Horford won't sign a Contract Extension before next summer

[Jamaaliver]

In hindsight, if the Hawks traded Horford last year or a few months ago, and got assets in return, then the Hawks would have taken in salary in return and wouldn't have been able to sign Dwight. Cap space is an asset.

the only trade that would have benefited the Hawks and still get Dwight would be trading Horford for only draft picks. Which nobody would have done in the first place

Not necessarily true. Especially with the rising Cap this summer.

I mentioned it earlier, but had we traded Horford to BOS for Avery Bradley and #16...we'd have an all defensive team member at guard making $8 million, making it unnecessary to pay $17 million to Bazemore.

We'd also have another top 20 pick to add a young player of our choosing in the draft.


...and still be able to afford Howard.

[atlantabbq99]

In hindsight, if the Hawks traded Horford last year or a few months ago, and got assets in return, then the Hawks would have taken in salary in return and wouldn't have been able to sign Dwight. Cap space is an asset.

the only trade that would have benefited the Hawks and still get Dwight would be trading Horford for only draft picks. Which nobody would have done in the first place

Not necessarily true. Especially with the rising Cap this summer.

I mentioned it earlier, but had we traded Horford to BOS for Avery Bradley and #16...we'd have an all defensive team member at guard making $8 million, making it unnecessary to pay $17 million to Bazemore.

We'd also have another top 20 pick to add a young player of our choosing in the draft.


...and still be able to afford Howard.

Baz is better than Bradley and a waste at 8 million and the Hawks would not be able to sign Dwight. So again its a worst situation then just getting cap space

[Jamaaliver]

Baz is better than Bradley and a waste at 8 million and the Hawks would not be able to sign Dwight. So again its a worst situation then just getting cap space

Bradley is younger, makes less money, has made multiple All Defense Teams (including 2016) and shot the 3-pt shot at a slightly higher rate both last season and throughout his career.


It's difficult to say Bazemore is definitively better When Bradley is routinely recognized as a top defender and is a more proven shooter and scorer.

And, yes. With Bradley making half of what we signed Bazemore for and removing Horford's cap hold from the equation...we undoubtedly could have afforded to sign Howard to this exact same deal.

[MaceCase]

The claim was he was lost for "nothing". That's is completely refuted because cap space (or insurance payments) is not nothing, I have no interest in any other excuses being made when the crux of the argument has already been dismantled.

[nybluemeadow]

Wasn't Josh Smith lost for nothing, but then the Hawks ended up using his cap space to sign Paul Millsap, who is 3X the player Josh Smith is?

[Jamaaliver]

The claim was he was lost for "nothing". That's is completely refuted because cap space (or insurance payments) is not nothing, I have no interest in any other excuses being made when the crux of the argument has already been dismantled.

I, respectfully, disagree.

We lost AL Horford for nothing in return.

The same way OKC lost Durant for nothing in return.

The same way POR lost Aldridge for nothing in return.

The same way MIA lost LeBron for nothing in return.

I hope we have learned enough from those scenarios that we don't lose Millsap for nothing. An expiring Teague got the #12 pick in the draft. An expiring Kevin Love got the #1 pick in the draft. An expiring Ibaka got the #11 pick in the draft.

I'd hope we could get something in between.

[MaceCase]

Wasn't Josh Smith lost for nothing, but then the Hawks ended up using his cap space to sign Paul Millsap, who is 3X the player Josh Smith is?

Don't worry, there's a lack of understanding by some that a player leaving directly opening up the avenue to attain his replacement(s) is not "nothing".

[Jamaaliver]

Wasn't Josh Smith lost for nothing, but then the Hawks ended up using his cap space to sign Paul Millsap, who is 3X the player Josh Smith is?

Ummm...kind of.

We had dumped Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams and let Devin Harris & Josh Smith walk away. Meaning, we could have traded Josh Smith and still afforded Paul Millsap.

Which is ultimately my point:

Paul Millsap + a draft pick > just Paul Millsap

[Jamaaliver]

I know I'm pretty hated around here.

I get it.

But this isn't even argument.

Losing a max player for no return is bad. Particularly when you have no avenue to replace them.

There is no argument that OKC is in a better place because Durant walked away for nothing.



We literally just traded Jeff Teague so that he wouldn't walk away for nothing.

It's the same principle.

[jayu70]

Wasn't Josh Smith lost for nothing, but then the Hawks ended up using his cap space to sign Paul Millsap, who is 3X the player Josh Smith is?

Ummm...kind of.

We had dumped Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams and let Devin Harris & Josh Smith walk away. Meaning, we could have traded Josh Smith and still afforded Paul Millsap.

Which is ultimately my point:

Paul Millsap + a draft pick > just Paul Millsap

no we couldn't - the players we would have gotten back had long term contract (I think 2-3 yrs) so we would not have had the cap space to sign Paul that year.

[jayu70]

In hindsight, if the Hawks traded Horford last year or a few months ago, and got assets in return, then the Hawks would have taken in salary in return and wouldn't have been able to sign Dwight. Cap space is an asset.

the only trade that would have benefited the Hawks and still get Dwight would be trading Horford for only draft picks. Which nobody would have done in the first place

Not necessarily true. Especially with the rising Cap this summer.

I mentioned it earlier, but had we traded Horford to BOS for Avery Bradley and #16...we'd have an all defensive team member at guard making $8 million, making it unnecessary to pay $17 million to Bazemore.

We'd also have another top 20 pick to add a young player of our choosing in the draft.


...and still be able to afford Howard.

Bradley is a PG/SG - Baze is SG/SF

[Jamaaliver]

no we couldn't - the players we would have gotten back had long term contract (I think 2-3 yrs) so we would not have had the cap space to sign Paul that year.

Only on the MIL deal.

I showed you earlier, there were multiple teams attempting to acquire Josh from the start. Going back to the off-season of 2012.

This was literally months before the ill-fated trade decline in FEB 2013.

[jayu70]

The claim was he was lost for "nothing". That's is completely refuted because cap space (or insurance payments) is not nothing, I have no interest in any other excuses being made when the crux of the argument has already been dismantled.

I, respectfully, disagree.

We lost AL Horford for nothing in return

The same way OKC lost Durant for nothing in return.

The same way POR lost Aldridge for nothing in return.

The same way MIA lost LeBron for nothing in return.

I hope we have learned enough from those scenarios that we don't lose Millsap for nothing. An expiring Teague got the #12 pick in the draft. An expiring Kevin Love got the #1 pick in the draft. An expiring Ibaka got the #11 pick in the draft.

I'd hope we could get something in between.

The difference between us and them:
We found an adequate replacement for Al IMMEDIATELY (Just like Millsap for Josh). Portland, OKC, Mia can't say the same.

[Jamaaliver]

Bradley is a PG/SG - Baze is SG/SF

Bingo.

A trade for Bradley soves our need at backup PG, starting SG, saves us millions on a Bazemore overpay.

This opens up minutes at SF for Taurean Prince, Korver and Thabo.

[jayu70]

Bradley is a PG/SG - Baze is SG/SF

Bingo.

A trade for Bradley so'ves our need at backup PG, starting SG, saves us millions on a Bazemore overpay.

This opens up minutes at SF for Taurean Prince, Korver and Thabo.

Now it does. Wasn't needed at the trade deadline. We still had Teague and Dennis......ALL HINDSIGHT.

[Jamaaliver]

The difference between us and them:
We found an adequate replacement for Al IMMEDIATELY (Just like Millsap for Josh). Portland, OKC, Mia can't say the same.

But we could have had both.

We could afford Howard AND have additional picks/assets.




There is a reason Horford was on the trade block months ago:

The Hawks...are expected to listen to teams that inquire about Horford because they don’t want to risk losing him for nothing, league sources said.

Here

[Jamaaliver]

Bradley is a PG/SG - Baze is SG/SF

Bingo.

A trade for Bradley so'ves our need at backup PG, starting SG, saves us millions on a Bazemore overpay.

This opens up minutes at SF for Taurean Prince, Korver and Thabo.

Now it does. Wasn't needed at the trade deadline. We still had Teague and Dennis......ALL HINDSIGHT.

Jayu...we were shopping all three of our PGs at the trade deadline.

It's literally the opposite of hindsight because they saw this scenario coming months ago.

[MaceCase]

How does paying Bazemore 2-4 million less than all of his suitors make him an overpay but refusing to pay Horford 30 million more than all of his suitors is a travesty?

And stop trying to twist the narrative to fit your agenda. All of Teague (a year and a half before he would be a free agent), Dennis (a year and half before he'd be a RFA) and Horford were made available at the deadline. The motivation behind them all being on the block wasn't simply their contract status but the fact the team had slipped and fallen out of contender status. There's a reason why Teague was moved 8 months before it was a priority. There's a reason Dwight was already in the fold on the first day of free agency and Al wasn't just gifted a full 5 year max. The status quo needed to be shaken up and they did.

[PandaKidd]

Yeah for all the issues the FO has, we dont KNOW the deals that were offered at the deadline. Maybe the Celtics didnt offer 1st round picks for Horford, maybe they didnt offer anything of value. Maybe it was better to roll the dice and see what happens in the playoffs.

Same with Teague. also , Teague tweeted out that IM INJURED tweet literally days after we started hearing trade rumors. That HAD to have hurt his trade value too.

I guess you could say that OKC let KD go FOR NOTHING , but thats the game you play. You gamble with that 5th year option as your only asset to get them to come back.

Horford left because he was pissed they signed howard and that Horford wasnt treated like a franchise player. Seeya Al and THANK YOU (seriously have no ill will toward him).

Bazemore you paid market value.

[Jamaaliver]

And stop trying to twist the narrative to fit your agenda.

The status quo needed to be shaken up and they did.

Oy. I know the status quo needed to be shaken up. I've literally been calling for it for YEARS.


And they're not my words:

The rumor was that the Hawks aren’t willing to give [Horford] around $25 million per season, meaning the team now risks losing him for nothing in free agency.

Here