the center spot over the next few seasons.

While the Mahinmi deal may not be the greatest allocation of resources (or worse, we will see), Coach Brooks is probably okay having this "problem." Let him earn his money.

[dckingsfan]

FWIW, Gortat has averaged 30 MPG for the past two season, and right in that general neighborhood since he became an NBA starter.

While Mahinmi played 25 mpg last year, he averaged 17 mpg over the previous for seasons.

Play Gortat 28 and Mahinmi 20 mpg, and you should get really solid production out of the center spot over the next few seasons.

While the Mahinmi deal may not be the greatest allocation of resources (or worse, we will see), Coach Brooks is probably okay having this "problem." Let him earn his money.

Wow, I just don't see it. I think it is a horrible signing - period end of story. Not - borderline.

Especially when you see what we could have had. Bogat for a 2nd for example.

[payitforward]

steve -- Mahinmi is good, yes. But, "not too big a step down from Gortat" -- depends on what you think "too big" is. And why would we sign any step down for more money?

Again, why not use the $16m/year to find that terrific PF? To do it your way, we have to find a team that needs a starting Center and also has a "great PF" they want to trade.

Let me put it differently: whom do you have in mind that we could/should trade Gortat for?

I could be wrong about Aldrich too! But I wasn't saying we should start him. He's been a terrific backup Center for some years, and I see no reason whatever that he wouldn't be a terrific backup C for us. At $22m for 3 years, he is an asset as well. He's also 2 years younger than Mahinmi. To me at least, he was one of the 3 perfect inexpensive signings I saw for the Wizards along with Curry (now also gone) and Acy.