Ben Wallace Magic Question

Post #1 » by **JaxMagic** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 2:30 pm

Just came across an old Orlando game from 2000 and saw Big Ben running around and it made me think what could have been.

Does anyone here remember the details of the Orlando/Detroit trade that sent Hill here? I am trying to find information on that trade but there doesn't seem to be a lot out there. If I remember correctly, Detroit either wanted Wallace or Outlaw plus Chucky Atkins and management decided to keep Outlaw. Am I remembering that correctly?

Pretty crazy to think that what was considered a steal of trade could bite the Magic that hard. Assuming Orlando didn't trade Wallace that would have drastically changed the Magic's future. Assuming Wallace stillwould've became what he did, I doubt Orlando would've traded Mike Miller for Gooden/Giricek. I am certain a McGrady, Miller, and Wallace group could have done some damage in the East.

Anyways, can someone help me out with the exact details? Thanks.

Xatticus · Post #2 » by **Xatticus** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 2:36 pm

Wallace was a free agent. Gabriel was after bigger fish (Hill and Duncan) and Wallace simply wasn't a priority. Dumars targeted Wallace in free agency. After Wallace agreed to sign with Detroit, the two teams just worked out a SnT with each other.

Optimus_Steel · Post #3 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 2:44 pm

The franchise made a lot of poor decisions when Doc was coach. From giving away guys like Wallace to passing on guys like Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Jamal Tinsley in favor of Jerryl Sasser when they were desperate for a PG to choosing Steven Hunter over Brendan Haywood when we had their rights at the same time. Doc pushed for a lot of dumb moves so I am not surprised he sucks as a GM.

From my understanding, the Magic had a choice of either sending Detroit Ben Wallace or John Ameachi......guess what we did. We helped Detroit win a title.

BadMofoPimp · Post #4 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 2:52 pm

I thought the Pistons asked for Derek Strong or Michael Doleac and Magic insisted they take Ben Wallace as filler.

MagicStarwipe · Post #5 » by **MagicStarwipe** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 2:54 pm

Can you imagine this beast playing with a prime T-Mac?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdge7AfBQ4A[/youtube]

npiper17 · Post #6 » by **npiper17** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 2:56 pm

You're right in that Detroit wanted Chucky Atkins and one of Wallace or Outlaw.

John Gabriel (Magic GM at the time) wanted to keep Wallace and trade Outlaw but Doc (Magic coach at the time) preferred Bo over Ben. Doc won out so Ben went in the trade with Atkins.

Post #7 » by **SD2042** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 3:13 pm

npiper17 wrote:You're right in that Detroit wanted Chucky Atkins and one of Wallace or Outlaw.

John Gabriel (Magic GM at the time) wanted to keep Wallace and trade Outlaw but Doc (Magic coach at the time) preferred Bo over Ben. Doc won out so Ben went in the trade with Atkins.

Since that was the case, it explains why Doc's skills as a GM is a crapshoot at best.

drsd · Post #8 » by **drsd** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 6:27 pm

JaxMagic wrote:Anyways, can someone help me out with the exact details? Thanks.

Orlando max its FA space by trading Wallace. There is no McGrady with Wallace.

..

Post #9 » by **JaxMagic** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 6:35 pm

drsd wrote:
JaxMagic wrote:Anyways, can someone help me out with the exact details? Thanks.

Orlando max its FA space by trading Wallace. There is no McGrady with Wallace.

..

Even if Outlaw or Amaechi were sent out instead of him?

Orlwillbeback · Post #10 » by **Orlwillbeback** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 6:39 pm

we may have lost him then but now we are starting over with his twin brother Biyombo, 15 years later

drsd · Post #11 » by **drsd** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 6:41 pm

JaxMagic wrote:Even if Outlaw or Amaechi were sent out instead of him?

McGrady was the #2 man after Hill. One cannot re-write history as to why Wallace was moved.

Let's look at today as the same example. What if Oladipo emerges as a Wade-type player? Magic fans will cry "what if". But it is unfair. The Magic needed to ship off on of their SGs, and Oladipo was seen as a greater risk than Fournier.

..

Skin · Post #12 » by **Skin** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 8:54 pm

So nobody knows the full truth.... this thread is more entertaining than I thought it would be! ahahahahaha

when did we gift them Chauncey?

Post #13 » by **JaxMagic** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 9:51 pm

Skin wrote:So nobody knows the full truth.... this thread is more entertaining than I thought it would be! ahahahahaha

when did we gift them Chauncey?

Chauncey left here and went to Minnesota and that is where he started to emerge. After rejuvenating his career there he signed with Detroit and the rest is history.

Optimus_Steel · Post #14 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 10:43 pm

JaxMagic wrote:
Skin wrote:So nobody knows the full truth.... this thread is more entertaining than I thought it would be! ahahahahaha

when did we gift them Chauncey?

Chances left here and went to Minnesota and that is where he started to emerge. After rejuvenating his career there he signed with Detroit and the rest is history.

When we had him here he was just a throw-in in a trade to clear cap space for the FA signings. He was injured the whole time and I don't think ever played for us.

OrlDave · Post #15 » by **OrlDave** » Fri Jul 8, 2016 11:19 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:The franchise made a lot of poor decisions when Doc was coach. From giving away guys like Wallace to passing on guys like Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Jamal Tinsley in favor of Jerryl Sasser when they were desperate for a PG to choosing Steven Hunter over Brendan Haywood when we had their rights at the same time. Doc pushed for a lot of dumb moves so I am not surprised he sucks as a GM.

From my understanding, the Magic had a choice of either sending Detroit Ben Wallace or John Ameachi......guess what we did. We helped Detroit win a title.

If our scouting team at the time was anything like during the Otis era (ie nonexistent) then it's not really surprising we end up with Sasser and Hunter. God we spent so much time on Steven, the guy was just dumb as a brick.

Skin · Post #16 » by **Skin** » Sat Jul 9, 2016 1:38 am

Optimus_Steel wrote:
JaxMagic wrote:
Skin wrote:So nobody knows the full truth.... this thread is more entertaining than I thought it would be! ahahahahaha

when did we gift them Chauncey?

Chances left here and went to Minnesota and that is where he started to emerge. After rejuvenating his career there he signed with Detroit and the rest is history.

When we had him here he was just a throw-in in a trade to clear cap space for the FA signings. He was injured the whole time and I don't think ever played for us.

That whole period was the worst... some of my scrambled thoughts throughout it all.. Besides Wallace and Chauncey being here at one time and letting them go..

I'd be like "Yeah, we drafted Brendan Hayward"... "Damn, we traded Brendan Hayward"...

"Nice seeing Varejao with Lebron"... "He could've been with the Magic"...

"Wishing we had Kenyon Martin instead of Mike Miller..." "but at least he won ROY!" ...."ugh wishing that draft wasn't the worst in history."

"WE HAVE A TRADE SET UP TO LAND AMARE!!!!!!" "Damn, didn't work." "Welcome to ORL, Ryan Humphries."

"Who is Jerryl Sasser?"

"We got the guy who opened eyes at the Chicago predraft camp!" "Who?" ... Stephen Hunter.... Who?"

"Reece gains is our savior!"

"Goran Giricek can be the next Ginobili!"

"Damn you Grant Hill you (*@&#$(*#@&$(@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"Poor T-Mac"

"The nickname of our GM is Puck?" ... "Puckin' a..."

KingRobb02 · Post #17 » by **KingRobb02** » Sat Jul 9, 2016 2:19 am

npiper17 wrote:You're right in that Detroit wanted Chucky Atkins and one of Wallace or Outlaw.

John Gabriel (Magic GM at the time) wanted to keep Wallace and trade Outlaw but Doc (Magic coach at the time) preferred Bo over Ben. Doc won out so Ben went in the trade with Atkins.

It was Wallace or Amaechi and Doc wanted to keep the guy who was better on offesse.

Optimus_Steel · Post #18 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Sat Jul 9, 2016 2:24 am

Skin wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
JaxMagic wrote:
Chances left here and went to Minnesota and that is where he started to emerge. After rejuvenating his career there he signed with Detroit and the rest is history.

When we had him here he was just a throw-in in a trade to clear cap space for the FA signings. He was injured the whole time and I don't think ever played for us.

That whole period was the worst... some of my scrambled thoughts throughout it all.. Besides Wallace and Chauncey being here at one time and letting them go..

I'd be like "Yeah, we drafted Brendan Hayward"... "Damn, we traded Brendan Hayward"...

"Nice seeing Varejao with Lebron"... "He could've been with the Magic"...

"Wishing we had Kenyon Martin instead of Mike Miller..." "but at least he won ROY!" ...."ugh wishing that draft wasn't the worst in history."

"WE HAVE A TRADE SET UP TO LAND AMARE!!!!!!" "Damn, didn't work." "Welcome to ORL, Ryan Humphries."

"Who is Jerryl Sasser?"

"We got the guy who opened eyes at the Chicago predraft camp!" "Who?" ... Stephen Hunter.... Who?"

"Reece gains is our savior!"

"Goran Giricek can be the next Ginobili!"

"Damn you Grant Hill you (*@&#$(*#@&$(@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"Poor T-Mac"

"The nickname of our GM is Puck?" ... "Puckin' a..."

This wont make you feel better, but we had the draft pick that became Amare due to the Penny trade, and we traded it back Phx to get rid of Bo Outlaw's contract. Yea.....we had major F ups.

Optimus_Steel · Post #19 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Sat Jul 9, 2016 2:32 am

OrlDave wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:The franchise made a lot of poor decisions when Doc was coach. From giving away guys like Wallace to passing on guys like Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Jamal Tinsley in favor of Jerryl Sasser when they were desperate for a PG to choosing Steven Hunter over Brendan Haywood when we had their rights at the same time. Doc pushed for a lot of dumb moves so I am not surprised he sucks as a GM.

From my understanding, the Magic had a choice of either sending Detroit Ben Wallace or John Ameachi......guess what we did. We helped Detroit win a title.

If our scouting team at the time was anything like during the Otis era (ie nonexistent) then it's not really surprising we end up with Sasser and Hunter. God we spent so much time on Steven, the guy was just dumb as a brick.

The Magic were looking at Tony Parker strongly, he was the best PG prospect in the draft and we had a major hole there. But Doc was enamored with the tall PG experiment he wanted to try. He always wanted to have a PG that was like 6'6 and he pushed hard for Sasser even though he had poor PG skills and was not quick athletic. Same reason they drafted Reece Gaines to try Doc's tall PG experiment again.

Hunter was chosen over Haywood because he was more athletic but damm it was obvious he was dumb as rocks and no instincts for bball.

I'll never understand why we left Verajao go, he was obviously a major find in the 2nd round, everyone know it, there was no need for that. Same with Zaza, we left him unprotected in the expansion draft for an unknown reason.

Despite the Grant Hill disaster, we had chances to make up for it by making good draft picks and give Tmac some legit help but we blew them, almost all of them.

Nemesis21 · Post #20 » by **Nemesis21** » Sat Jul 9, 2016 2:46 am

Skin wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
JaxMagic wrote:
Chances left here and went to Minnesota and that is where he started to emerge. After rejuvenating his career there he signed with Detroit and the rest is history.

When we had him here he was just a throw-in in a trade to clear cap space for the FA signings. He was injured the whole time and I don't think ever played for us.

That whole period was the worst... some of my scrambled thoughts throughout it all.. Besides Wallace and Chauncey being here at one time and letting them go..

I'd be like "Yeah, we drafted Brendan Hayward"... "Damn, we traded Brendan Hayward"...

"Nice seeing Varejao with Lebron"... "He could've been with the Magic"...

"Wishing we had Kenyon Martin instead of Mike Miller..." "but at least he won ROY!" ...."ugh wishing that draft wasn't the worst in history."

"WE HAVE A TRADE SET UP TO LAND AMARE!!!!!!" "Damn, didn't work." "Welcome to ORL, Ryan Humphries."

"Who is Jerryl Sasser?"

"We got the guy who opened eyes at the Chicago predraft camp!" "Who?" ... Stephen Hunter.... Who?"

"Reece gains is our savior!"

"Goran Giricek can be the next Ginobili!"

"Damn you Grant Hill you (*@&#$(*#@&$(@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"Poor T-Mac"

"The nickname of our GM is Puck?" ... "Puckin' a..."

Martin was the 1st overall pick and Miller the 5th, so we would have had to move up to get Martin.