Summer League Notes

[Smitty731]

Hi all!

Not sure if you frequent any other boards, but I've been at Orlando Summer League all week. I have some notes on the Clippers to share. Nothing earth shattering, but maybe still interesting.

If you have a quesiton for me, please quote me so I have a chance to see it!

1. They were really bummed about Wilcox breaking his hand. They had hoped to get a really good look at him here in Orlando. They felt like he was finally turning the corner.

2. Diamond Stone looks very athletic and strong around the basket. He also looks like he's never played defense without fouling in his life.

3. Brice Johnson may play a big role as soon as this year. It all depends on how the rest of the roster shapes up.

4. Doc loves Greg Stiemsma, so don't be surprised to see him go to camp and ultimately make the team as the Aldrich replacement.

5. They almost blew it with Jamal Crawford. Their first offer was insultingly low and Crawford almost refused to talk to them again. Ultimately the number of years and the money won out over a HUGE ($19+ million) offer from Philly and a 1 year deal from GSW.

6. Crawford still isn't really happy and apparently isn't a big fan of either of the Rivers, but he is happy to be back with his boys CP3, Pierce, and DeAndre.

7. It seems like everyone doesn't have much love for Austin Rivers. They said he's nice enough, but there is a lot of resentment over his contract.

8. Also, the guys aren't biggest fans of Blake Griffin. They say he's a little aloof and the whole situation from last year still weighs heavy on some guys.

9. They said CP3 is the biggest a**hole they've ever played with. They also said there is no one else they would rather have at PG. One guy said "They all want to punch him in the face and all want to be the first guy to pick him up off the floor."

10. They said Ballmer is interesting. The quote was: "He's cool to have around. But he's around a lot."

11. They know they need some vets to round out the roster, but are afraid all the valuable guys will ring chase with Golden State.

12. It was 50-50 on if they want Pierce back or not. They love his leadership, but they feel like his oncourt production is probably done. There is a good chance Pierce wants to finish his career in Boston, especially if the Celtics are contenders and they will take him back.

13. The key guy they wanted back out of all their FAs? Luc Richard Mbah a Moute. They feel like his ability to defend 1-4 and his professionalism are important. They also said he told them to give the bigger money to the other guys and he'll be fine. Huge key to the locker room.

[nickhx2]

thanks a ton, smitty. i was actually following your thread about KD on the boston board. too bad it didn't work out lol

by they do you mean team personnel? coaches? or were you able to listen in on some of the players as well?

kinda sounds like the seeds are starting to be sown with some people being unhappy. austin better start proving his worth. i think in general there were murmurs of some uneasiness going around (mostly from bill simmons) previous to this, which i don't necessarily give credit to. but contract disparity is a real thing and blake's issues are also a thing to watch out for as well.

that note about luc is amazing. i was pretty worried he'd go after some kind of bigger payday and for a guy making the min. last year to sacrifice yet again will make him extremely popular. jamal crawford can fk off.

[Smitty731]

thanks a ton, smitty. i was actually following your thread about KD on the boston board. too bad it didn't work out lol

by they do you mean team personnel? coaches? or were you able to listen in on some of the players as well?

kinda sounds like the seeds are starting to be sown with some people being unhappy. austin better start proving his worth. i think in general there were murmurs of some uneasiness going around (mostly from bill simmons) previous to this, which i don't necessarily give credit to. but contract disparity is a real thing and blake's issues are also a thing to watch out for as well.

that note about luc is amazing. i was pretty worried he'd go after some kind of bigger payday and for a guy making the min. last year to sacrifice yet again will make him extremely popular. jamal crawford can fk off.

Coaches, players and front office guys. Basically anyone who would give me a couple of minutes!

[euphorbus]

Great stuff, Smitty! I will be following Brice Johnson this year to see how he does. When he was drafted, I predicted he would become a steady part of the rotation.

[nickhx2]

welcome.

i think a lot of clipper fans are expecting him to have a good sized impact on the team.

[euphorbus]

welcome.

i think a lot of clipper fans are expecting him to have a good sized impact on the team.

Thanks! The time difference will make watching games a bit tough, but I will be able catch quite a few.

[Wammy Giveaway]

Had to come back to RealGM just to ask these questions to Smitty:

1. Does Doc fear that if he trades just one of the Big 3 (Paul-Griffin-Jordan), it would mean an automatic rebuild and return to the loser-Clipper days? Does he make moves solely to keep Paul, Griffin and Jordan happy, retaining them in a Clipper uniform? Or is there a darker side to Doc that many of us don't know about, possibly a hidden agenda?

2. I've made posts and arguments on this forum about how Doc desperately needed Paul Pierce back to save his image as an elite coach. He has never made the conference finals without him, and he's had a pair of 3-1 collapses without him. By reuniting with The Truth, Doc thinks that a conference finals visit for the Clippers is all but ensured. Do you see any truth to Doc's attachment to Pierce in particular?

3. How much do you think love, friendship and family played a part in the Clipper's gradual decay from playoff contender to cellar dweller? Griffin and Jordan are close friends (or were, has this changed since the incident?), which may be the only reason why DeAndre came back during the Indecision. Doc goes after players who played for him before, guys who defeated him, and his own son. His front office guys consists of his closest friends such as Lawrence Frank, who is now the vice president. Would Doc rather lose with the personnel he loves than win with absolute power, such as if they had Kevin Durant to complete the Fantastic 4? As a matter of fact, did Doc ever object to the Big 3 concept that Danny Ainge cultivated in 2007?

4. Speaking of which, when Griffin was made available for trades during the incident, did Doc always had the Celtics in mind due to his relationship with Danny Ainge and for what he did in saving Austin's career two seasons ago? If he were to do future trades, would he always put the Celtics on top over other teams?

5. Without a D-League team in place, did the Clippers decide to double as a development team for the short term while Doc chases for a championship?

6. In your opinion, has the personalities of coach, general manager and father of Doc Rivers got in the way of the Clipper's chance at NBA relevancy? Have you heard any rumors about Doc being fired?

7. In my opinion, the Warriors became champions because the Clippers didn't take them seriously in the 2012-13 season. Granted this was under Vinny Del Negro's run, but by perceiving them as a lottery team instead of a professional team, they gave the Warriors so much confidence that I feared, had they met in the playoffs that season, the Clippers would have automatically been swept (hindsight: Dubs did make the 2nd round beating the Nuggets, followed by losing to the Spurs). Do the Clippers have a general problem in underestimating opponents, especially lottery teams to the point they become a playoff contender, or worse a future champion? Is the Warriors rise to dominance really the Clipper's fault?

[QRich3]

Thanks for this Smitty.

They almost blew it with Jamal Crawford. Their first offer was insultingly low and Crawford almost refused to talk to them again. Ultimately the number of years and the money won out over a HUGE ($19+ million) offer from Philly and a 1 year deal from GSW.

6. Crawford still isn't really happy and apparently isn't a big fan of either of the Rivers, but he is happy to be back with his boys CP3, Pierce, and DeAndre.

So, the way I read this (and other reports), is he was being his moody emo self playing the victim card and walking to the door threatening with leaving, but there was never any real chance he'd go away. I don't know what's gotta happen to get rid of this guy, I'd never though he'd get those kind of offers but even that was not enough.

I'll be glad to have Stiemsma as our back up C if better options (Bass, Zeller, Sims) end up not being realistic.

And yeah, from the little I've seen of summer league, Stone is a defensive black hole and Machineau a turnover machine, I don't think they're nearly ready to play minutes against real NBA players. Hopefully Brice's defense can be decent enough for him to get some playing time.

[Smitty731]

Had to come back to RealGM just to ask these questions to Smitty:

1. Does Doc fear that if he trades just one of the Big 3 (Paul-Griffin-Jordan), it would mean an automatic rebuild and return to the loser-Clipper days? Does he make moves solely to keep Paul, Griffin and Jordan happy, retaining them in a Clipper uniform? Or is there a darker side to Doc that many of us don't know about, possibly a hidden agenda?

2. I've made posts and arguments on this forum about how Doc desperately needed Paul Pierce back to save his image as an elite coach. He has never made the conference finals without him, and he's had a pair of 3-1 collapses without him. By reuniting with The Truth, Doc thinks that a conference finals visit for the Clippers is all but ensured. Do you see any truth to Doc's attachment to Pierce in particular?

3. How much do you think love, friendship and family played a part in the Clipper's gradual decay from playoff contender to cellar dweller? Griffin and Jordan are close friends (or were, has this changed since the incident?), which may be the only reason why DeAndre came back during the Indecision. Doc goes after players who played for him before, guys who defeated him, and his own son. His front office guys consists of his closest friends such as Lawrence Frank, who is now the vice president. Would Doc rather lose with the personnel he loves than win with absolute power, such as if they had Kevin Durant to complete the Fantastic 4? As a matter of fact, did Doc ever object to the Big 3 concept that Danny Ainge cultivated in 2007?

4. Speaking of which, when Griffin was made available for trades during the incident, did Doc always had the Celtics in mind due to his relationship with Danny Ainge and for what he did in saving Austin's career two seasons ago? If he were to do future trades, would he always put the Celtics on top over other teams?

5. Without a D-League team in place, did the Clippers decide to double as a development team for the short term while Doc chases for a championship?

6. In your opinion, has the personalities of coach, general manager and father of Doc Rivers got in the way of the Clipper's chance at NBA relevancy? Have you heard any rumors about Doc being fired?

7. In my opinion, the Warriors became champions because the Clippers didn't take them seriously in the 2012-13 season. Granted this was under Vinny Del Negro's run, but by perceiving them as a lottery team instead of a professional team, they gave the Warriors so much confidence that I feared, had they met in the playoffs that season, the Clippers would have automatically been swept (hindsight: Dubs did make the 2nd round beating the Nuggets, followed by losing to the Spurs). Do the Clippers have a general problem in underestimating opponents, especially lottery teams to the point they become a playoff contender, or worse a future champion? Is the Warriors rise to dominance really the Clipper's fault?

1. I have no sense of that. They repeatedly say they have no intention of trading any one of those guys. But there is certainly a lot of noise around Griffin.

2. I don't know if it is for the reasons you posted, but Doc love Pierce and vice versa. They went through a lot together in Boston and that sealed that bond forever.

3. Doc wants to win. I don't think he cares how they do it. And there are no regrets or objections. And Ainge wasn't the first to do it. Just the more recent vintage.

4. They won't trade Griffin to the Celtics for relationship reasons, any more than any other relationship. Relationships do drive deals in the NBA. But I don't think the Celtics would get any sort of discount or anything.

5. They want a D-League team and want one as soon as they can. Until then, they'll work the partnership angle with other teams like they did last year.

6. No rumors of Doc being fired. His players love him. His owner loves him. I don't think he's going anywhere. They did want to get him some help with the GM side of things, and are making moves in that direction.

7. I can't really answer that. You could be right, but I don't know.

[Smitty731]

Thanks for this Smitty.

They almost blew it with Jamal Crawford. Their first offer was insultingly low and Crawford almost refused to talk to them again. Ultimately the number of years and the money won out over a HUGE ($19+ million) offer from Philly and a 1 year deal from GSW.

6. Crawford still isn't really happy and apparently isn't a big fan of either of the Rivers, but he is happy to be back with his boys CP3, Pierce, and DeAndre.

So, the way I read this (and other reports), is he was being his moody emo self playing the victim card and walking to the door threatening with leaving, but there was never any real chance he'd go away. I don't know what's gotta happen to get rid of this guy, I'd never though he'd get those kind of offers but even that was not enough.

I'll be glad to have Stiemsma as our back up C if better options (Bass, Zeller, Sims) end up not being realistic.

And yeah, from the little I've seen of summer league, Stone is a defensive black hole and Machineau a turnover machine, I don't think they're nearly ready to play minutes against real NBA players. Hopefully Brice's defense can be decent enough for him to get some playing time.

Crawford leaving was very, very real. He was almost done. But the Clippers gave him a massive offer that he couldn't pass up.

[QRich3]

Crawford leaving was very, very real. He was almost done. But the Clippers gave him a massive offer that he couldn't pass up.

No, I get that people around the league and Clippers executives and stuff thought that. I'm just interpreting his own thinking. The offer wasn't that massive, compared to the reported 76ers one (even if that one was for less years). If he really was that fed up he'd just leave. He does have a tendency for craving praise and feeling unappreciated from offseasons past.

Anyway, take this with a grain of salt cause it's coming from a guy that's been hoping for Jamal leaving for 3 summers, and each one it seems closer to reality, but it never happens in the end.

Thanks for the info.

[UKClipperfan]

Hi all!

Not sure if you frequent any other boards, but I've been at Orlando Summer League all week. I have some notes on the Clippers to share. Nothing earth shattering, but maybe still interesting.

If you have a quesiton for me, please quote me so I have a chance to see it!

3. Brice Johnson may play a big role as soon as this year. It all depends on how the rest of the roster shapes up.

5. They almost blew it with Jamal Crawford. Their first offer was insultingly low and Crawford almost refused to talk to them again. Ultimately the number of years and the money won out over a HUGE ($19+ million) offer from Philly and a 1 year deal from GSW.

8. Also, the guys aren't biggest fans of Blake Griffin. They say he's a little aloof and the whole situation from last year still weighs heavy on some guys.

12. It was 50-50 on if they want Pierce back or not. They love his leadership, but they feel like his oncourt production is probably done. There is a good chance Pierce wants to finish his career in Boston, especially if the Celtics are contenders and they will take him back.

Thanks for sharing Smitty! I do have a few questions, if you don't mind.

3. If you were at summer league then what's your personal opinion on Brice? What's he good at? What do you like about him? We've had a hole at SF for years as everybody knows, so it would be great if he could step into that role, even if it is just off the bench. We haven't hit on our draft picks for years too, so hopefully we finally hit on one. That goes for Stone as well. We're actually worse at backup C than backup SF now, so the opportunity is there.

5. Apparently the players were on the verge of mutiny if Jamal wasn't paid with Austin getting his contract. Is there any truth to this? If there is, wouldn't that basically mean Doc no longer has GM powers? And wouldn't that basically mean there's no chance of him being traded? The reason I ask is because Jamal is on a 14M salary now and could be used to match larger salaries.

8. Who are 'the guys' in this instance? Some of the players? Team employees? The media? I assume the situation you are referring to is what happened in Toronto. Didn't happen all that long ago to be honest.

12. You're right Pierce might be done as far as on court production, but obviously has a special kind of value to Boston. Do any of their young players make sense in a trade? Do they have a TPE that Pierce can fit into? Think we could get our 1st back?

[Smitty731]

Hi all!

Not sure if you frequent any other boards, but I've been at Orlando Summer League all week. I have some notes on the Clippers to share. Nothing earth shattering, but maybe still interesting.

If you have a quesiton for me, please quote me so I have a chance to see it!

3. Brice Johnson may play a big role as soon as this year. It all depends on how the rest of the roster shapes up.

5. They almost blew it with Jamal Crawford. Their first offer was insultingly low and Crawford almost refused to talk to them again. Ultimately the number of years and the money won out over a HUGE ($19+ million) offer from Philly and a 1 year deal from GSW.

8. Also, the guys aren't biggest fans of Blake Griffin. They say he's a little aloof and the whole situation from last year still weighs heavy on some guys.

12. It was 50-50 on if they want Pierce back or not. They love his leadership, but they feel like his oncourt production is probably done. There is a good chance Pierce wants to finish his career in Boston, especially if the Celtics are contenders and they will take him back.

Thanks for sharing Smitty! I do have a few questions, if you don't mind.

3. If you were at summer league then what's your personal opinion on Brice? What's he good at? What do you like about him? We've had a hole at SF for years as everybody knows, so it would be great if he could step into that role, even if it is just off the bench. We haven't hit on our draft picks for years too, so hopefully we finally hit on one. That goes for Stone as well. We're actually worse at backup C than backup SF now, so the opportunity is there.

5. Apparently the players were on the verge of mutiny if Jamal wasn't paid with Austin getting his contract. Is there any truth to this? If there is, wouldn't that basically mean Doc no longer has GM powers? And wouldn't that basically mean there's no chance of him being traded? The reason I ask is because Jamal is on a 14M salary now and could be used to match larger salaries.

8. Who are 'the guys' in this instance? Some of the players? Team employees? The media? I assume the situation you are referring to is what happened in Toronto. Didn't happen all that long ago to be honest.

12. You're right Pierce might be done as far as on court production, but obviously has a special kind of value to Boston. Do any of their young players make sense in a trade? Do they have a TPE that Pierce can fit into? Think we could get our 1st back?

3. I haven't seen enough to have an informed opinion on Johnson yet. He's athletic. He works hard. Not sure how much of an impact he'll make this year.

5. The other players weren't real happy that Crawford might move on. They wanted to see him stay. They are all happy he's back. I don't know if mutiny is how I would put it necessarily, but there was some uneasiness there for sure. And now, it isn't a sign that Doc isn't the GM anymore.

8. Players, coaches, front office and media. And yes the fight is the situation.

12. The Celtics won't give anything of value just for sentimental reasons. Danny Ainge doesn't work like that.

[Smitty731]

One minor update from today, I had a chance to ask about Speights and the response was:

"We're very excited to have him. He'll play a big role for us. Well, he damn well better because he's the only big we have off the bench!"

I also asked what else they want to get before the summer ends and the response to that was:

"Probably another PG. Ideally, bringing back Prigioni. And at least one or two more bigs who have some experience."

[illastrate]

One minor update from today, I had a chance to ask about Speights and the response was:

"We're very excited to have him. He'll play a big role for us. Well, he damn well better because he's the only big we have off the bench!"

I also asked what else they want to get before the summer ends and the response to that was:

"Probably another PG. Ideally, bringing back Prigioni. And at least one or two more bigs who have some experience."

Thanks for the update. Not sure why they want Prigioni back, I liked him but he's 39 and there are still quality PG's out there.

[Smitty731]

One minor update from today, I had a chance to ask about Speights and the response was:

"We're very excited to have him. He'll play a big role for us. Well, he damn well better because he's the only big we have off the bench!"

I also asked what else they want to get before the summer ends and the response to that was:

"Probably another PG. Ideally, bringing back Prigioni. And at least one or two more bigs who have some experience."

Thanks for the update. Not sure why they want Prigioni back, I liked him but he's 39 and there are still quality PG's out there.

Doc didn't say it, but we all know he has a comfort level with certain guys. That seems to be it for the most part.