Trade Idea Thread 15-16

[Jkam31]

Yes I'd easily do Gay for Chandler if we are deadest on trading Gay. Chandler is an elite 3-D guy who can guard the 2-4 spot


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[c3j3h]

What do you guys think abut the idea of trading Boogie to Denver for a package centered around Nikola Jokic? Denver has a ton of attractive assets in addition to Jokic, who is an absolute freak of a player. And he's Serbian! Vlade gets his Serb, Malone gets his Boogie. Match made in heaven!


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jokicni01.html

[Jkam31]

If we trade Gay I'd like to focus on the SG position. I think Casspi/Barnes can handle SF both good defenders and know there role. I'd trade Ben/Gay for Redick/2nd round pick. JJ fits perfectly spreading the floor and providing defense more importantly it improves our bench. Afflalo would be the scoring punch next to vets Temple/Casspi


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[SacSanity]

What do you guys think abut the idea of trading Boogie to Denver for a package centered around Nikola Jokic? Denver has a ton of attractive assets in addition to Jokic, who is an absolute freak of a player. And he's Serbian! Vlade gets his Serb, Malone gets his Boogie. Match made in heaven!


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jokicni01.html

I think a package centered around Nikola Jokic would one of the worse possible offers a team could make to us for DCUZ. If we do trade Cousins, we have to see the current state of our team to decide what kind of package we would want. If we are doing well and have some strong pieces, we can trade for immediate impact players. If we are just flat out bad, we can trade for youngs and picks. All in all, definitely not Jokic.

[City of Trees]

What do you guys think abut the idea of trading Boogie to Denver for a package centered around Nikola Jokic? Denver has a ton of attractive assets in addition to Jokic, who is an absolute freak of a player. And he's Serbian! Vlade gets his Serb, Malone gets his Boogie. Match made in heaven!


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jokicni01.html

I think if the Kings are to trade Boogie then first order of business is finding an all-star to get in return. One who is under contract for at least two years so the franchise has time to make a favorable impression. Jokic COULD develop into an all-star caliber player one day but I most certainly will not trade Cousins for him. Too much risk.

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[Kings2013]

Papa will be better than Jokic

[PaKwAn]

with the durant fiasco and the big possibility of losing westbrook once he becomes a free agent as well, i think the percentage of Cuz being traded jumps very highly... no matter how nice the player is or how much he loves the city he has been playing but once he hits free agency especially with the caliber of cuz, it only needs a little sway for teams to pry him away and we may end up with nothing by that time... even if they start winning now i don't think it will help much..

[City of Trees]

with the durant fiasco and the big possibility of losing westbrook once he becomes a free agent as well, i think the percentage of Cuz being traded jumps very highly... no matter how nice the player is or how much he loves the city he has been playing but once he hits free agency especially with the caliber of cuz, it only needs a little sway for teams to pry him away and we may end up with nothing by that time... even if they start winning now i don't think it will help much..

IMO Kings will never going to let Cousins walk for nothing.

Durant was a different situation because OKC had two stars. You don't trade the first one instead you hope he continues to stay. Once the first star leaves there is no way in hell OKC let's the second one leave without compensation

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[PaKwAn]

with the durant fiasco and the big possibility of losing westbrook once he becomes a free agent as well, i think the percentage of Cuz being traded jumps very highly... no matter how nice the player is or how much he loves the city he has been playing but once he hits free agency especially with the caliber of cuz, it only needs a little sway for teams to pry him away and we may end up with nothing by that time... even if they start winning now i don't think it will help much..

IMO Kings will never going to let Cousins walk for nothing.

Durant was a different situation because OKC had two stars. You don't trade the first one instead you hope he continues to stay. Once the first star leaves there is no way in hell OKC let's the second one leave without compensation

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it just sucks that small market teams are handicapped when it comes to this..its already tough to sign good named free agents to the team and to top it off the star of the team that was molded by its franchise could just walk away in his prime..

i guess thats why vlade is somewhat stockpiling talents just incase they trade him away and build again..

[City of Trees]

with the durant fiasco and the big possibility of losing westbrook once he becomes a free agent as well, i think the percentage of Cuz being traded jumps very highly... no matter how nice the player is or how much he loves the city he has been playing but once he hits free agency especially with the caliber of cuz, it only needs a little sway for teams to pry him away and we may end up with nothing by that time... even if they start winning now i don't think it will help much..

IMO Kings will never going to let Cousins walk for nothing.

Durant was a different situation because OKC had two stars. You don't trade the first one instead you hope he continues to stay. Once the first star leaves there is no way in hell OKC let's the second one leave without compensation

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it just sucks that small market teams are handicapped when it comes to this..its already tough to sign good named free agents to the team and to top it off the star of the team that was molded by its franchise could just walk away in his prime..

i guess thats why vlade is somewhat stockpiling talents just incase they trade him away and build again..

Durant going to GSW falls on the NBAPA shoulders. If the NBAPA would have been open to the Owners idea of a smooth cap increase instead of this 2 year mess, a 73 win team with 3 all-stars would never have been able to afford the top free agent.

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[SacKingZZZ]

I wonder if an upcoming lockout would help the Kings in retaining Cuz? I don't think there is any doubt we are going to hear more and more about the owners demanding a harder cap and a franchise tag. If they get it that could really help a team like Sacramento.

Then again, if things start looking up next year, I believe in Big Cuz. He's a loyal dude and he could be the one to set a new precedent that pansies leave when the going gets tough.

[c3j3h]

What do you guys think abut the idea of trading Boogie to Denver for a package centered around Nikola Jokic? Denver has a ton of attractive assets in addition to Jokic, who is an absolute freak of a player. And he's Serbian! Vlade gets his Serb, Malone gets his Boogie. Match made in heaven!


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jokicni01.html

I think a package centered around Nikola Jokic would one of the worse possible offers a team could make to us for DCUZ. If we do trade Cousins, we have to see the current state of our team to decide what kind of package we would want. If we are doing well and have some strong pieces, we can trade for immediate impact players. If we are just flat out bad, we can trade for youngs and picks. All in all, definitely not Jokic.

I feel like I'm not making my case very clear here. Let me give you some context to frame what I'm talking about. Here is a comparison for Jokic's rookie season vs Boogie's rookie season:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=jokicni01&y2=2011&p2=couside01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Now, the Per Game averages don't add up very evenly because Boogie played a lot more as a rookie than Jokic did (Jokic was a 2nd round pick and was one of 3 promising young Centers for the Nuggets to start the year, behind Jusuf Nurkic, who had a great rookie season himself the year before).

But aside from the scoring volume numbers, Jokic out-performed Boogie in nearly every category. Jokic performed better than Boogie as far as Per 36 min statistics in the following categories:

FG%, 3PA, 3P%, 2P%, FT%, ORB, DRB, TRB, AST, STL, TO.

The only categories Boogie won were PPG (Boogie took 3 more shots Per 36 than Jokic did, plus 2.4 more FT, but only scored 1.3 more points), and Blocks per game, where Boogie beat out Jokic by 1/10th of a block per game.

The Advanced Stats are where Jokic really kills him. Jokic outperformed Boogie in the following categories:

PER, TS%, 3PR, ORB%, DRB%, TRB%, AST%, STL%, BLK%, TOV%, OWS, WS, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, VORP, ORTG, DRTG

Across the board, Jokic crushed Boogie in their rookie seasons in the Advanced Metrics. Jokic posted a PER that was 7 points higher than Boogie! Jokic was a better rebounder across the board, a better passer, a better defender, scored more efficiently, and turned the ball over less. He also had a significantly lower Usage Rate than Boogie.

Perhaps the most compelling stat of them all is Win Shares. Jokic contributed 6.7 Win Shares as a rookie, which is just incredible. To give you an idea of how that compares, DeMarcus Cousins has scored higher than 6.7 Win Shares only ONE time in his career so far, and that was in his 4th season, as a 24 year-old! Boogie posted 1.1 Win Shares as a rookie. Jokic did all of this while playing only 21.7 MPG, on a team that won 33 games. That is a truly incredible feat, as Win Shares are weighted towards a player's total contribution to wins, and minutes played are directly proportional to Win Shares.

Now here is a look at that same comparison for this season: This is Jokic as a 20 year-old rookie vs Boogie as a 26 year-old, 6th year veteran:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=jokicni01&y2=2016&p2=couside01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Once again, you'll see that the biggest discrepancy between the 2 is scoring. Boogie takes WAY more shots than Jokic does on the floor in every way measurable, and also has the highest Usage Rate in the NBA. But their non-scoring Per 36 min stats are pretty close. They put up very similar Per 36 min stats in rebounding, assists, and steals. Boogie scored a lot more and took a lot more shots, but Jokic scored much more efficiently. Boogie also averaged nearly twice as many turnovers Per 36 minutes.

But again, the efficiency stats point to Jokic. Boogie scored higher in PER (but the gap was not very wide for a 6th year vet vs a rookie at 2.1 points), but the rest of the advanced stats paint a better picture. Jokic scored better or equal to DeMarcus in:

TS%, ORB%, TRB%, AST%, STL%, TOV%. Boogie gets the edge in drawing fouls and rim protection, and had nearly double the Usage rate!

But then you take a look at the other efficiency ratings stats, and see how truly special Jokic is. Jokic scored better in Offensive Win Shares at 4.5, compared to 2.4 for Boogie. The whole argument behind keeping Boogie is that he is the best offensive Center in the league, yet he produced 2 fewer wins than a rookie who played 500 fewer minutes and started 10 fewer games! Boogie gets the nod in Defensive Win Shares, although Jokic still scored very well at 2.2. But Jokic produced more Win Shares overall than DeMarcus Cousins did last year, at 6.7 compared to 5.7 for Boogie. That was on a team that won the same number of games, in a season where Jokic played 500 fewer minutes than DeMarcus!

Boogie was an All Star and an All-NBA player this year, and this 20 year-old kid from Serbia is putting up comparable numbers across the board, as a rookie, to what Boogie is putting up as a 6th year vet. And Jokic is owed less than $5 Million over the next 3 years, compared to $35 Million for Boogie over the next 2!!!

I'm not saying we should trade Boogie for Jokic straight up either. That would be silly. Denver has a ton of assets that we could get back in a trade. They have 3 bigger contracts they could send us in Gallo, Faried, and Chandler. They also have some other promising young vets like Will Barton and Joffrey Lauvergne. Then they have the young prospects that the Kings could use, like rookie Jamal Murray, Petr Cornelie, Emmanuel Mudiay, or Gary Harris.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/denver-nuggets/yearly/cap/


They also own all of their own future 1st round picks, as well as Memphis' 2017 1st.


http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed


Ideally, in my opinion, the Kings could try to swing a deal to grab Jokic, one of their big contracts (either Gallo's essentially expiring deal, Faried, or Wilson Chandler), plus Jamal Murray. I would also be happy with Will Barton and/or Joffrey Lauvergne (who I think is going to be good) plus a 2019 1st round pick to make up for the one we're losing to Philly. We would then send them DeMarcus Cousins plus any combination of Ben McLemore, Kosta Koufos, Darren Collison, or whatever is necessary to make the deal happen.


There are plenty of assets there to make a deal happen. It wouldn't be anything close to simply Boogie for Jokic.


(Sorry I still haven't figured out how to hyperlink on this forum yet)

[Jkam31]

Cousins won't be traded why we talking bout this nonsense


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[c3j3h]

If we trade Gay I'd like to focus on the SG position. I think Casspi/Barnes can handle SF both good defenders and know there role. I'd trade Ben/Gay for Redick/2nd round pick. JJ fits perfectly spreading the floor and providing defense more importantly it improves our bench. Afflalo would be the scoring punch next to vets Temple/Casspi


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Why would they focus on trading Gay for a SG when they just signed Afflalo and Temple, and drafted Richardson? Plus we don't have any PG depth at all, Collison (not starter quality) is the best PG we have left, and will most likely be suspended for part of this upcoming season?

If they trade Gay for immediate help it has to be for a PG.

[Jkam31]

If we trade Gay I'd like to focus on the SG position. I think Casspi/Barnes can handle SF both good defenders and know there role. I'd trade Ben/Gay for Redick/2nd round pick. JJ fits perfectly spreading the floor and providing defense more importantly it improves our bench. Afflalo would be the scoring punch next to vets Temple/Casspi


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Why would they focus on trading Gay for a SG when they just signed Afflalo and Temple, and drafted Richardson? Plus we don't have any PG depth at all, Collison (not starter quality) is the best PG we have left, and will most likely be suspended for part of this upcoming season?

If they trade Gay for immediate help it has to be for a PG.

Cause Barnes/Casspi is a good rotation at sf. If we get JJ with Vollison we got 2 defenders on the backcourt in one of the best shooters I'm the league. More importantly Afflalo would be a very good 6th man with his scoring and post up. Add temple/Casspi and you have a good bench


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[c3j3h]

If we trade Gay I'd like to focus on the SG position. I think Casspi/Barnes can handle SF both good defenders and know there role. I'd trade Ben/Gay for Redick/2nd round pick. JJ fits perfectly spreading the floor and providing defense more importantly it improves our bench. Afflalo would be the scoring punch next to vets Temple/Casspi


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Why would they focus on trading Gay for a SG when they just signed Afflalo and Temple, and drafted Richardson? Plus we don't have any PG depth at all, Collison (not starter quality) is the best PG we have left, and will most likely be suspended for part of this upcoming season?

If they trade Gay for immediate help it has to be for a PG.

Cause Barnes/Casspi is a good rotation at sf. If we get JJ with Vollison we got 2 defenders on the backcourt in one of the best shooters I'm the league. More importantly Afflalo would be a very good 6th man with his scoring and post up. Add temple/Casspi and you have a good bench


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How does that fix the PG situation?

[longfellow44]

if you have listened to what coach joeger has said I don't think that there is any intention of finding a new starting point guard. Seems like they are happy with collison

[Silver Man]

Trading Cousins for a package with Jokic being the main piece is one of the most ridiculous Cousins trades ideas I have ever seen.

[blind prophet]

For now unless something real solid came up I'd like to keep Rudy.

Maybe we should call Atlanta and offer Ben for Thabo and see if they bite.

KK for just a backup PG behind Collison would probably be enough.

For depth, maybe we could see if Dre wouldn't mind to play one more year as the third PG, unless I Cousins shows something in summer league, if so he can have that spot.

[c3j3h]

Trading Cousins for a package with Jokic being the main piece is one of the most ridiculous Cousins trades ideas I have ever seen.

Why do you say that? The Nuggets might not even trade Jokic for Cousins straight up!