KD to GS - Pt III

[lars_rosenberg]

It's funny that an OKC fan is arguing that Green is better than Durant when Green had probably the worst series of his career against OKC. He was frustrated and harmful for the majority of games. He's a great player, but Ibaka and Adams exposed him.

Back to KD, I think he'll first offensive option. All starter should play less than 30 mpg and Curry/KD/Klay minutes will be scattered so that there's always at least two of them on the floor. Can you imagine KD going off against backup wings?
The regular season should be fucused on playing staters the less possible and be fresh for the playoffs. Chasing the Bulls record was counterproductive.

[fa2011]

So you believe that he is saying is 100% emotion free and he is being sensible and rational to suggest KD would be lucky to be the 3rd option on this Warrior team?

That isn't the question. The question is did your remark sound belittling and snarky. It did, at least to me.

Both things can be true. Bondom can be speaking from emotion, and your remark can be belittling and snarky.

There's no false choice here.

It's not a big deal to me, that's just what I felt when I read what you wrote. I say things on here that are belittling and snarky all the time. That's probably why I know it when I see it.

Of course Bondom is upset. I think we all understand that.

I would agree with you that Durant is more likely a 1A/1B option rather than #3. But we'll see. I understand what Bondom is saying as regards Green's role, too.

When you do lose a great player you tend to lash out and jump to the other side. When the Lakers traded Shaq it cut like a knife.

I hope it hurt really really really bad, too.

Signed hurt Orlando Magic fan

[LLcoleJ]

I hope it hurt really really really bad, too.

Signed hurt Orlando Magic fan

Thanks man. I was able to bandage myself together with his 3 trophies.

But seriously, Dwight.

[fa2011]

I hope it hurt really really really bad, too.

Signed hurt Orlando Magic fan

Thanks man. I was able to bandage myself together with his 3 trophies.

But seriously, Dwight.

Ouch. The 3 trophies hurt my soul

I'm glad you got Dwight. Dude's a mess. Stan Van Gundy was the best thing that ever happened to that guy. I certainly got over his departure a lot faster than Shaq. What did feel good about Howard is he didn't get to Brooklyn like he wanted and Kobe got in his a55 all season long.

[Litany]

And this isn't what OKC did either. Reggie just wasn't a coward.

The terrible Harden trade proved the OKC franchise to be very cheap. At the end of the day ownership had an absolutely stud of a player and chose to trade him away because they didn't want to pay fair value.

He got them Adams, and he didn't want to be there. And isn't relevant.

The franchise reset when they traded Harden and made similar changes moving Reggie Jackson then Ibaka.

It's easy to say hey we are okay and they're replaceable. But I have little doubt those things were considered. The Harden trade was a bad move. They made it to the finals and got cocky thinking it would be easy to replace that production. Years later...great...you got Steven Adams who provided value to Durant's last year instead of the 4-5 years before he left by keeping Harden there..

[bondom34]

The terrible Harden trade proved the OKC franchise to be very cheap. At the end of the day ownership had an absolutely stud of a player and chose to trade him away because they didn't want to pay fair value.

He got them Adams, and he didn't want to be there. And isn't relevant.

The franchise reset when they traded Harden and made similar changes moving Reggie Jackson then Ibaka.

It's easy to say hey we are okay and they're replaceable. But I have little doubt those things were considered. The Harden trade was a bad move. They made it to the finals and got cocky thinking it would be easy to replace that production. Years later...great...you got Steven Adams who provided value to Durant's last year instead of the 4-5 years before he left by keeping Harden there..

Their best season was the one right after Harden was traded.

That's not a reset. They were title favorites until Westbrook got Beverly'd.

[Litany]

So you believe that he is saying is 100% emotion free and he is being sensible and rational to suggest KD would be lucky to be the 3rd option on this Warrior team?

That isn't the question. The question is did your remark sound belittling and snarky. It did, at least to me.

Both things can be true. Bondom can be speaking from emotion, and your remark can be belittling and snarky.

There's no false choice here.

It's not a big deal to me, that's just what I felt when I read what you wrote. I say things on here that are belittling and snarky all the time. That's probably why I know it when I see it.

Of course Bondom is upset. I think we all understand that.

I would agree with you that Durant is more likely a 1A/1B option rather than #3. But we'll see. I understand what Bondom is saying as regards Green's role, too.

When you do lose a great player you tend to lash out and jump to the other side. When the Lakers traded Shaq it cut like a knife. I should have taken more time away, it did get better. Getting away certainly helps.

Now if we can all agree with that we are then stuck discussing how Dray and Durant suddenly leap frogged each other from the biggest OKC fan on this board.

Now, I am not a fan of either team, like at all. But to suggest that Durant is now a 3rd option I have to call BS on that. It's just not true.

I have read that Bondom would bet his account Durant wouldn't leave to the Warriors. I have seen him squash every notion that Durant would leave OKC all season. I have seen him lash out at posters talking about " Today is not a good day" when Durant made his decision. I have read a couple posts ago in this thread where he rants how much Durant changed in his eyes. So yeah, maybe he needs more time. Or he can continue to spin things. I am over it.

Sums it up

[Hero]

The terrible Harden trade proved the OKC franchise to be very cheap. At the end of the day ownership had an absolutely stud of a player and chose to trade him away because they didn't want to pay fair value.

He got them Adams, and he didn't want to be there. And isn't relevant.

The franchise reset when they traded Harden and made similar changes moving Reggie Jackson then Ibaka.

It's easy to say hey we are okay and they're replaceable. But I have little doubt those things were considered. The Harden trade was a bad move. They made it to the finals and got cocky thinking it would be easy to replace that production. Years later...great...you got Steven Adams who provided value to Durant's last year instead of the 4-5 years before he left by keeping Harden there..

I remember Bill Simmons saying the franchise had turned in something like 30 mil profit that year too. Not surprisingly they never made the finals again. Russ and KD might be great for the numbers as a duo but with Harden they could have been so much better.

[bondom34]

He got them Adams, and he didn't want to be there. And isn't relevant.

The franchise reset when they traded Harden and made similar changes moving Reggie Jackson then Ibaka.

It's easy to say hey we are okay and they're replaceable. But I have little doubt those things were considered. The Harden trade was a bad move. They made it to the finals and got cocky thinking it would be easy to replace that production. Years later...great...you got Steven Adams who provided value to Durant's last year instead of the 4-5 years before he left by keeping Harden there..

I remember Bill Simmons saying the franchise had turned in something like 30 mil profit that year too. Not surprisingly they never made the finals again. Russ and KD might be great for the numbers as a duo but with Harden they could have been so much better.

Except they were...the next year.

[te887848]

Durant didn't want to tarnish his legacy by remaining ringless in OKC and joining a list of "non-winners" like Barkley, Malone, Nash and Stockton. All were great players but ultimately never won anything relevant.

Why would you call it tarnished legacy? Barkley Malone Nash Stockton all current or future HOFers, MVPs, ranking near the top of multiple stats columns in the history of NBA. What's your definition of winning? If David West gets his ring with the Warriors this year, do you rank him higher than Jermaine O'Neal? Do you rank him higher than Malone/Barkley/Nash? Do you remember Tmac as a loser or one of the most talented and entertaining player to ever play the game? A two time MVP is not anything relevant??

To add: Yes, a 4 time scoring champ (5 time if Melo missed a couple of shots) is nothing relevant...

Yes but they aren’t as great as they would’ve been had they won titles. Champions > non-champions (losers). It’s not much more complicated than that.

Durant is a WINNER. He and Curry will vault themselves to the top 10 all-time after wrecking the league in a fashion that perhaps no team has done since the 90s Bulls or 60s Celtics.

[Litany]

I know that's a rhetorical question , but I'd at least like for them to "show their faces" so to speak. I mean hell, if they're that passionate about defending them and KD, you'd at least expect them to acknowledge them as their favorite team ...

I just don't understand people bashing KD for the reasons I've explained over and over.

Just looking at my teams situation...if Hayward leaves the Jazz next summer it will be because we didn't put enough talent around him and provide a place where we can advance and win. It will be our fault if he sees a better opportunity to win and he takes it.

I will be sad...for sure...but I won't feel the need to bash Hayward and call him a beta or clown on him for taking the "easy way out" when it's my teams fault we didn't get him help.

That's a big reason I'm happy with the what the Jazz have done this offseason and have done the past few years in drafting.

We have a legit team for next year and hope to see us in the 4-5 seed. If we get there I have hope that Hayward will stay. But if we do get to the 4th seed for example and Hayward sees a team that offers him a better chance to win than we do...THATS ON THE JAZZ ORG!!! We should have drafted better, traded better, and done better in FA to get him the right pieces if he decides to leave.

I don't understand why we have to keep telling you and others it's not about KD leaving, it's who he left for... You're entitled to your own opinions as others are, too. If you don't like it, that's fine, the majority outside of the Bay Area would disagree with you.

K. I call BS.

Reminds me of the way people constantly said "it's not that LeBron left...it was how he left"

So when a player leaves it's okay for him to leave as long as their teammates are less good than a certain threshold...noted.

So lets make a flow-chart for what players need to follow so that people don't bash them for leaving.
The grid will have information and decisions based on when they were bounced from the playoffs…who their teammates were…it will have information about their coach and GM and ownership…and it will have information about who the other teams are and their contract statuses…prior championships won…and then they can consult the flowchart and get to a decision about whether their move is okay and it isn’t a bitch move. Sound good?

**** that. Players should be able to look at a situation and say okay where can I have the best chance to win? Okay the Warriors provide that based on their talent, my fit with them, GM, Ownership, coach and they can offer me the same money and they are going to pay the tax to make this work in the long haul…hell yes.

Yes people are entitled to their opinion on the matter. Of course. But mine is that people are wrong to expect a player or any person to take a harder road than what is available otherwise they’re a bitch. That’s just smart. I actually kind of feel sorry for people who think it’s admirable to have two choices and they decide on a harder one. It’s illogical.

[te887848]

Durant followed in LeBron's footsteps, a current top 3 player of all-time, realizing that the way to win today and always was to form a superteam with other great players. He will be rewarded for this, and I for one am glad that a player as great as he is will end up with multiple titles. He's too great a player to retire without a trophy.

Lebron *created* a "super team", which could only be labeled as such because he joined them (and it really wasn't a super team, not when one guy leads you in scoring, rebounding and assists and is your best defender to boot). Durant hopped on to a super team. There is a clear distinction here that is unfathomably lost on many. It has to be willful ignorance, because I don't see how people can plainly miss the distinction otherwise

What Lebron did was far more ambitious than what Durant has done. Miami only had 2 players under contract entering that offseason and one was Joel Anthony. Miami was a notion, an empty plot of land. A team whipped up overnight out of thin air that would never be associated with the word "super" were it not for his presence. Golden State is a ready made juggernaut, a runaway train that Durant hitched a ride onto. You can't keep drawing these comparisons with a straight face

This argument has been made ad nauseam. Yes, we all know LeBron didn’t join a 73-win team and already proven champion. So what? He still joined the team that undoubtedly gave him the best possible chance to win many titles, and he made the correct decision teaming up with a then top 3 player and top 10 player in Bosh. And he was rewarded for his smart decision.

Durant joined the team that gave him the best chance to win many titles as well. He made the correct and smart decision to leave a vastly inferior OKC team that failed over and over again for the far superior Golden State team that is far better suited to his playing style and skillset. And he will be rewarded for it by winning many more rings than Westbrook and any of his OKC teammates ever will.

Every time an all-time legend joins a super team people cry about it for one reason or another. In 2010 people whined about how Jordan, Bird, Magic and other greats never orchestrated the formation of their own hand-picked superteam via free agency, they called it “weak” and “uncompetitive” and said his legacy would be ruined, etc etc. Now they’re complaining that a superstar has never joined a 73-win team that was already the best in the league before he got there.

5-10 years from now when the next big thing hits free agency and assembles the new dynasty in some way that’s never happened before, people will once again cry foul about how “at least Durant didn’t do such and such.”

Reality is Durant is a beast for making this move. His legacy is saved because picking Golden State means rings. He’s going to be co-leading the next dynasty and being a 1A/1B player in the process, likely racking up MVPs and Finals MVPs in the process. It was a brilliant decision by him.

[JulesWinnfield]

Durant is a "beast" for making this move? I think you spelled bitch wrong. Or autocorrect played a role. Even if you think he made a smart decision here, how exactly does it make him a beast? Please. He is now forever the poster boy for can't beat em join em. That phrase has his anorexic/bulimic face posted all over it for now and eternity. The most glaring example of it that anybody has ever seen...

And I'm calling bs on how in 5-10 years anyone will be saying "at least Durant didn't do this or that" when some other superstar makes a decision. Because it's virtually impossible to do something more weak sauce than this. He's never going to live it down no matter how many words you or other warrior fans/Durant backers furiously type. He is the embodiment of can't beat em join em, for now and forever. No number of rings change that.

[SF_Warriors]

It's funny that an OKC fan is arguing that Green is better than Durant when Green had probably the worst series of his career against OKC. He was frustrated and harmful for the majority of games. He's a great player, but Ibaka and Adams exposed him.

Back to KD, I think he'll first offensive option. All starter should play less than 30 mpg and Curry/KD/Klay minutes will be scattered so that there's always at least two of them on the floor. Can you imagine KD going off against backup wings?
The regular season should be fucused on playing staters the less possible and be fresh for the playoffs. Chasing the Bulls record was counterproductive.

Cant blame okc fans..The harden trade was devastating, especially after he blew up in hou.
I can only imagine how bad it would be losing a guy like KD and having it compound with the loss of JH.
Then theres the thing about them being contenders for all those years and last years heartbreaker.

I would be pretty upset and irrational about a lot of things. Not saying okc fans are, but I certainly would be. Very understandable

[te887848]

Durant is a "beast" for making this move? I think you spelled bitch wrong. Or autocorrect played a role. Even if you think he made a smart decision here, how exactly does it make him a beast? Please. He is now forever the poster boy for can't beat em join em. That phrase has his anorexic/bulimic face posted all over it for now and eternity

And I'm calling bs on how in 5-10 years anyone will be saying "at least Durant didn't do this or that" when some other superstar makes a decision. Because it's virtually impossible to do something more weak sauce than this. He's never going to live it down no matter how many words you or other warrior fans/Durant backers furiously type. He is the embodiment of can't beat em join em, for now and forever. No number of rings change that.

Yes, a “beast.” At the end of the day the all-time rankings are determined by:
1) Your individual dominance/stats
2) Your titles/playoff success.

Durant has already established himself as one of the greatest players of the modern era, an MVP, scoring champion etc etc. Now he’s got at least 3-5 rings to add to his resume, which will vault him undoubtedly to top 10 all-time status. Curry easily too. That would qualify as a “beast” quite easily.

People are simply mad that this team is too good, which I understand, but the reason they’re going to be so unfathomably dominant was because Durant joined them, which speaks to how dominant of a force he is.

July 4, 2016 was a glorious day for the NBA. Best decision a superstar has ever made.

[tyguy]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_Lj0bLVcGI[/youtube]

[fa2011]

I just don't understand people bashing KD for the reasons I've explained over and over.

Just looking at my teams situation...if Hayward leaves the Jazz next summer it will be because we didn't put enough talent around him and provide a place where we can advance and win. It will be our fault if he sees a better opportunity to win and he takes it.

I will be sad...for sure...but I won't feel the need to bash Hayward and call him a beta or clown on him for taking the "easy way out" when it's my teams fault we didn't get him help.

That's a big reason I'm happy with the what the Jazz have done this offseason and have done the past few years in drafting.

We have a legit team for next year and hope to see us in the 4-5 seed. If we get there I have hope that Hayward will stay. But if we do get to the 4th seed for example and Hayward sees a team that offers him a better chance to win than we do...THATS ON THE JAZZ ORG!!! We should have drafted better, traded better, and done better in FA to get him the right pieces if he decides to leave.

I don't understand why we have to keep telling you and others it's not about KD leaving, it's who he left for... You're entitled to your own opinions as others are, too. If you don't like it, that's fine, the majority outside of the Bay Area would disagree with you.

K. I call BS.

Reminds me of the way people constantly said "it's not that LeBron left...it was how he left"

So when a player leaves it's okay for him to leave as long as their teammates are less good than a certain threshold...noted.

So lets make a flow-chart for what players need to follow so that people don't bash them for leaving.
The grid will have information and decisions based on when they were bounced from the playoffs…who their teammates were…it will have information about their coach and GM and ownership…and it will have information about who the other teams are and their contract statuses…prior championships won…and then they can consult the flowchart and get to a decision about whether their move is okay and it isn’t a bitch move. Sound good?

**** that. Players should be able to look at a situation and say okay where can I have the best chance to win? Okay the Warriors provide that based on their talent, my fit with them, GM, Ownership, coach and they can offer me the same money and they are going to pay the tax to make this work in the long haul…hell yes.

Yes people are entitled to their opinion on the matter. Of course. But mine is that people are wrong to expect a player or any person to take a harder road than what is available otherwise they’re a bitch. That’s just smart. I actually kind of feel sorry for people who think it’s admirable to have two choices and they decide on a harder one. It’s illogical.

Cool story, bro, can you tell it again?

[JulesWinnfield]

Durant is a "beast" for making this move? I think you spelled bitch wrong. Or autocorrect played a role. Even if you think he made a smart decision here, how exactly does it make him a beast? Please. He is now forever the poster boy for can't beat em join em. That phrase has his anorexic/bulimic face posted all over it for now and eternity

And I'm calling bs on how in 5-10 years anyone will be saying "at least Durant didn't do this or that" when some other superstar makes a decision. Because it's virtually impossible to do something more weak sauce than this. He's never going to live it down no matter how many words you or other warrior fans/Durant backers furiously type. He is the embodiment of can't beat em join em, for now and forever. No number of rings change that.

Yes, a “beast.” At the end of the day the all-time rankings are determined by:
1) Your individual dominance/stats
2) Your titles/playoff success.

Durant has already established himself as one of the greatest players of the modern era, an MVP, scoring champion etc etc. Now he’s got at least 3-5 rings to add to his resume, which will vault him undoubtedly to top 10 all-time status. Curry easily too. That would qualify as a “beast” quite easily.

People are simply mad that this team is too good, which I understand, but the reason they’re going to be so unfathomably dominant was because Durant joined them, which speaks to how dominant of a force he is.

July 4, 2016 was a glorious day for the NBA. Best decision a superstar has ever made.

There's no way he's going down as a top 10 all time player, because he simply isn't one. Rings do a great deal to impact perception, but they absolutely aren't the end all, especially when you aren't even the best player on your team (and he's not). Just nonsense to assert that. Really just several steps too far. And he will never live down his can't beat em join em route. Ever. That's forever tied to him and impossible to divorce from any success Golden State has as it relates to his individual legacy. He hopped on to something that was already special without him.

[te887848]

Durant is a "beast" for making this move? I think you spelled bitch wrong. Or autocorrect played a role. Even if you think he made a smart decision here, how exactly does it make him a beast? Please. He is now forever the poster boy for can't beat em join em. That phrase has his anorexic/bulimic face posted all over it for now and eternity

And I'm calling bs on how in 5-10 years anyone will be saying "at least Durant didn't do this or that" when some other superstar makes a decision. Because it's virtually impossible to do something more weak sauce than this. He's never going to live it down no matter how many words you or other warrior fans/Durant backers furiously type. He is the embodiment of can't beat em join em, for now and forever. No number of rings change that.

Yes, a “beast.” At the end of the day the all-time rankings are determined by:
1) Your individual dominance/stats
2) Your titles/playoff success.

Durant has already established himself as one of the greatest players of the modern era, an MVP, scoring champion etc etc. Now he’s got at least 3-5 rings to add to his resume, which will vault him undoubtedly to top 10 all-time status. Curry easily too. That would qualify as a “beast” quite easily.

People are simply mad that this team is too good, which I understand, but the reason they’re going to be so unfathomably dominant was because Durant joined them, which speaks to how dominant of a force he is.

July 4, 2016 was a glorious day for the NBA. Best decision a superstar has ever made.

There's no way he's going down as a top 10 all time player, because he simply isn't one. Rings do a great deal to impact perception, but they absolutely aren't the end all, especially when you aren't even the best player on your team (and he's not). Just nonsense to assert that. Really just several steps too far. And he will never live down his can't beat em join em route. Ever. That's forever tied to him and impossible to divorce from any success Golden State has as it relates to his individual legacy.

Yes, he absolutely is headed for top 10 all-time along with Curry. Had he stuck with OKC he had no chance, but now it's a virtual lock considering how much he's going to win. He's likely to end up with at least 3-5 rings.

Rings are what separate the top 10 from everyone else. It's the reason why career losers like Malone, Nash and Barkley will never sniff that category. These guys were all MVP level players but the fact that they always lost keeps them out of the conversation of the true greats.

The "can't beat em, join em" thing doesn't matter at all. Doesn't factor into play when comparing career resumes at all.

Winning titles and having a #1 option type of impact is what really matters, and Durant will certainly be doing that by sharing the role of "top dog" with Curry.

[SF_Warriors]

Who cares where kd is gonna rank all time? We all know what kinda player he is..top 3 and mvp candidate