The case for Patrick Patterson at PF next year

Naysorn · Post #21 » by **Naysorn** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 10:53 pm

T-d0t wrote:I'd just start Poeltl and see where it goes or if we re-sign Thompson

There's something about Poeltl's game that tells me he can produce right away at the four position. He's just a very seasoned rookie. Can't wait for summer league.

nbafan341 · Post #22 » by **nbafan341** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 10:54 pm

you realize that there arent many pfs in thr league in general that could help so then you think maybe an undersized pf might help instead? I think melo or gay could actually be a pf but im not sure how iso dominant players would fit. melo's contract is cheaper than derozan ans melo can rebound pass and shoot, he'd be a good spacer for the offence. not surr what wed give thr knicks haha.

teamLeiweke · Post #23 » by **teamLeiweke** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 10:55 pm

To those saying Patt was outplayed by Scola at the start of last year.

Sure. That was a year ago tho. It was his first time starting and he was uncomfortable and kinda froze. At the end of the year and especially in the playoffs when he was much better than Scola, he was given starting mins and even started many games in the playoffs. He may have broken out of that shell now and will be more comfortable to go balls out as a starter this year. Players can struggle at first but improve and get better the more comfortable they become in a new role. He may be ready. And again, if it's not for someone substantially better than him, that is the type of player offensively and defensively that we need, why give up assets or big money if it doesn't move the needle?

Lowry
Demar
Carroll
Patt
Val

That team can still get 2nd/3rd seed this year. Do any of these other players put us in 1st and ahead of the Cavs, especially in the playoffs? No. Then why make a bold trade or give them big money? I'm sure Masai will pick up a couple of productive players on the cheap to help our bench like he did Scola and Biz last year. Plus our rookies or dleague players may over impress like Powell did last season. We didn't even have a healthy Carroll most of the year. Powell was starting. And Val is ready for a much bigger role as well.

Mikistan · Post #24 » by **Mikistan** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 10:55 pm

poeltl was a better college player than patpat and i expect him to be better at the next level too

nbafan341 · Post #25 » by **nbafan341** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 10:57 pm

Naysorn wrote:
T-d0t wrote:I'd just start Poeltl and see where it goes or if we re-sign Thompson

There's something about Poeltl's game that tells me he can produce right away at the four position. He's just a very seasoned rookie. Can't wait for summer league.

i def agree but that doesnt mean you should sit back and not try to improve the team. masai csn clear cap room and sign someone better than poetl and let poetl earn his time as a starter one day rather than being gifted the postition. if masai just lays back and banks on thr potential of a player hes not committed to winning and frankly I dont kno if the ownership qould go into lux tax either. behinning to think hes inconsistent with what he tells everyone

LURKINSINCE2003 · Post #26 » by **LURKINSINCE2003** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 10:57 pm

He fell off last season, but what other choice do we have?

nbafan341 · Post #27 » by **nbafan341** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 10:58 pm

patterson had a lot of chances for someone who didnt make use of the minutes, he shot was so inconsistent with wide open looks all season. hes been given minutes to play even when hes been cold and playing trash. im prrtty dure hes not a starting pf

phanman · Post #28 » by **phanman** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 10:59 pm

We've tried this before... he's horrid as starter for some odd reason.

In terms of need in that starting unit.. he fulfills everything we're pretty much asking for but its just the consistency issues.

He's probably the best PnR defender we have, he can stretch the floor, he's a pretty big dude so he has the ability to set solid screens, he has a post game etc etc.

Its just whenever he does start its like a deer in the headlights.

Jonn · Post #29 » by **Jonn** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 10:59 pm

I don't see a case. Mods close this thread. We need a Starting Power Forward.

djsunyc · Post #30 » by **djsunyc** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 11:04 pm

pat had to play fo many conssecutive mins in the playoffs and at his compete level, he probably wasnt able to get his legs under him.

teamLeiweke · Post #31 » by **teamLeiweke** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 11:07 pm

Jonn wrote:I don't see a case. Mods close this thread. We need a Starting Power Forward.

Lol.

Maybe Poelyl starts then, only plays 15 mins a game to help his development and see what he's got, and then Patt still gets all the starter mins, plays 30 mins a game, and closes the 4th quarter like he did in the 2nd half of the season when Scola wasn't cutting it anymore.

My point is we could be just as good with this team as we were last year, with a healthy Carroll, and Val taking the next step with a conscious effort to run more plays through him. Even if they improve us a little bit, none of these others marginal guys that require us to trade assets for or give big money to sign, help us beat the Cavs. So I can see why Masai is staying pat and keeping all his assets and money until he can land his Millsap/Pau Gasol/etc.

A lot of us want a trade just for the sake of a trade. A lot of us wanted a deal at the deadline for our 9th pick. But we kept our 9th pick and other assets that would have been packages with it for a new player, and still won 56 games and went to game 6 of the ECF finals without making that deal. Moves for the sake of making moves don't necessarily help us improve unless it's for a star. And along the way these marginal players are either expensive or cause us to give up the 9th pick and other assets that we might be able to use to land that star one day.

Mikistan · Post #32 » by **Mikistan** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 11:08 pm

djsunyc wrote:pat had to play fo many conssecutive mins in the playoffs and at his compete level, he probably wasnt able to get his legs under him.

lets see if hes out of shape in a contract year too

Mikistan · Post #33 » by **Mikistan** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 11:10 pm

teamLeiweke wrote:
Jonn wrote:I don't see a case. Mods close this thread. We need a Starting Power Forward.

Lol.

Maybe Poelyl starts then, only plays 15 mins a game to help his development and see what he's got, and then Patt still gets all the starter mins, plays 30 mins a game, and closes the 4th quarter like he did in the 2nd half of the season when Scola wasn't cutting it anymore.

My point is we could be just as good with this team as we were last year, which a healthy Carroll, and Val taking the next step with a conscious effort to run more plays through him. Even if they improve us a little bit, none of these others guys they tequire us to trade assets for or give big money to help us beat the Cavs. So I can see why Masai is staying pat until he lands his Millsap/Pau Gasol/etc.

A lot of us want a trade just for the sake of a trade. A lot of us wanted a deal at the deadline for our 9th pick. But we kept our 9th pick and other assets that would have been packages for it and still won 56 games and went to game 6 of the ECF finals. Moves for the sake of making moves don't necessarily help us improve unless it's for a star. And along the way these marginal players are either expensive or cause us to give up the 9th pick and other assets we might be able to use to land that star one day.

I just hate that we can't sign veterans to help our young players along because it means Casey will overplay them all season #poundtherock #hellorhigh

dhackett1565 · Post #34 » by **dhackett1565** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 11:11 pm

Patterson was the obvious starting PF last year, and as the roster stands, the obvious starting PF this year. Him "losing" his starting role is a joke. He didn't even attempt a 3 in his 4 pre-season starts, he was trying to stretch out his drive game to give him a counter come the regular season. DeRozan was also trying new stuff, and was shooting worse than Patterson through those first few pre-season games, and no one thought he should lose his starting spot. Because it would be tremendously stupid to make a call like that based off of a small sample of pre-season games. Alas, we suffered through an entire season of Scola starting and being terrible AND a terrible fit with the starters.

Patterson is a perfectly acceptable starting PF. He's just not the big upgrade we wanted to get over the top. We'll keep shooting for that, I'm sure, but there is no reason to panic and try to get a mediocre starter just so Patterson can come off the bench. We do need to have some forward depth, as we should be more careful with Carroll's minutes this year and Pat can't operate above about 28 MPG. If they think Poeltl can play PF, OK, but I expect we'll need to have a guy like James Johnson re-signed to give some moderately reliable depth at the 3 and 4.

teamLeiweke · Post #35 » by **teamLeiweke** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 11:12 pm

djsunyc wrote:pat had to play fo many conssecutive mins in the playoffs and at his compete level, he probably wasnt able to get his legs under him.

I agree. With his defensively intensity especially in the playoffs with no breaks his legs were prob gone. Once the legs go the shot goes with it. Maybe now that he is use to that role and big mins they can give him proper rests as a starter and his shot won't be as inconsistent. Hopefully he is training all off-season to be ready for the role if that is the teams plan for next year now. He is gonna be a FA after this season as well, and would love to have a big year.

fame · Post #36 » by **fame** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 11:12 pm

teamLeiweke wrote:To those saying Patt was outplayed by Scola at the start of last year.

Sure. That was a year ago tho. It was his first time starting and he was uncomfortable and kinda froze. At the end of the year and especially in the playoffs when he was much better than Scola, he was given starting mins and even started many games in the playoffs. He may have broken out of that shell now and will be more comfortable to go balls out as a starter this year. Players can struggle at first but improve and get better the more comfortable they become in a new role. He may be ready. And again, if it's not for someone substantially better than him, that is the type of player offensively and defensively that we need, why give up assets or big money if it doesn't move the needle?

Lowry
Demar
Carroll
Patt
Val

That team can still get 2nd/3rd seed this year. Do any of these other players put us in 1st and ahead of the Cavs, especially in the playoffs? No. Then why make a bold trade or give them big money? I'm sure Masai will pick up a couple of productive players on the cheap to help our bench like he did Scola and Biz last year. Plus our rookies or dleague players may over impress like Powell did last season. We didn't even have a healthy Carroll most of the year. Powell was starting. And Val is ready for a much bigger role as well.

I like Pat but I lost confidence in him after that barrage of missed shots in last seasons playoffs combined with his shoddy defense against Gooden in the series the year before.

Like having him on the team but don't trust him with a huge role.

SwiftyV · Post #37 » by **SwiftyV** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 11:12 pm

It's obviously our only option right now unless we start Poeltl.

I do think that with a summer of conditioning that he could be able to play long starter minutes for us. I think last year once he really started playing more minutes he kind of wore down. Perhaps it was a result of his body not being ready for those starter type minutes? If he's told early on he'll have that role he could potentially get his conditioning up to that level. Just a thought.

Kingsway_fan · Post #38 » by **Kingsway_fan** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 11:26 pm

Problem is that Masai paid big bucks for 3 and D guy Carrolle but he is poor at both and we got exposed in playoffs.... teams not worried about guarding our 3 or 4

hankscorpioLA · Post #39 » by **hankscorpioLA** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 11:35 pm

fame wrote:Rather see Poeltl start

We know what Pat can do. He's a solid guy off the bench but nothing more and I doubt he ever will be. Shot is too inconsistent, defense is overrated but he has good games here and there and is a team player.

Maybe eventually...but I don't like the idea of starting a rookie big man at the start of the season. Its tough enough to adjust to the NBA game in general. Don't like the idea of throwing on the need to avoid committing fouls as well.

2wayplaya · Post #40 » by **2wayplaya** » Tue Jul 5, 2016 11:41 pm

appologies for the rant, feel free to skip ahead if you dont feel like reading....

****************************

I think that the reason so many people wanted a big FA signing this year has less to do with getting to the finals and more to do with shedding the insecurities of not being a "destination" franchise.

Many were hoping that our playoff success was enough to convince a top class FA that Toronto was just a player away. That Drake as our global ambassador would be the final peice to the puzzle. That showcasing our city in one of histories most memorable allstar weekends would do the trick.

Many seem to fear that not being able to go out and get a 'tip the scales' type of player in free agency means the stigma of Toronto still exisists - which only deepens the insecurities they have.

To me, what is more telling, what is more impressive, is that for consecutive years we have been able to retain our major free agent assets. They dont want to play anywhere else, and like us, they know how **** awesome this city really is. Gone are the days of overpaying disgruntled/over the hill/flash in the pan players to come play horrible ball. Gone are the days that players that we invest millions into developing decide to leave for lower taxes and warmer weather.

What people forget is that - WE THE NORTH - is not just a slogan, it embodies everything this team is. The perpettual underdog. The outcast, reddiculed, consistently overlooked team that comes in and finds a way to beat you. It will never be easy folks. We will NEVER be golden state or Miami. Super teams will not join here. Embrace the fact that this team, like you and I, have to work really **** hard to get what we want. Identify with that. Feel secure in that.

Patterson, scola, poeltl, siakim, bruno, carrol, JV. It doesnt matter. Just go out, and continue to find ways to win. This is our team - and it just isnt going to ever be easy. But hard work does pay off, and i can cheer this team on, no matter who we have, as long as they rep my city, respect our love, and play hard.