The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4)

[MisterHibachi]

I don't understand why Miami can't give Wade his absolute max? They have his Bird rights.

[Basileus777]

I don't understand why Miami can't give Wade his absolute max? They have his Bird rights.

They can, they just don't want to. Which is why Wade is pissed after he took those pay cuts in earlier contracts.

[LikeABosh]

Is it just me whose convinced that the addition of Wade wouldn't make much of a difference? I don't like the fit at all, with Wade's lack of shooting and below-average defense (at this point of his career). His RAPM metrics were abysmal last season - not surprising considering the Heat were significantly better with him off the floor in both the RS and PS - and he'll be 35 by the time the playoffs start next year. Is him taking away minutes from Kyrie, JR, or even Shump a good thing? Maybe if he came off the bench and played a Manu role, but the chances of that are slim to none, and you also have to factor in that we'd have to give up Shump and/or JR to sign Wade.

Said this before, but I think all signing Wade would do is provide ammo for the anti-LeBron crowd.

He's gonna come up huge in the playoffs every now and again. That's what he does now. If the Cavs keep him as a bench player for instant offense, I definitely think that makes them a better team.

It's not adding Durant, but it's like adding Iggy. Don't know why you guys wouldn't want that

[yoyoboy]

Is it just me whose convinced that the addition of Wade wouldn't make much of a difference? I don't like the fit at all, with Wade's lack of shooting and below-average defense (at this point of his career). His RAPM metrics were abysmal last season - not surprising considering the Heat were significantly better with him off the floor in both the RS and PS - and he'll be 35 by the time the playoffs start next year. Is him taking away minutes from Kyrie, JR, or even Shump a good thing? Maybe if he came off the bench and played a Manu role, but the chances of that are slim to none, and you also have to factor in that we'd have to give up Shump and/or JR to sign Wade.

Said this before, but I think all signing Wade would do is provide ammo for the anti-LeBron crowd.

He's gonna come up huge in the playoffs every now and again. That's what he does now. If the Cavs keep him as a bench player for instant offense, I definitely think that makes them a better team.

It's not adding Durant, but it's like adding Iggy. Don't know why you guys wouldn't want that

I agree with that, but I see no scenario where Wade would agree not only to take a major paycut, but to come off the bench.

He's undoubtedly going back to Miami, so I guess this is all moot.

[Larry David]

Until I see them roll through the league I still think the cavs have a chance. Long shot maybe but its there......possibly

[JulesWinnfield]

Is it just me whose convinced that the addition of Wade wouldn't make much of a difference? I don't like the fit at all, with Wade's lack of shooting and below-average defense (at this point of his career). His RAPM metrics were abysmal last season - not surprising considering the Heat were significantly better with him off the floor in both the RS and PS - and he'll be 35 by the time the playoffs start next year. Is him taking away minutes from Kyrie, JR, or even Shump a good thing? Maybe if he came off the bench and played a Manu role, but the chances of that are slim to none, and you also have to factor in that we'd have to give up Shump and/or JR to sign Wade.

Said this before, but I think all signing Wade would do is provide ammo for the anti-LeBron crowd.

He's gonna come up huge in the playoffs every now and again. That's what he does now. If the Cavs keep him as a bench player for instant offense, I definitely think that makes them a better team.

It's not adding Durant, but it's like adding Iggy. Don't know why you guys wouldn't want that

I have no faith that he would come off the bench in that type of role though. Also the part about him raising his level in the playoffs was certainly true this past year, but every year he teamed with Lebron outside of 2011 his play declined in postseason from his regular season standard, sometimes just falling off a cliff. Of course that was largely due to injury and not some fear of the big stage, but I have no trust in his newfound health last season lasting, even with a role reduction (a role reduction I don't see him being thrilled about either)...

[LikeABosh]

I agree with that, but I see no scenario where Wade would agree not only to take a major paycut, but to come off the bench.

He's undoubtedly going back to Miami, so I guess this is all moot.

Yeah, I mean it's a crazy idea either way. Just entertaining the most sensible way of using him

[Larry David]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5nhdTDZQ4w[/youtube]

this is a good video. If they can play a nice spread out offense like this with movement they can be as unstoppable as anyone on a given night

[PaulieWal]

I don't understand why Miami can't give Wade his absolute max? They have his Bird rights.

Wait, really? We all mocked the Kobe contract and what it did to Lakers the last two years even as they were tanking. 2/40 is a really fair offer for Wade IMO. When the initial 10 mil/per report came out I was on Wade's side but now I think both sides are just being stubborn. Wade wanted 3/50 last year. He got 20 mil last year and now is getting 2/40 again.

The Heat have lost JJ, Deng, Bosh is a huge unknown, and they are likely to lose TJ. THey are giving Wade all of their cap space. But they still need the remaining flexibility to sign minimum guys and use their MLE.

BTW, the more I read about this situations the more bizarre it becomes. Wade is mad at the Heat but he isn't mad at his agent who is also Bosh's agent who strong-armed the Heat into giving him a full max after Bron left. If Bosh hadn't take his full max Wade would have got some of that money.

When James cost Wade $10 million by leaving — Wade had opted out of a $42 million deal to create max room for James, only to get stuck with a $32 million deal when James bolted — a frenzy started. Houston swooped in to steal Bosh. According to three sources, the Heat was informed that Bosh was leaving for Houston for $88 million. Miami offered about $7 million more than that. Nope. Had to be the max — $118 million. Nothing less than the max would keep Bosh in Miami. The Heat wanted to pay Bosh and Wade equally — $18 million a year — and protect future flexibility. Nope. Bosh gets the max or he’s gone. And that’s how Thomas got one client his money in Miami while the other one, the older one, now fights for more dollars from a team that has already offered him all of its remaining cap space. Wade doesn’t blame James or Bosh or his agent publicly, but he sure as hell seems to blame the Heat.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/dan-le-batard/article87862542.html#storylink=cpy

[JulesWinnfield]

Wade has more game left than Kobe though... But even still, I don't know that the lakers regret that move. What did it ultimately cost them? Their championship window was shut already, and they never allowed the visual of the guy that defined a generation to their fans wearing a different uniform. He ended it a lifer. There is some value in that, especially given it is increasingly rare. Plus we aren't taking about 5 year deals here. We are talking about 2 year deals. If Miami let's Wade go because they won't budge off 2 for 40 and lose him for 2 for 50, it just seems so short sighted to me and it will be regretted. That 5 mil per year for 2 seasons isn't effecting their ultimate place in the hierarchy one iota.

[Basileus777]

The Lakers wanted to tank and Kobe's contract actually helped them do it. Unless you think forcing Kobe out of town or paying him less after a public battle was going to change their free agency fortunes (it wouldn't have), that contract ultimately didn't mean a thing.

[MisterHibachi]

I don't understand why Miami can't give Wade his absolute max? They have his Bird rights.

Wait, really? We all mocked the Kobe contract and what it did to Lakers the last two years even as they were tanking. 2/40 is a really fair offer for Wade IMO. When the initial 10 mil/per report came out I was on Wade's side but now I think both sides are just being stubborn. Wade wanted 3/50 last year. He got 20 mil last year and now is getting 2/40 again.

The Heat have lost JJ, Deng, Bosh is a huge unknown, and they are likely to lose TJ. THey are giving Wade all of their cap space. But they still need the remaining flexibility to sign minimum guys and use their MLE.

BTW, the more I read about this situations the more bizarre it becomes. Wade is mad at the Heat but he isn't mad at his agent who is also Bosh's agent who strong-armed the Heat into giving him a full max after Bron left. If Bosh hadn't take his full max Wade would have got some of that money.

When James cost Wade $10 million by leaving — Wade had opted out of a $42 million deal to create max room for James, only to get stuck with a $32 million deal when James bolted — a frenzy started. Houston swooped in to steal Bosh. According to three sources, the Heat was informed that Bosh was leaving for Houston for $88 million. Miami offered about $7 million more than that. Nope. Had to be the max — $118 million. Nothing less than the max would keep Bosh in Miami. The Heat wanted to pay Bosh and Wade equally — $18 million a year — and protect future flexibility. Nope. Bosh gets the max or he’s gone. And that’s how Thomas got one client his money in Miami while the other one, the older one, now fights for more dollars from a team that has already offered him all of its remaining cap space. Wade doesn’t blame James or Bosh or his agent publicly, but he sure as hell seems to blame the Heat.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/dan-le-batard/article87862542.html#storylink=cpy

I'm not saying they should give it to him (but really, maybe they should. The Heat have no chance at a ring, and apparently Durant was put off by how they treated Wade, but anyways, that's not my point), but I'm reading tweets (and the thread on the Heat board) on how they can only offer him a certain amount, which happens to be below his potential max, unless they move a few pieces. I'm just wondering why that's necessary. Why can't they offer him the max, even if they have zero cap space? Isn't that how Bird rights work? It's more of a CBA question than a what-does-Wade-deserve question.

As for that article, Wade is not gonna be mad at another player or his own agent for taking max money. Not only is Wade a smart guy himself, he's best friends with LeBron and we all know what LeBron's opinions are on players taking pay cuts. These guys know that the real goal is to increase the size of the pie for all players and not just cut a bigger slice for themselves.

[PaulieWal]

The Lakers wanted to tank and Kobe's contract actually helped them do it. Unless you think forcing Kobe out of town or paying him less after a public battle was going to change their free agency fortunes (it wouldn't have), that contract ultimately didn't mean a thing.

Doesn't matter. That was not good management. It was mocked as it should have been. Sure, ultimately Kobe got his money and the Lakers were going to suck anyway but this is some revisionist history now IMO.

Also, people are forgetting that the Heat already have a lot of uncertainty with Bosh. You can't have two max guys on your roster like that. With Bosh's uncertain future I rather the Heat not max Wade out.

And I know the Heat will just be a middling playoff team again, but I rather just win 45-50 games again than have two massive potentially disastrous bad contracts on the books.

All that being said I do want and expect him to stay. Hopefully both sides can work it out...

[PaulieWal]

Hibachi, where are you reading KD was off-put by the Heat's treatment of Wade and how have they mistreated him anyway? Even Whiteside agreed to take less than his max if KD were to come. If you read the article Wade never even got in touch with KD like players from all other teams...

KD/Wade don't have a relationship to begin with. That's why I never thought the Heat had any chance to lure KD.

[MisterHibachi]

Hibachi, where are you reading KD was off-put by the Heat's treatment of Wade and how have they mistreated him anyway? Even Whiteside agreed to take less than his max if KD were to come. If you read the article Wade never even got in touch with KD like players from all other teams...

KD/Wade don't have a relationship to begin with. That's why I never thought the Heat had any chance to lure KD.

Saw it on twitter, can't remember which reporter. I should've included that in my post, apologies. And who really expects Wade to pitch Durant when he himself isn't sure he's gonna be back? If they really offered him $10 mil/year at the beginning in this market, I would be pissed as hell too. That's straight disrespectful.

And yeah, KD to Miami always seemed a long shot. There's no way he was gonna go to an organization LeBron thought wasn't good enough for him.

[PaulieWal]

Hibachi, where are you reading KD was off-put by the Heat's treatment of Wade and how have they mistreated him anyway? Even Whiteside agreed to take less than his max if KD were to come. If you read the article Wade never even got in touch with KD like players from all other teams...

KD/Wade don't have a relationship to begin with. That's why I never thought the Heat had any chance to lure KD.

Saw it on twitter, can't remember which reporter. I should've included that in my post, apologies. And who really expects Wade to pitch Durant when he himself isn't sure he's gonna be back? If they really offered him $10 mil/year at the beginning in this market, I would be pissed as hell too. That's straight disrespectful.

I agree the $10 mil/per is a pathetic offer but multiple guys have also said Heat never offered that and even Mike Wallace who's usually been pretty pro Wade/Bron/Whiteside over the HEat's FO said that the initial offer was 15 per not 10. Either way I agree, 10 was bad but now it's 2/40 which is more than fair IMO.

[PaulieWal]

There's no way he was gonna go to an organization LeBron thought wasn't good enough for him.

Lol what?

LeBron left because he truly did want to win one for the Cavs and gain more power. I mean I know you are a big LeBron fan but that's way off-base. Heat is a much better organization than the Cavs. LeBron didn't leave because the Heat as an organization weren't good enough for him, he left because Wade declined pretty fast, Cavs had younger pieces, and he could reap the "Going Home" power play/PR benefits.

[MisterHibachi]

Hibachi, where are you reading KD was off-put by the Heat's treatment of Wade and how have they mistreated him anyway? Even Whiteside agreed to take less than his max if KD were to come. If you read the article Wade never even got in touch with KD like players from all other teams...

KD/Wade don't have a relationship to begin with. That's why I never thought the Heat had any chance to lure KD.

Saw it on twitter, can't remember which reporter. I should've included that in my post, apologies. And who really expects Wade to pitch Durant when he himself isn't sure he's gonna be back? If they really offered him $10 mil/year at the beginning in this market, I would be pissed as hell too. That's straight disrespectful.

I agree the $10 mil/per is a pathetic offer but multiple guys have also said Heat never offered that and even Mike Wallace who's usually been pretty pro Wade/Bron/Whiteside over the HEat's FO said that the initial offer was 15 per not 10. Either way I agree, 10 was bad but now it's 2/40 which is more than fair IMO.

I know, but leading with such a lowball offer likely soured Wade on any future negotiations. In any case, Wade should do whatever he wants, go for max money if someone's willing to pay him that or whatever. I was just wondering why any pieces needed to be moved for Wade to field a max offer from the Heat. Bird rights don't work the way I thought they did?

[Basileus777]

The Lakers wanted to tank and Kobe's contract actually helped them do it. Unless you think forcing Kobe out of town or paying him less after a public battle was going to change their free agency fortunes (it wouldn't have), that contract ultimately didn't mean a thing.

Doesn't matter. That was not good management. It was mocked as it should have been. Sure, ultimately Kobe got his money and the Lakers were going to suck anyway but this is some revisionist history now IMO.

Also, people are forgetting that the Heat already have a lot of uncertainty with Bosh. You can't have two max guys on your roster like that. With Bosh's uncertain future I rather the Heat not max Wade out.

And I know the Heat will just be a middling playoff team again, but I rather just win 45-50 games again than have two massive potentially disastrous bad contracts on the books.

All that being said I do want and expect him to stay. Hopefully both sides can work it out...

Obviously you'd rather your team pay as little as possible for every possible player, but if we're talking about a 2 year deal for Wade I don't see it as the massive risk you're painting it as. It'd be better for their flexibility to pay him less, but you have to look at the risk of losing him altogether and what that'd mean to the franchise. The Nuggets are apparently offering Wade 2/52, that's what the market is saying he's worth.

[Dupp]

I don't understand why Miami can't give Wade his absolute max? They have his Bird rights.

Wait, really? We all mocked the Kobe contract and what it did to Lakers the last two years even as they were tanking. 2/40 is a really fair offer for Wade IMO. When the initial 10 mil/per report came out I was on Wade's side but now I think both sides are just being stubborn. Wade wanted 3/50 last year. He got 20 mil last year and now is getting 2/40 again.

The Heat have lost JJ, Deng, Bosh is a huge unknown, and they are likely to lose TJ. THey are giving Wade all of their cap space. But they still need the remaining flexibility to sign minimum guys and use their MLE.

BTW, the more I read about this situations the more bizarre it becomes. Wade is mad at the Heat but he isn't mad at his agent who is also Bosh's agent who strong-armed the Heat into giving him a full max after Bron left. If Bosh hadn't take his full max Wade would have got some of that money.

When James cost Wade $10 million by leaving — Wade had opted out of a $42 million deal to create max room for James, only to get stuck with a $32 million deal when James bolted — a frenzy started. Houston swooped in to steal Bosh. According to three sources, the Heat was informed that Bosh was leaving for Houston for $88 million. Miami offered about $7 million more than that. Nope. Had to be the max — $118 million. Nothing less than the max would keep Bosh in Miami. The Heat wanted to pay Bosh and Wade equally — $18 million a year — and protect future flexibility. Nope. Bosh gets the max or he’s gone. And that’s how Thomas got one client his money in Miami while the other one, the older one, now fights for more dollars from a team that has already offered him all of its remaining cap space. Wade doesn’t blame James or Bosh or his agent publicly, but he sure as hell seems to blame the Heat.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/dan-le-batard/article87862542.html#storylink=cpy

Hold on its not really the same.... Wade is still way better than kobe was and more importantly the salary cap has sky rocketed. Wade getting 20 per now is like kobe getting 10 per then, even less if you take his abilities into account.