ImageImageImageImageImage

TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss?

Moderator: JaysRule15

polo007
General Manager
Posts: 9,328
And1: 3,027
Joined: Nov 02, 2006

TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#1 » by polo007 » Mon Jul 4, 2016 6:05 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SportsCentre/status/749967292323201026[/tweet]
Before the 2016 season started, the Toronto Blue Jays wanted to ship Michael Saunders to the Los Angeles Angels as part of a three-way deal to acquire Jay Bruce from the Cincinnati Reds.

Bruce, by the way, is having a resurgent season, slugging .544 with an OPS of .858 and 17 dingers - The kind of numbers that make Jays executives weep about the trade not working out.

At least they would if the guy they failed to trade - Saunders - wasn’t having the best season of his career.

Saunders is now one of the Blue Jays’ best hitters and that’s saying something because the team isn’t light on great hitters. Saunders has been better than Jose Bautista, Edwin Encarnacion, Kevin Pillar and Troy Tulowitzki, sporting a career-best wRC+ at 140.

wRC+, or weighted runs creation, is a metric that measures runs per plate appearance, scaled, where 100 is average. It is both league and park adjusted and based on weighted on-base percentage (wOBA).

A wRC+ of 100 is average. Any wRC+ above 100 represents an above average big league hitter, and Saunders is at 140, or worth 40 runs more than the average major leaguer. Only Josh Donaldson is besting Saunders with a 151. Bautista is at 118 while Encarnacion is at 133.

What was Saunders’ highest wRC+ before this season? It was 126 in 2014 - the year the Jays felt he was a player about to break out and worth acquiring. I think it’s safe to say that Saunders has broken out.

By comparison, Jay Bruce’s wRC+ is 123. He would have made an impact in Toronto, just not the profound impact that Saunders has made.

As it stands, the best potential free agents in baseball as ranked by wRC+ are Yoenis Cespedes, Edwin Encarnacion, Jose Bautista, Michael Saunders, Mark Trumbo, Franklin Gutierrez, David Freese, Carlos Santana and Luis Valbuena. Note that there are three Blue Jays on that list, good for over half of the Jays’ current home run production. Saunders is the youngest of those three Blue Jays and is also among the youngest going on the free agent slugging market. That makes him much more desirable assuming he sustains his power production.

And this newly-found power production is something everyone will be scrutinizing. How, exactly, has Saunders become this good this fast?

Many would say his results this season is what happens when a good player finally gets healthy. Others would even argue that Saunders had a lot to prove going into a walk year, coupled with a chip on his shoulder because the Jays tried to flip him out of town. Or is it that he’s simply gotten better?

All of the above.
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 41,301
And1: 14,319
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#2 » by dagger » Mon Jul 4, 2016 11:06 pm

I'm going to say this again. If we aren't signing any of Jose, Edwin and Saunders, the Jays will only have a $90m payroll because almost everyone else's raises next season are accounted for. The Jays are headed for three million in attendance. My view is that some expectations at Rogers must be adjusting to the reality that they have more to lose than the players involved. Many of us accepted the wisdom that it wouldn't have been smart to re-sign David Price at his asking price, and many of us would accept that it's not a smart idea to re-sign all of the three hitters mentioned, but it would be counter-productive financially not to bring one or two of them back.
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
ldnk
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,905
And1: 3,522
Joined: Feb 17, 2007

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#3 » by ldnk » Mon Jul 4, 2016 11:13 pm

Yeah, I mean it's hyperbole because I wouldn't actually stop being a fan but I'm done with the franchise if they nerf payroll in the face of 3M fans.
User avatar
bluerap23
Head Coach
Posts: 7,047
And1: 7,218
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#4 » by bluerap23 » Tue Jul 5, 2016 1:34 am

They would have to be complete idiots to miss the correlation between competing and attendance. If they lose all 3 (without significant replacements) this team will not be able to compete in our division. The one downside to not getting Jay Bruce is he had an extra year on his contract. Will be interesting to see what Saunders gets in the open market. Any predictions?

I am hoping they will resign him and one of EE/JB. Don't really favour one over the other.
Image
The_Hater
GHOAT (Greatest Hater Of All Time)
Posts: 85,319
And1: 40,062
Joined: May 23, 2001
     

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#5 » by The_Hater » Tue Jul 5, 2016 2:38 am

bluerap23 wrote:They would have to be complete idiots to miss the correlation between competing and attendance. If they lose all 3 (without significant replacements) this team will not be able to compete in our division. The one downside to not getting Jay Bruce is he had an extra year on his contract. Will be interesting to see what Saunders gets in the open market. Any predictions?

I am hoping they will resign him and one of EE/JB. Don't really favour one over the other.


They will have a payroll budget in place and will obviously spend up to that number. Even if they let all 3 walk, they will spend money on other players. The key is to spend the money wisely.

Rogers is making a bundle this season. The TV numbers are massive and the attendance is up considerably. I will be shocked if there's not a huge spike in the payroll budget this off season to go with it.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


April 14th, 2019.
engageTHEmasses
Senior
Posts: 740
And1: 206
Joined: Jan 18, 2009
         

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#6 » by engageTHEmasses » Tue Jul 5, 2016 2:59 am

Feel Saunders should be the 'must' of the three, with EE a close second. I'm quite over JB.
===========
The Boy wrote:
trick wrote:Slavery was also an old-time tradition...

wtf bruh


Derrick Rose wrote:They're saying us and Golden State are the super teams.
The_Hater
GHOAT (Greatest Hater Of All Time)
Posts: 85,319
And1: 40,062
Joined: May 23, 2001
     

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#7 » by The_Hater » Tue Jul 5, 2016 3:04 am

engageTHEmasses wrote:Feel Saunders should be the 'must' of the three, with EE a close second. I'm quite over JB.


That could easily change in a month. Jose could be the hot guy and Saunders could be the guy struggling.

Of course it all depends on their salary demands too.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


April 14th, 2019.
Fairview4Life
RealGM
Posts: 69,957
And1: 33,822
Joined: Jul 25, 2005
     

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#8 » by Fairview4Life » Tue Jul 5, 2016 5:07 pm

I remember Jose hitting that massive home run against Texas, and then hitting 2 home runs in game 6 against the Royals and I will never be over him.
9. Similarly, IF THOU HAST SPENT the entire offseason predicting that thy team will stink, thou shalt not gloat, nor even be happy, shouldst thou turn out to be correct. Realistic analysis is fine, but be a fan first, a smug smarty-pants second.
North_of_Border
Pro Prospect
Posts: 910
And1: 369
Joined: May 18, 2014
   

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#9 » by North_of_Border » Tue Jul 5, 2016 6:37 pm

On the positive side, That's 3 extra first round Draft picks next year.
Black Watch
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,339
And1: 762
Joined: Apr 23, 2014
Contact:
   

Re: Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#10 » by Black Watch » Tue Jul 5, 2016 10:43 pm

North_of_Border wrote:On the positive side, That's 3 extra first round Draft picks next year.

No, the CBA is up at the end of the year.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using RealGM mobile app
Black Watch and Hamyltowne, my former usernames, are tartan patterns. Nothing to do with any race or any city.
tecumseh18
RealGM
Posts: 18,940
And1: 11,190
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Location: Big green house
 

Re: Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#11 » by tecumseh18 » Wed Jul 6, 2016 3:23 am

Black Watch wrote:
North_of_Border wrote:On the positive side, That's 3 extra first round Draft picks next year.

No, the CBA is up at the end of the year.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using RealGM mobile app


Say what? Are you telling me there's no compensation for QOing and losing these guys?
RalphWiggum
RealGM
Posts: 12,993
And1: 8,279
Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Location: PARTS UNKNOWN
   

Re: Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#12 » by RalphWiggum » Wed Jul 6, 2016 3:56 am

The_Hater wrote:
engageTHEmasses wrote:Feel Saunders should be the 'must' of the three, with EE a close second. I'm quite over JB.


That could easily change in a month. Jose could be the hot guy and Saunders could be the guy struggling.

Of course it all depends on their salary demands too.


Even if Jose gets hot he is 36 and can no longer field his position and wants a stupid contract. As an attendee of game 5 he provided me my greatest live sporting experience that I doubt will ever be topped but I'm not willing to eat up 15-20% of our payroll on a guy that is in the 99% percentile to regress.
The_Hater
GHOAT (Greatest Hater Of All Time)
Posts: 85,319
And1: 40,062
Joined: May 23, 2001
     

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#13 » by The_Hater » Wed Jul 6, 2016 12:45 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:I remember Jose hitting that massive home run against Texas, and then hitting 2 home runs in game 6 against the Royals and I will never be over him.


And he's been the best hitter in Jays history. People have short memories though.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


April 14th, 2019.
User avatar
rarefind
RealGM
Posts: 12,257
And1: 10,229
Joined: May 25, 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
     

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#14 » by rarefind » Wed Jul 6, 2016 7:12 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:I remember Jose hitting that massive home run against Texas, and then hitting 2 home runs in game 6 against the Royals and I will never be over him.


And he's been the best hitter in Jays history. People have short memories though.


2nd best. Bautista has a few of the top 10 home runs in franchise history, though.
Fairview4Life
RealGM
Posts: 69,957
And1: 33,822
Joined: Jul 25, 2005
     

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#15 » by Fairview4Life » Wed Jul 6, 2016 8:12 pm

rarefind wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:I remember Jose hitting that massive home run against Texas, and then hitting 2 home runs in game 6 against the Royals and I will never be over him.


And he's been the best hitter in Jays history. People have short memories though.


2nd best. Bautista has a few of the top 10 home runs in franchise history, though.


In my memory, 8 of them are off Darren O'Day.
9. Similarly, IF THOU HAST SPENT the entire offseason predicting that thy team will stink, thou shalt not gloat, nor even be happy, shouldst thou turn out to be correct. Realistic analysis is fine, but be a fan first, a smug smarty-pants second.
ldnk
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,905
And1: 3,522
Joined: Feb 17, 2007

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#16 » by ldnk » Wed Jul 6, 2016 8:24 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:
rarefind wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
And he's been the best hitter in Jays history. People have short memories though.


2nd best. Bautista has a few of the top 10 home runs in franchise history, though.


In my memory, 8 of them are off Darren O'Day.


Personally I put Carlos ahead of Jose but we are talking about a small gap.
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 41,301
And1: 14,319
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#17 » by dagger » Wed Jul 6, 2016 9:11 pm

As for the financial capabilities of the organization to bring back at least two of the three without compromising the downstream flexibility of the franchise:

1. The Jays are on track to get over three million paying customers at the Rogers Centre.
2. It was reported today that 23 games on Sportsnet have drawn audiences in excess of one million viewers. At this point last year, only two games had drawn over a million.
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
The_Hater
GHOAT (Greatest Hater Of All Time)
Posts: 85,319
And1: 40,062
Joined: May 23, 2001
     

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#18 » by The_Hater » Wed Jul 6, 2016 9:23 pm

dagger wrote:As for the financial capabilities of the organization to bring back at least two of the three without compromising the downstream flexibility of the franchise:

1. The Jays are on track to get over three million paying customers at the Rogers Centre.
2. It was reported today that 23 games on Sportsnet have drawn audiences in excess of one million viewers. At this point last year, only two games had drawn over a million.


I was at National Sports last night and the amount of Blue Jays garb they have for sale, compared to previous seasons, is downright shocking. I'm not sure what the team/league split is on this stream of revenue but we can add it to the Jays coffers.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


April 14th, 2019.
User avatar
C Court
RealGM
Posts: 39,502
And1: 26,411
Joined: Nov 07, 2005
Location: Toronto
       

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#19 » by C Court » Thu Jul 7, 2016 1:28 am

I think that Saunders and Edwin are back next year, with Jose walking elsewhere.

During tonight's game I voted 30+ times for Captain Canada.
NBA Champion Toronto Raptors
User avatar
super_balls
Starter
Posts: 2,001
And1: 1,837
Joined: Dec 21, 2008
   

Re: TSN.ca: Michael Saunders - the Jays' next big free agency loss? 

Post#20 » by super_balls » Thu Jul 7, 2016 2:45 pm

Centre Court wrote:I think that Saunders and Edwin are back next year, with Jose walking elsewhere.

During tonight's game I voted 30+ times for Captain Canada.


Haha did the same thing and I agree, Edwin as our DH forever and because he's younger than Jose. Saunders is Captain Canada, he will be back.

Return to Toronto Blue Jays