What now?

[Stadium5]

If we can get Westbrook as a rental, then we do it for the right price. Have to use the leverage we have against OKC. Adding KD outright to this roster would have worked, but having to trade away a whole bunch for westbrook wouldnt accomplish too much. We need to hold onto that 2017 BKN pick as if it's our superstar

[BfB]

Making the playoffs the past two years is anything but a patient move. Again, I think Wyc has a lot to do with this. I've heard his interviews on the radio, the man is completely fan boy level delusional when it comes to his players

I totally disagree.

We had a chance to sign Durant just because we made the playoffs two years in a row.

You think Durant even considers this team if we tanked? Not a chance.

Going to the playoffs and doing what we've done put this team on the map for players around the league. Stars now take notice of Boston. Heck, we just signed our biggest FA ever in Horford. We don't sign him if we tank.

Because of our playoff runs, people realize what a genius Brad Stevens really is. You think people are saying that about Brett Brown?

We exported our tank to Brooklyn. There's no reason to tank since they're doing that for us. Therefore what we're doing is without a doubt the best course of action we could and can take.

Clearly we disagree.

We had a chance to sign Durant because we have a bunch of role players that he would have around him as "the guy" with Nets picks as extra pieces to build on whatever KD would have brought here in a weaker conference. KD seeing us get smashed in the playoffs two years in a row absolutely did not entice him to come here, that's absurd.

Horford came here because we have a brighter future than Atlanta, and the Atlanta fans blow in comparison to Boston sports fans. Explain to me how a "genius" gets swept in the playoffs, and what actually classifies him as a "genius" at all. Relentlessly giving Evan Turner, David Lee, Phil Pressey, and other dead end weight minutes over our young guys that we're banking on in the long haul?

We have the luxury of the BKN picks, but as seen with the Durant fiasco, do not put all your eggs in a basket that is out of your hand. Double up on the draft with our own picks partnered with the BKN picks and you have even better trade chips or higher valued prospects than we do now. Horford may have still signed here as long as we are trending up with prospect

What the hell are you talking about? You need to get off this board and surf around the league a bit.

The BKN situation changed the team's build strategy because they had a pipeline of talent coming in. Yes, they could have "tanked" for more, but they decided to maximize their free agent/trade appeal while also getting top draft assets - that's called diversification.

Bagging Al Horford due to his age is about a short-sighted as you can get. The team didn't put "all its eggs" in any basket - the Horford signing alone should make that clear. KD was a power play, but it wasn't their only shot at another superstar. Using KD's decision to go to the Warriors as an indictment of Ainge makes no sense - its hindsight that every GM in the league would then look "foolish" for building - aside from PHI, ironically.

Missing in that equation is how much MORE ATTRACTIVE Boston will look to next year's crop of superstar free agents. With GSW looking like a finals lock, Western Conference free agents will be looking east to see if they can form a team that at least gives them a crack at the finals to see what happens. CLE is capped out and unless they trade Kevin Love for something valuable they can't really improve themselves much more.

Boston, because of their team building approach is now front and center as the most desirable team to relocate to because they have max cap room to add another superstar, plus ancillary cap to add another support player in addition to having the best defensive roster for challenging GS's perimeter attack....all while having a ton of young prospects coming up to give the team superior depth to any of the other contenders.

The Warriors may be impossible to beat, (remains to be seen how long they stay harmonious with 4 stars and 1 ball with cash on the line) but Boston should easily be able to recruit one of the available mega stars on the market next season with their combination of win-now talent and win-later youth. They have a deeper roster and a longer window with which to contend.

When you are staring down the barrel of the Warriors death lineup, jumping over to the East Coast to join a loaded Celtics roster with tons of potential is a lot more appealing than knowing your **** on your current team.

Worst case scenario, Boston looks like a team that can peak 3-4 seasons from now when the Cavs and Warriors stars will be into their 30's with only aging vet coat-tailers on their bench - Boston, if they draft well, should be rolling 12 deep with talent to support their aging stars.

It's not all or nothing. Being a blend of "today" and "tomorrow" is a good thing right now.

[BfB]

If we can get Westbrook as a rental, then we do it for the right price. Have to use the leverage we have against OKC. Adding KD outright to this roster would have worked, but having to trade away a whole bunch for westbrook wouldnt accomplish too much. We need to hold onto that 2017 BKN pick as if it's our superstar

100% agree - giving up BKN picks, Smart, Brown, etc is a fools errand. You maybe get good enough to challenge the Cavs, but there is no chance Westbrooks uber-inefficent game can beat Golden States 3 point bonanza.

This is where patience is a virtue - he's not the guy to give up all future assets for.

[BannersOnly]

This rebuild is never getting anywhere without an alpha dog STUD in the fold. Period. Point blank. Only 2 ways to get him IMO because we just learned the hard way that free agency ain't going to be the way. We need to trade for one or draft one. I prefer trading for one asap like Cousins because if we decide to draft one next summer than we'll need to wait 3-4 years before he's ready to "carry us" on his back plus by that time all these good contracts(IT, Bradley, Crowder) will be up and Horford will be a useless fossil. That's why Danny overplayed his hand by refusing to double dip and TANK hard for a couple years and stockpile some nice young talent to pair up with our Nets picks or use in trades. No GM in this league is flipping us a STUD for nice but nothing special vets like IT, Bradley, Crowder, Johnson, KO, Horford or anyone else on our roster. They will want high draft picks to pick their own guys or they will want top shelf young talent that have a high "ceilling" like Brown. Problem is, if we trade Brown we go back to having no young talent that will ever be worth a sh*t and we'll still be a STUD or two away even if we add Cousins.

Pretty much, we have our hands tied. This is why we should have TANKED hard the 1st two years of this rebuild at minimum. I would have TANKED the 1st 3 years, try making the playoffs THIS year now that the Brooklyn picks have started and we'll still have 2 more Brooklyn picks to add. We would have 5-6 former Top 5-7 picks on this roster in 2 more years and we would have at least a STUD or two plus endless amount of trade possibilities with young talent that other GM's actually value. Instead, we're loaded with ham and eggers and nice veterans that hold minimal trade value(IT, Horford) and we're still nowhere close to being a true contender.

[Slartibartfast]

If we can get Westbrook as a rental, then we do it for the right price. Have to use the leverage we have against OKC. Adding KD outright to this roster would have worked, but having to trade away a whole bunch for westbrook wouldnt accomplish too much. We need to hold onto that 2017 BKN pick as if it's our superstar

100% agree - giving up BKN picks, Smart, Brown, etc is a fools errand. You maybe get good enough to challenge the Cavs, but there is no chance Westbrooks uber-inefficent game can beat Golden States 3 point bonanza.

This is where patience is a virtue - he's not the guy to give up all future assets for.

Whose game is good enough to beat Golden St. in the near-term?

Is it really realistic to expect the trade market to yield the 2 MVP talents we need to catch up in the arms race?

The trade market is absolutely brutal on the buyer right now - a collapsing Chicago team wouldn't budge from a 2 BK pick demand for Butler. An expiring Gordon Hayward couldn't be had for #3 or Bledsoe + a lotto pick.

Westbrook is the best player potentially available in trade. Golden St obviously isn't moving any of their 3 top 10 players. LBJ ain't going anywhere. The Pelicans aren't going to move AD anytime soon, nor Indy Paul George.

Cousins and Butler are likely to be available for a king's ransom, but neither of these guys are as good as Westbrook (and I say this as a longtime Russ skeptic). Getting both would be interesting but I don't think we have the assets to do it.

Patience isn't going to produce a guy better than Westbrook. And Westbrook ain't coming for less than everything (IT + BK picks). And as you point out even Westbrook probably won't be enough on his own (though he might be useful in recruiting Griffin next year, in case you want to double down on freak athletes with past injury issues closing in on 30).

I think the choice is pretty stark - get in on the arms race, outpace the Cavs and hope that Golden St. drops down to a beatable tier due to injury/drama OR capitalize on the arms race and start selling some of our prime armaments while turning to the draft and our under rookie scale guys.

[OFWGKTA]

Cousins is the guy to get.

[BannersOnly]

Cousins is the guy to get.

Yes. He's almost as good as Durant IMO in terms of he's a true STUD you can build around and he's still in his prime. I know we'll have to unload the farm for him(ie Nets 2017, Nets 2018 plus either Crowder, Smart or Brown at minimum) but he's gotta be the #1 target. He will pair real nicely with Horford giving us a real nice front line.

[Slartibartfast]

This rebuild is never getting anywhere without an alpha dog STUD in the fold. Period. Point blank. Only 2 ways to get him IMO because we just learned the hard way that free agency ain't going to be the way. We need to trade for one or draft one. I prefer trading for one asap like Cousins because if we decide to draft one next summer than we'll need to wait 3-4 years before he's ready to "carry us" on his back plus by that time all these good contracts(IT, Bradley, Crowder) will be up and Horford will be a useless fossil.

We can trade these guys at peak value (i.e. now or by the deadline) though. We don't need to keep them if we're shifting our core valuation to Brown and the BK picks.

Probably not going to happen given how enamored the front office is with being a serious playoff team again, but something as monumental as KD to the Warriors should produce a shift in strategy. The bar just got raised, and it might be unreachable in the short-term. We should adjust accordingly.

[Slartibartfast]

Cousins is the guy to get.

Yes. He's almost as good as Durant IMO in terms of he's a true STUD you can build around and he's still in his prime. I know we'll have to unload the farm for him(ie Nets 2017, Nets 2018 plus either Crowder, Smart or Brown at minimum) but he's gotta be the #1 target. He will pair real nicely with Horford giving us a real nice front line.

But how do you take the next step then? Empty the pantry for Cousins and we're still not on Golden State's level and we still face the problem of IT/AB getting to the end of their bargain deals and Horford exiting his prime.

To me the 2 year window that we have with cheap talent + prime Horford has been shut by KD's Saruman move.

Unless we can get great deals like we did in 2007 (can you imagine getting prime KG for what we paid now? Or even Ray?) or Houston did with Harden, I'm not seeing a convincing path to a 2017 or 2018 championship.

[OFWGKTA]

Cousins is the guy to get.

Yes. He's almost as good as Durant IMO in terms of he's a true STUD you can build around and he's still in his prime. I know we'll have to unload the farm for him(ie Nets 2017, Nets 2018 plus either Crowder, Smart or Brown at minimum) but he's gotta be the #1 target. He will pair real nicely with Horford giving us a real nice front line.

But how do you take the next step then? Empty the pantry for Cousins and we're still not on Golden State's level and we still face the problem of IT/AB getting to the end of their bargain deals and Horford exiting his prime.

To me the 2 year window that we have with cheap talent + prime Horford has been shut by KD's Saruman move.

Unless we can get great deals like we did in 2007 (can you imagine getting prime KG for what we paid now? Or even Ray?) or Houston did with Harden, I'm not seeing a convincing path to a 2017 or 2018 championship.

I'm in the opinion that if the following lineup gels well, and Cousins totally buys into Brad, is a true contender:

IT/Smart
Bradley/Smart
Crowder/Brown (in my give them all the picks, but keep the players dream scenario)
Horford/Crowder
Cousins/Olynyk/Horford

We keep all our great perimeter defenders that have given GSW so much trouble. Cousins/Horford will eat Pachulia/Green alive as far as front court matchups go. There's more than enough scoring, tons of space for IT to work since everyone in that rotation can hits 3s except Brown and Smart (who I think will be vastly improved from 3 this year). I think matching up with the Cavs would be tougher tbh. Our team last year with a trash front court probably matched up with GSW better than any other team in the league, a double OT loss at home, and a win on the road to end their undefeated streak. Cousins with proper coaching and direction is a scary, scary player man. Ideally, I would upgrade Bradley to Middleton to solidify the roster though.

[BannersOnly]

Cousins is the guy to get.

Yes. He's almost as good as Durant IMO in terms of he's a true STUD you can build around and he's still in his prime. I know we'll have to unload the farm for him(ie Nets 2017, Nets 2018 plus either Crowder, Smart or Brown at minimum) but he's gotta be the #1 target. He will pair real nicely with Horford giving us a real nice front line.

But how do you take the next step then? Empty the pantry for Cousins and we're still not on Golden State's level and we still face the problem of IT/AB getting to the end of their bargain deals and Horford exiting his prime.

To me the 2 year window that we have with cheap talent + prime Horford has been shut by KD's Saruman move.

Unless we can get great deals like we did in 2007 (can you imagine getting prime KG for what we paid now? Or even Ray?) or Houston did with Harden, I'm not seeing a convincing path to a 2017 or 2018 championship.

True. However, if Danny dials it back now he'll basically be admitting his plan was wrong and we'll need to trade all these vets and go with a youth movement and get STUDS primarily thru the draft. If he does that, he'll concede that he wasted the 1st 3-4 years of this rebuild foolishly thinking he could either sign a true STUD in free agency or trade for one without giving up too much so that he could still build a contending roster around whomever we acquire. He won't do that.........he's too stubborn and Wyc is too busy sniffing his jock to fire him or realize it.

[BannersOnly]

Yes. He's almost as good as Durant IMO in terms of he's a true STUD you can build around and he's still in his prime. I know we'll have to unload the farm for him(ie Nets 2017, Nets 2018 plus either Crowder, Smart or Brown at minimum) but he's gotta be the #1 target. He will pair real nicely with Horford giving us a real nice front line.

But how do you take the next step then? Empty the pantry for Cousins and we're still not on Golden State's level and we still face the problem of IT/AB getting to the end of their bargain deals and Horford exiting his prime.

To me the 2 year window that we have with cheap talent + prime Horford has been shut by KD's Saruman move.

Unless we can get great deals like we did in 2007 (can you imagine getting prime KG for what we paid now? Or even Ray?) or Houston did with Harden, I'm not seeing a convincing path to a 2017 or 2018 championship.

I'm in the opinion that if the following lineup gels well, and Cousins totally buys into Brad, is a true contender:

IT/Smart
Bradley/Smart
Crowder/Brown (in my give them all the picks, but keep the players dream scenario)
Horford/Crowder
Cousins/Olynyk/Horford

We keep all our great perimeter defenders that have given GSW so much trouble. Cousins/Horford will eat Pachulia/Green alive as far as front court matchups go. There's more than enough scoring, tons of space for IT to work since everyone in that rotation can hits 3s except Brown and Smart (who I think will be vastly improved from 3 this year). I think matching up with the Cavs would be tougher tbh. Our team last year with a trash front court probably matched up with GSW better than any other team in the league, a double OT loss at home, and a win on the road to end their undefeated streak. Cousins with proper coaching and direction is a scary, scary player man.

I like that roster. That's easily a Top 5 NBA roster and certainly a true contender in the East. Plus, if we can somehow keep Brown out of the Cousins trade and he reaches his "ceiling" in 3 years than we have a real good team for the final 2 years of Horford's contract. Let's face it, NOBODY and I mean NOBODY is building a roster as good or better than Golden State the next 3-4 years. However, if you get a roster that can at least compete legitemately than you never know. We either need to go ALL IN for Cousins or we need to blow it up after this season if the Nets pick doesn't land us an absolute, no questions asked young STUD a la Lebron, Durant, Towns, Davis, etc....

[Stadium5]

Yes. He's almost as good as Durant IMO in terms of he's a true STUD you can build around and he's still in his prime. I know we'll have to unload the farm for him(ie Nets 2017, Nets 2018 plus either Crowder, Smart or Brown at minimum) but he's gotta be the #1 target. He will pair real nicely with Horford giving us a real nice front line.

But how do you take the next step then? Empty the pantry for Cousins and we're still not on Golden State's level and we still face the problem of IT/AB getting to the end of their bargain deals and Horford exiting his prime.

To me the 2 year window that we have with cheap talent + prime Horford has been shut by KD's Saruman move.

Unless we can get great deals like we did in 2007 (can you imagine getting prime KG for what we paid now? Or even Ray?) or Houston did with Harden, I'm not seeing a convincing path to a 2017 or 2018 championship.

True. However, if Danny dials it back now he'll basically be admitting his plan was wrong and we'll need to trade all these vets and go with a youth movement and get STUDS primarily thru the draft. If he does that, he'll concede that he wasted the 1st 3-4 years of this rebuild foolishly thinking he could either sign a true STUD in free agency or trade for one without giving up too much so that he could still build a contending roster around whomever we acquire. He won't do that.........he's too stubborn and Wyc is too busy sniffing his jock to fire him or realize it.

Nailed it. Wyc is a fan boy and will let Ainge do whatever he pleases. But you're right Banners, given Ainge's "im the smartest guy in the room" approach, there's no way he swallows his ego and admits he messed up trying to shortvut the process. He's full steam ahead and going all in. I'll actually be surprised if we end up owning those BKN picks come draft day

[BannersOnly]

But how do you take the next step then? Empty the pantry for Cousins and we're still not on Golden State's level and we still face the problem of IT/AB getting to the end of their bargain deals and Horford exiting his prime.

To me the 2 year window that we have with cheap talent + prime Horford has been shut by KD's Saruman move.

Unless we can get great deals like we did in 2007 (can you imagine getting prime KG for what we paid now? Or even Ray?) or Houston did with Harden, I'm not seeing a convincing path to a 2017 or 2018 championship.

True. However, if Danny dials it back now he'll basically be admitting his plan was wrong and we'll need to trade all these vets and go with a youth movement and get STUDS primarily thru the draft. If he does that, he'll concede that he wasted the 1st 3-4 years of this rebuild foolishly thinking he could either sign a true STUD in free agency or trade for one without giving up too much so that he could still build a contending roster around whomever we acquire. He won't do that.........he's too stubborn and Wyc is too busy sniffing his jock to fire him or realize it.

Nailed it. Wyc is a fan boy and will let Ainge do whatever he pleases. But you're right Banners, given Ainge's "im the smartest guy in the room" approach, there's no way he swallows his ego and admits he messed up trying to shortvut the process. He's full steam ahead and going all in. I'll actually be surprised if we end up owning those BKN picks come draft day

Exactly. I'm only willing to trade them for certified STUDS that are still in their young to middle prime like Cousins or Davis. No way in hell do I trade the Nets 2017 and 2018 picks for guys like Griffin or Westbrook who I like but don't love. Neither guy looks like he can be the true alpha dog needed to win a chip. So basically, there's only like two guys in the league that *potentially* will even be available on the trade market that are worth those Nets 2017 and 2018 picks IMO. And don't even get me started on trading those Nets picks for the Jimmy fn Butler's and Khris fn Middleton's of the world.

[TheRev72]

What next?

Get Kevin Love + Russel Westbrook?

[Slartibartfast]

Yes. He's almost as good as Durant IMO in terms of he's a true STUD you can build around and he's still in his prime. I know we'll have to unload the farm for him(ie Nets 2017, Nets 2018 plus either Crowder, Smart or Brown at minimum) but he's gotta be the #1 target. He will pair real nicely with Horford giving us a real nice front line.

But how do you take the next step then? Empty the pantry for Cousins and we're still not on Golden State's level and we still face the problem of IT/AB getting to the end of their bargain deals and Horford exiting his prime.

To me the 2 year window that we have with cheap talent + prime Horford has been shut by KD's Saruman move.

Unless we can get great deals like we did in 2007 (can you imagine getting prime KG for what we paid now? Or even Ray?) or Houston did with Harden, I'm not seeing a convincing path to a 2017 or 2018 championship.

True. However, if Danny dials it back now he'll basically be admitting his plan was wrong and we'll need to trade all these vets and go with a youth movement and get STUDS primarily thru the draft. If he does that, he'll concede that he wasted the 1st 3-4 years of this rebuild foolishly thinking he could either sign a true STUD in free agency or trade for one without giving up too much so that he could still build a contending roster around whomever we acquire. He won't do that.........he's too stubborn and Wyc is too busy sniffing his jock to fire him or realize it.

I think Danny could rationalize a shift to a youth movement without doing a perp walk.

He could say he made a good run at it, put the team in good position to land KD and become a true contender and it was worth it to take the shot. Plus with the value he could get for IT and Horford, maybe he gets back whatever he forsook by not tanking earlier.

Think about it - there will be some hungry teams out there, angry that the Warriors are so loaded and itching to load up themselves.

Some of the guys that we missed out on with our tank failure in 14/15 - Myles Turner, Winslow, Porzingis - belong to teams that might fit that profile.

Take Indy for example - Bird is hyper competitive and wants to win now. He's got a top 10 player in George, a new and improved vet supporting cast and a 20-year-old center that has a great long-term outlook but isn't ready to be the lynchpin of a contender. Al Horford would provide them with the All-Star grade floor-spacing and team D they need right now.

[Stadium5]

But how do you take the next step then? Empty the pantry for Cousins and we're still not on Golden State's level and we still face the problem of IT/AB getting to the end of their bargain deals and Horford exiting his prime.

To me the 2 year window that we have with cheap talent + prime Horford has been shut by KD's Saruman move.

Unless we can get great deals like we did in 2007 (can you imagine getting prime KG for what we paid now? Or even Ray?) or Houston did with Harden, I'm not seeing a convincing path to a 2017 or 2018 championship.

True. However, if Danny dials it back now he'll basically be admitting his plan was wrong and we'll need to trade all these vets and go with a youth movement and get STUDS primarily thru the draft. If he does that, he'll concede that he wasted the 1st 3-4 years of this rebuild foolishly thinking he could either sign a true STUD in free agency or trade for one without giving up too much so that he could still build a contending roster around whomever we acquire. He won't do that.........he's too stubborn and Wyc is too busy sniffing his jock to fire him or realize it.

I think Danny could rationalize a shift to a youth movement without doing a perp walk.

He could say he made a good run at it, put the team in good position to land KD and become a true contender and it was worth it to take the shot. Plus with the value he could get for IT and Horford, maybe he gets back whatever he forsook by not tanking earlier.

Think about it - there will be some hungry teams out there, angry that the Warriors are so loaded and itching to load up themselves.

Some of the guys that we missed out on with our tank failure in 14/15 - Myles Turner, Winslow, Porzingis - belong to teams that might fit that profile.

Take Indy for example - Bird is hyper competitive and wants to win now. He's got a top 10 player in George, a new and improved vet supporting cast and a 20-year-old center that has a great long-term outlook but isn't ready to be the lynchpin of a contender. Al Horford would provide them with the All-Star grade floor-spacing and team D they need right now.

Yup, something like this would definitely get me off his back for not tanking the past few years. He got the Celts in the KD sweepstakes with his winning environment, non tank stance, it didn't work out...time to pick a new direction. Horford will be old by the time we can compete again, and like you said, many teams who don't have the choice of biding time for the next 3-4 years will look to add to what they have and go for it. We need to capitalize on this situation and shift to youth. If Stevens doesn't like it then he can be shown the door in a trade deal.

[vct33]

Unless we make a big trade and "win" the trade handily, I'd prefer to run this year with the current roster and a few 1-year deals. Keep our assets, hope to land a guy like Josh Jackson with the '17 BKN pick and go after guys like Hayward, Griffin & Westbrook next year as free agents.

[Tyakack]

I agree with cousins being the number one target. I was hoping we could trade for him after getting durant. We would have been lethal.... Too bad durant is a beta.

[Smog]

You tankers are relentless. We must be the only fan base in America mourning have a young 50-win team.

How you all don't see that it's far easier to find an additional piece or two to crank the team up from good to very good, as opposed to blowing it all up and selling off everyone in search of a rebuild that will take half a decade just to get to where we are now, is beyond me.

All they have to right now is play, develop their young guys, get better, make their Nets picks, and keep trying to add more pieces in free agency or in trades. Incidentally, most of us actual fans find that process fun to watch. But if it's all to depressing for you, why not root for Philly? Look at the STUDS they have on their team. God, even Ben Simmons last night looked like a giant Rondo. That's what you want to blow up the roster for?