Barney > Tulo

[Randle McMurphy]

If tulo settles in, Jays should come out even on that contract. So Hoffman and Castro cost Rockies ~$50 million...

or you cancel the dollar amounts on the contract, Jays will be paying Tulo ~ 55 million for 5 yrs ( in addition to the prospect cost - consider it a comp pick for the rockies). Still,it is entirely possible, from the 2014 draft haul, jays kept the best arm.

I have no problem with that deal. Thor deal though...

There was never anything wrong with the deal. Getting rid of the corpse of Jose Reyes (and his awful negative contract) is too often ignored in the discussion of that one.

[Schad]

If tulo settles in, Jays should come out even on that contract. So Hoffman and Castro cost Rockies ~$50 million...

or you cancel the dollar amounts on the contract, Jays will be paying Tulo ~ 55 million for 5 yrs ( in addition to the prospect cost - consider it a comp pick for the rockies). Still,it is entirely possible, from the 2014 draft haul, jays kept the best arm.

I have no problem with that deal. Thor deal though...

Settling in isn't the question. It's whether he can physically handle being an above-average-to-good player deep into his 30s. He's still good enough, if he can remain at SS, even though his hitting in 2015 and 2016 has fallen. However, should injuries diminish his range, you could potentially be looking at a pretty average 3B, or a league-average-hitting 1B on a major deal.

[guvernator]

If tulo settles in, Jays should come out even on that contract. So Hoffman and Castro cost Rockies ~$50 million...

or you cancel the dollar amounts on the contract, Jays will be paying Tulo ~ 55 million for 5 yrs ( in addition to the prospect cost - consider it a comp pick for the rockies). Still,it is entirely possible, from the 2014 draft haul, jays kept the best arm.

I have no problem with that deal. Thor deal though...

Settling in isn't the question. It's whether he can physically handle being an above-average-to-good player deep into his 30s. He's still good enough, if he can remain at SS, even though his hitting in 2015 and 2016 has fallen. However, should injuries diminish his range, you could potentially be looking at a pretty average 3B, or a league-average-hitting 1B on a major deal.

He really doesnt have to do too much though. By most recent estimates, a War is worth 8-9 million... Prime Tulo would earn the jays' investment in him within a year. Ofcourse, this is not prime Tulo. Still, he is on pace for 3.5 bwar even with a projection of ~120 games played.

And Jays could still get lucky if he produces like his old self even for 1 year out of 5 (not out of realm of possibility).

[Schad]

He really doesnt have to do too much though. By most recent estimates, a War is worth 8-9 million... Prime Tulo would earn the jays' investment in him within a year. Ofcourse, this is not prime Tulo. Still, he is on pace for 3.5 bwar even with a projection of ~120 games played.

And Jays could still get lucky if he produces like his old self even for 1 year out of 5 (not out of realm of possibility).

He's owed a minimum of $78m (four years + the buyout for his fifth year), for his age 32-35 seasons; that'll probably be in the region of 8 WAR as value rates change. It isn't wholly unlikely that he reaches that, so long as he either i) sees his hitting rebound, or ii) is able to stick at a somewhat important defensive position for an extended period.

But if he ultimately ends up having to move off shortstop, any further drop in his offensive production could leave him as a below-average starter. Which might be okay value over the duration of the contract, but if the production is front-loaded and you're then paying $58m for three seasons of meh, it's a boat anchor. As it was with Reyes, who had actually outperformed what he was paid for the 2.5 years that we had him, but was clearly trending toward being a big contract attached to an unproductive player.

[Skin Blues]

This won't be a surprise to anybody who has been watching the games, but here's what these two have done in the 3 weeks since the thread was started:

Barney: .233/.343/.300 and 79 wRC+
Tulo: .317/.380/.683 and 176 wRC+

And Tulo has as many HRs as Barney has total hits. Barney has at least emerged as a quality utility man, which he barely qualified for in the past. But he is not a full-time starter. Still useful, though, considering Goins has more value to this team as a reliever than he does in any role that requires him to swing a bat.