The 2016 Offseason Thread

[Djedefre]

Too much talent not to contend for the playoffs? Wait. Could you help me, please, because i’m having a hard time recognizing it. We could talk team’s potential and our excitement to watch the kids grow and improve, but this is western conference here guys. We may be loaded with potential, but turning it to a quality isn’t an overnight process. Name me the teams that you envision worse or with less PO chances in the west.

Bledsoe was having an allstar year before he got hurt.
Booker won't have as much attention when the defense has to worry about Bledsoe now.
Had EB not gotten hurt, there's a good chance we would have finished with the 11th-13th range (lottery)

Now, with more chemistry together, and adding vets like Dudley and Barbosa, we are going to compete more than every. It's very unlikely a healthy Suns team finishes bottom 5 this year.

First line - not so sure. 20pts with 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 3.5 turnovers, 45 FG%, 50% EFG and neutral net rating is not so exceptional
Second line - agreed absolutely
Third line - we were 12-19 when he went down, minus of 7 games. Not exactly on pace to be 7th/8th seed contender.
Forth line - don't get me wrong, i'm not scared of us being a bottom team in the west, quite the opposite, it's just that i can't see that instant quality as many here see, as it appears. What can Dudley and Barbosa really add, save for the mentorship and sinking open 3s?

[saintEscaton]

Some have selective amnesia when it comes to Bledsoe, he basically quit on the team the 5 games leading up to him going down and we benefited from an easy schedule that allowed us to start 7-5 before the wheels came off. Dame was the actual All-Star snub, Bledsoe played a third of the season and went out with a wimper

[Djedefre]

Some have selective amnesia when it comes to Bledsoe, he basically quit on the team the 5 games leading up to him going down and we benefited from an easy schedule that allowed us to start 7-5 before the wheels came off. Dame was the actual All-Star snub, Bledsoe barely played a third of the season

Yup. And even that being said, Bledsoe is our BEST player. For that reason i do not get these high expectations and willful blindness when it comes to actual quality of the team.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I think Barbosa was more a nostalgia feel good in a rough season move than a sign that a trade is coming. My guess is they chose him over price for that last guard spot.

[jcsunsfan]

I think Barbosa was more a nostalgia feel good in a rough season move than a sign that a trade is coming. My guess is they chose him over price for that last guard spot.

I think that is also because they want to develop Ulis as a pg in the price role. Leandro also makes trading Knight easy. They could take a good young player and a bad contract back in a multi-player deal.


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[carey]

Some have selective amnesia when it comes to Bledsoe, he basically quit on the team the 5 games leading up to him going down and we benefited from an easy schedule that allowed us to start 7-5 before the wheels came off. Dame was the actual All-Star snub, Bledsoe barely played a third of the season

He quit on the team? I don't recall thinking that or even seeing anyone say that. Is it because of the 2 stinkers he put up before the game he was hurt in? I'm genuinely curious and I'm not trying to get your goat.

[thamadkant]

I think Barbosa is brought in to be a positive impact to the youth.

I also believe Suns are still trading Knight... Because he does not want to be a bench player on a non contending team.

As I said 76ers are still needing a PG.

And now Westbrook is also attainable.

[saintEscaton]

Some have selective amnesia when it comes to Bledsoe, he basically quit on the team the 5 games leading up to him going down and we benefited from an easy schedule that allowed us to start 7-5 before the wheels came off. Dame was the actual All-Star snub, Bledsoe barely played a third of the season

He quit on the team? I don't recall thinking that or even seeing anyone say that. Is it because of the 2 stinkers he put up before the game he was hurt in? I'm genuinely curious and I'm not trying to get your goat.

Maybe I'm being too melodramatic, but man his body language was off putting. We were trailing the lowly Sixers by double digits the first half before he got sidelined, and he just seemed unengaged as if making strides on his offensive game allowed him to coast on the other end. The most impressive game I recall from him was the one where he sealed the win vs Raptors with a clutch chase down block, but for every one of those you have games like his chokejob against the Bucks. Maybe he ran out of juice or it was momentary slump dunno

[dremill24]

I think Barbosa was more a nostalgia feel good in a rough season move than a sign that a trade is coming. My guess is they chose him over price for that last guard spot.

I think that is also because they want to develop Ulis as a pg in the price role. Leandro also makes trading Knight easy. They could take a good young player and a bad contract back in a multi-player deal.


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If the focus is about the future, then Leandro does not affect dealing Knight. Leandro won't be around for that "future" anyway. You dont trade what you could argue is a young building block because you signed a guy in the twilight of his career when you're a rebuilding team.

[letsgosuns]

Idk why so many people are proposing wild trade scenarios. What is going on? Let's review the offseason.

The Suns draft Bender, Chriss, and Ulis. The moves are praised by the media and some proclaimed the Suns won the draft. Fans are excited and optimism about the franchise returns. A week later free agency starts and ridiculously bad contracts are handed out across the league. The Suns do not take part and instead sign Dudley to a reasonable contract. Two players that do not matter much to the Suns, Teletovich and Leuer, leave for other teams. Again fans are happy the Suns preserve cap space and do not give out any massive contracts.

Now for some reason I see people mentioning these crazy ideas. Let's trade Bender, Bledsoe, and picks for Westbrook. Let's dismantle the team for Cousins. Why didn't the Suns try to sign Wade. Stars attract stars. What the hell happened? Are some of you guys completely losing your minds? Outside of signing Durant, the Suns offseason draft picks and free agent acquisitions could not have been more successful. They needed young power forwards. They got them. They needed veteran presences to mentor the young players. They got them. This franchise is on the way up. Outside of championship contenders, I think there are probably several teams that would love to trade places with the Suns right now. Yet some of you want to tear it all down. And for what? Some joke of a quick fix that ruins the future of the team. I do not get it. Suddenly some people on here have become very impatient.

[JMac1]

Definitely not angry (love the signings of Dudley and LB) and I don't think it's ridiculous to think that 2nd group would probably outscore our first unit.

Not sure what crawled up your ass though. Sorry if sharing my opinion offended you.

Nothing had to crawl up my ass to disagree with you. Ridiculous means not serious and angry means you don't like the team so you will say something negative just to be express your frustration. Obviously something crawled up
your ass.


If you actually think those guys will beat the starters is your opinion, but that means I never have to seriously consider it going forward.

What if I said the Cleveland Browns are better than the Arizona Cardinals and meant it, then anything I say after that about football would not be respected, opinion or not, as if you didn't know. Then again maybe you don't.

JMac, I guess it means he is higher on Warren, Chriss, Bender and Len than you, and higher on Knight than most. A lot of people think Warren is better than Tucker and Chriss/Bender probably have more upside than Dudley, and Len could be better than Chandler this year. I mean, Tucker, Dudley and Chandler isn't a lights out front 3. You think Knight, Warren, Chriss, Bender and Len are as bad as the Cleveland Browns?

Ridiculous: deserving or inviting derision or mockery; absurd.

That is my opinion of Knight, Barbosa, Warren, Rookie and Len being better than Bledsoe Booker JD PJ and Chandler.

The Cleveland Browns did wins 3 games. They play in the NFL and they lost to the Denver Broncos in OT. I didn't compare the Cardinals to the Sun Devils, then you would have a point.

Saying or believing that the back ups are better than those starters is absurd IMO. And many times (probably most times) poster on this board are intentionally ridiculous because they are pissed, so to act as if I was tripping for saying a guy was angry or ridiculous for saying that the bench is better than our starters with a TBH included, is comical.

"Oh my god JMAC, how could you say/imply/ask that of a poster? They are always serious, never angry, and they are very insightful. Something must have crawled up your ass to think otherwise......."

Oh the shock of my retort.

[NavLDO]

Personally I'd love to see a team swing the from fences.

Make a Godfather offer for a Cousins (for example) and then trade for Westbrook.

You may be left with Westbrook and Cousins and 13 scrubs but you're also a 2017 FA like Griffin away from being the 3rd best team in the league.

That would fine and dandy if we got a promise from Westbrook he'd sign next season, if not, we could end up with Cousins and 14 Scrubs, which today is termed as the Sacramento Kings!

But seriously, I'd love to build via "home-grown"-talent through the draft. I'm a Steelers' fan, so I'm a big proponent of this type of team-building; the Steelers rarely spend big in FA (these last 2-3 years with Green and Mitchell being the exception, but even those were more 'middling-starter'-talent acquisitions.) But their stars--Ben, Brown, Bell, Heyward, Gilbert, DeCastro, and even Gay, were all drafted and developed; to me, that adds a bit to the 'love' for the team.

I'm also an Orioles fan, and can't stand how they've built their team; they've 'bought' their team, outside of Machado, Schoop, Wieters, and to a certain degree (acquired after only two years) Adam Jones. Davis, Trumbo, most of their pitchers, etc., were all bought, and to me, any team can 'buy' their success, but I personally like to see it built through the draft, with small additions to round out the team via FA/trade. So if we can develop Len, Warren, Booker, Goodwin, Chriss, Bender, Ulis, and have guys like Tucker, Dudley, and Barbosa, who spent the majority of their careers with us, is the way to go, with Bledsoe, Knight and Chandler being those 'rounding out the roster' types-to me, that's what endears me to this current team, and I think we have a GM and coaching staff, given the time, that an get that done.

[Moochthemonkey]

Thunder sure would be a curiosity, Lakers could be worse, for Nuggets i’m not so sure (they took 33 wins with few rookies, injured Gallo, added Murray...), but there is absolutely no way we are ahead of TWolves, Blazers, Grizzs, Jazz, Mavs, Kings, Rockets, even Pelicans if they could stay healthy. Our roster is full of potential and promise, but to expect to fight for extending the season is pretty bold, imo.

Oh no, I agree, I peg the Suns being below all those teams, IMO the bottom 6-16 potential seeding just seems less clearcut than it has the past few seasons albeit it's too premature to make such predictions.

Nuggets- good point, they outperformed last year despite injury circumstances and having a makeshift roster.
Twolves- they are obviously better on paper, but regardless of what their roster looks like, they have been finishing with poor records for the last decade.
Thunder- hinges on a potential Westbrook trade/rebuild
Blazers- they might have overachieved last season, like the '14 Suns, and may not capture lighting in a bottle twice
Grizzlies- still a good team obviously, much better than the Suns when healthy, but Memphis is old, lacks shooting, speed, and depth and perhaps is the most injury prone team in the West.
Mavs- they are an old, declining team as well. Got off to a hot start last year, but clearly came back to Earth over the course of the season and almost missed the playoffs.
Kings- they have one of if not the most talented centers in the league, but the culture around the team is cancerous, the FO is seemingly inept, and players outside Cousins are rather mediocre.
Jazz- obviously better on paper, have lots of good pieces. Like the Wolves though, they haven't proven anything yet.
Rockets- talented but dysfunctional group. I'm not sure how well D'Antoni will fit into their plans
Pelicans- Anthony Davis doesn't suitable complimentary players, nor does Gentry seem to be the right coach for the team. He'll probably get fired midway through the season and the team will underachieve for the second year in a row

I wouldn't be surprised if any of the above teams do or don't make the playoffs.

[NavLDO]

If that happens because Booker averages 17-18 pts a game and Bender, Chris, Ulis, Warren, Len, Bledsoe, and even Knight are the main reasons and not Barbosa, Dudley, Chandler and PJ, then who cares? There is nothing you can do about it and you should be happy.

At some point if the young talent is winning, that's a good thing. You can't have a good roster and still expect the #1 pick.

The problem would come if we were fighting for a playoff seed and they drastically reduced the young guys playing time to make that push.

Don't forget, we got two top ten picks this year.

-- yes, those of us that go beyond just the end result, of course, we'll be fine with it; it's the types that will come out of the woodwork saying we are "treadmilling" because, yet again, we miss the playoffs and have a 'treadmilling',late-lotto pick team like we've had 4 of the last 6 years, or something to that effect. It's THOSE posters I'm talking about...

I knew that. I was explaining why they shouldn't.

Sorry, I didn't catch that meaning in your post...

[SunsBlood23]

Honestly when I saw the Barbosa signing I didn't really think a Knight trade was coming as he seems to be well liked and for right now part of the future in the eyes of the front office. I however I do think that a Goodwin trade is possible.

[NavLDO]

Hmm more trades to come? Talks of Westbrook in the air.... Add yet another combo guard. Ucla ties. Love's roll questioned. The ever present DCousins future.

Is it time for a/THE McMully haymaker? He's been collecting assets for just such a moment

That must make quite a few of you nervous.

LOL...yes it does...you nailed it on the head. But out of those, and even though I don't see Love as a 'star' player he was a couple of years ago, I'd prefer it be him over Cousins or Westbrook--Cousins based upon potential for locker-room mayhem; Westbrook dues to his contract situation.

[Moochthemonkey]

Too much talent not to contend for the playoffs? Wait. Could you help me, please, because i’m having a hard time recognizing it. We could talk team’s potential and our excitement to watch the kids grow and improve, but this is western conference here guys. We may be loaded with potential, but turning it to a quality isn’t an overnight process. Name me the teams that you envision worse or with less PO chances in the west.

Bledsoe was having an allstar year before he got hurt.
Booker won't have as much attention when the defense has to worry about Bledsoe now.
Had EB not gotten hurt, there's a good chance we would have finished with the 11th-13th range (lottery)

Now, with more chemistry together, and adding vets like Dudley and Barbosa, we are going to compete more than every. It's very unlikely a healthy Suns team finishes bottom 5 this year.

And thats quite the shame

improving from last year would be shameful?

[NTB]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/751138355149086720[/tweet]

[Moochthemonkey]

That is my opinion of Knight, Barbosa, Warren, Rookie and Len being better than Bledsoe Booker JD PJ and Chandler.

well then, I'm guilty of having a ridiculous, angry opinion of Warren being better than both JD and PJ, probably Bender too, and Len being better than Chandler next year. That's 3 out 5 players on the bench that are better than the starters.

[saintEscaton]

Archie is gunna be a fire Euroleague player someday., dunno if he can get on Sonny Weem's level tho. Its only up from here