The Flip Side of Depth

[ElectricMayhem]

Our front office has done a tremendous job of turning us into of of the deepest teams in the league. From the team's perspective, it is incredibly beneficial to have highly talented players you can plug in to make sure everyone is amply rested and to stave off any negative impact of injuries. However, from a player's perspective it can be a hit to your pride when you are not playing as much as you feel you deserve to and you can feel your value dropping when you're not getting the chance to show your game on a regular basis. I think Bower and SVG have done a great job bringing in high-character players who will place winning above all else, but it is also an inescapable fact that this could become an issue - especially if we don't win as much as we ought to and some players think they could to more to remedy that. These are the biggest threats, in my opinion, to low minutes bringing low morale. Again, I'm not predicting it will happen, but recognizing it could:

1. Aaron Baynes: After a slow start in his inaugural season as a Piston, he really came through as perhaps our most invaluable guy off the bench. He was our solution to Hack-a-Drum and he was incredibly solid. His thanks? We had a giant follow him in from SA to split minutes with him and can further cut into his minutes with small-ball now that we have Leuer. Barring a trade, he is apt to see fewer minutes despite a strong campaign.

2. Stanley Johnson: Stanimal went public with a complaint of SVG giving him too quick of a hook when he struggled down the stretch last year. After his injury, Stanley depended a little more on Bullock and Hilliard than Johnson would have liked. He's confident. He's brash. Will he expect a starting gig sooner rather than later?

3. Marcus Morris: And just what IF Stanley gets the starting job? That means that a guy who was top 5 in minutes in the NBA last year gets consigned to the bench. Marcus has been great for us but a drop in minutes coupled with a paycheck incommensurate to his abilities may leave him with some frustration.

4. Boban Marjanovich: Yes, he signed here knowing the situation, so that should mitigate any potential problems. Still, I don't think he is coming here with the expectation of getting 5-10 minutes per game. Unless there is a trade, he hops Baynes on the depth chart, or he shows off some flashy point guard skills, he could become frustrated waiting his turn in that center rotation.

5. Henry Ellenson: He is young and he is raw but most rookies who were projected for the lottery will at least get the chance to get minutes and make lots of mistakes on the reserves unit. If Ellenson wants any meaningful playing time, I fear it will have to be for Grand Rapids. Could that bother him knowing he is better than many of his rookie peers who are getting meaningful minutes on their pro teams? Tobias, Morris, and Leuer will be eating up most of the minutes at PF. Ellenson is getting paid to have front row season tickets this year.

Depth is a great thing and it is much much MUCH better to have too much than too little. I love what we have done this offseason but it is certainly worth keeping tabs on this dynamic.

[Spider156]

These aren't bad problems to have...

Here's the truth. If Stanley wants respect, shut your mouth! As much as I loved his trash talk, he's clearly a little kid. He needs to produce like he's actually good. He shows flashes of an offensive arsenal that could take over the game but he makes simple stupid mistakes that you can't just shake your head at and tell him it's alright. Make your shots! Prove yourself and he was just a rookie so we'll see what happens.

Baynes is most definitely going to play with Leuer at PF, if Tolliver got time I'm pretty sure Leuer will get his time at PF. We don't play small ball, we play 4-1 and it works. That means Baynes is the man in the center with the second unit. Boban? He's an assurance and will likely play when minor injuries happen or whatever. He doesn't care to play when he just got a brand new contract, he'll be fine for a year or two.

Henry will most likely start at PF in 2-3 years. What does that mean? Means there's a pretty good chance Harris and Morris might NOT be on this team in 3 years anymore. If Henry and Stanley are going to start, those two will probably head out the door unless we pick up one of them as the 3rd forward. It's why it's so hard to put together a contender through depth and not superstars. But you gotta take your chances with some of these guys, they're all young. Imagine if Henry patents that Dirk shot, it'd be game over.

This is how you make a successful organization though. Long are gone the days of playing our rookies right away. Now it's all about execution and putting together a rotation that produces the best way. Yes development is great for our young guys, but they're all young and they'll get their chances. Things happen that aren't part of anyone's control. These aren't bad problems to have. They're great to have actually.

[vic]

The flipside of depth is also what the Warriors just did. Strength in numbers. Let the cream rise to the top, build a great culture, and maybe get a superstar out of it. Pistons may not ever get a big 4 but they could end up with the best 5 alive again.

[vic]

The Celtics were only one year ahead of us in this process, and they ended up with Horford. Possibilities are endless.

[fpower]

Too many good players? Not enough minutes to go around? Great problem to have.

[ImHeisenberg]

I feel like Baynes is getting over rated in OP's comment. Solid was his best. He was regularly killed on defense, due to his slow feet. With Leuer and Boban, SVG has a platoon of big men he can optimize to take advantage of whatever the opponent is throwing at us. Now, team's can't really get a huge advantage by going big or going small.

As for the rest of it, the best responses have already been posted. They're good problems to have.

[russkopp]

I think the depth is a great "problem" to have. So far, we haven't seen a personality that screams "I need mine!" on this team. As far as Baynes goes, he was and will be solid but SVG had to protect himself against him leaving and small match ups. We've paid him $12 million dollars. He'll be fine.

As far as guys like Marcus and Stanley getting mad about minutes. Good. That's how it should be. Each guy should want to be out there as much as possible. Whoever comes of the bench will still get many minutes on the court.

[hoophabit]

I suppose there's some possibility for all this, but winning is the salve that soothes most of these problems. Players like to win, and winning teams are usually able to find minutes for bench players.

Stanley Johnson is extremely aggressive and competitive. These are qualities that will serve him well in the long run, even though he needs to corral it a bit. Pistons love him and I'd be surprised if he doesn't see at least as many minutes as he saw last year. Word is he has worked extremely hard on skill development and is even stronger than he was last year.

Heisenberg's point is well taken. SVG can match up better with other coaches changes, and players that can't see the need for this probably aren't his kind of players anyway.

[Pharaoh]

Dre 30, Baynes/Boban 18

Harris 24, JL 24

Mook 30, SJ 12, Harris 6

KCP 30, SJ 18

RJ 30, Ish 18

6 guys playing 30 minutes
1 guy getting half the game
1 guy getting a quarter & a half

Depth is a problem? How?

King Henry, Bullock & Hilliard only play if there's an injury...

Boban/Baynes split minutes based on match up and game situations

The drama will be working out a substitution pattern that gives our top 8 most of the minutes!

[BIG BEN'S FRO]

I don't think that how it will play Pharoah. I expect Bullock or Hilliard to notch those minutes at SG. I think Leur will be much closer to 15 or 18 than 24. Hopefully that finds a place for SJ to get his minutes.

Most likely someone will get injured and all this will be moot.

[fpower]

These are qualities that will serve him well in the long run, even though he needs to corral it a bit.

I've heard this sentiment multiple times from different posters. Never chimed in before, but just for the record, I don't think Stanley has to tone down anything at this point. I can't recall a single comment he's made that made me cringe; I like everything he's said so far. He's extremely confident and outspoken for a 19 year old, but I'm not detecting any sort of "me first" or detrimental attitude in the comments he's made. He's just willing to speak his mind, and is ultra competitive.

[Chillymo]

I'm interested in seeing this lineup
Ish-Hilliard-morris-Harris-leuer
Or
Reggie-kcp-SJ-leuer-Drummond

Just think we have a lot of options and versatility

[mercury]

The "winning" rotations will determine the PT distribution... Expecting to see a lot of different combination experiments initially.
The first sign of dissension or a player not fitting in they will be dealt... The beauty of having movable contracts.

[Alexander]

Put me in the "this is a good problem to have" camp.
Some players can be upset that they were born a couple years too early and missed the opportunity to get paid while they were in or near their prime, but this team as constructed doesn't lend well to individual greed or being disgruntled.
Stan said in the pressers for Ish and Leuer that the team is four deep at every position (I think we can agree that PG is an exception). If Morris is unhappy with his minutes or touches, there's Johnson breathing down his neck. If Baynes doesn't like his playing time, Boban or Ellenson will happily take it, or Leuer can just absorb them all.
When minutes are scarce, they count more. Practices will be tougher. Standards will be higher. More wins will ensue. and, as they say, winning cures everything.

[epheisey]

I think the redundancies that SVG has sought out and acquired will end up causing more problems than solutions. He's going to tinker with lineups a ton because there are so many options, and I have a feeling it will become detrimental to the team's success.

We have 3 starter quality SFs who can't all get 30 minutes a game at their most useful position. And while Harris at PF might work over the course of the regular season, it was a huge failure in the playoffs where most teams have a bigger bodied PF that he will have to match up with. The pursuit of Horford was an admission of this problem. If we end up relying on Leuer come playoffs, and we somehow have to split SF minutes between Stanley, Morris and Harris, the team suffers by leaving 2 of our best 6 players on the bench for significant periods of time.

I know a lot of people applaud SVG for how quickly he was able to acquire new, valuable assets, and turn this team upside down. But I think he went too fast, accumulating players that were too good to pass up, even if their fit wasn't ideal. Morris and Harris were both solid pick ups, in large part because of their friendly cap hits. But then he went and signed Leuer for 10m/yr. That really hampers our ability to move one of them for a starting PF. Their cap numbers prevents us from acquiring any starting caliber PF, seeing as the ones that match up $-wise either won't be dealt since they're on such a good deal, or they're just glorified bench players. Unless we come across a team with the same issue at PF as we have at SF, we're stuck.

Best case scenario IMO is that with the addition of Boban, SVG packages Baynes and Harris for a starting PF.

[chrbal]

We've got a bunch of good character guys. And Aron is honestly playing for a contract/raise next year. This is a nice problem to have.

The Heat, the Heat have a problem. They pissed off Wade, who is friends with LeBron, who seems to know everyone in the NBA personally. Oh, also LeBron had to have a real reason we don't know to leave MIami other then to come back to Cleveland. Good luck in free agency Miami. Sorry, Hassan. But congrats on your payday.

Haslem, James Johnson, Wayne Ellington, Derrick Williams and backing up a truck to Tyler Johnson. Who has good numbers but has only played 68 games in two seasons. When did the nba go to 45 game seasons? I must have missed that.

[In SVG We Trust]

Put me in the "this is a good problem to have" camp.
Some players can be upset that they were born a couple years too early and missed the opportunity to get paid while they were in or near their prime, but this team as constructed doesn't lend well to individual greed or being disgruntled.
Stan said in the pressers for Ish and Leuer that the team is four deep at every position (I think we can agree that PG is an exception). If Morris is unhappy with his minutes or touches, there's Johnson breathing down his neck. If Baynes doesn't like his playing time, Boban or Ellenson will happily take it, or Leuer can just absorb them all.
When minutes are scarce, they count more. Practices will be tougher. Standards will be higher. More wins will ensue. and, as they say, winning cures everything.

I'm 100% agree with you man

[bballnmike]

I think/hope our guys won't have a problem. Overall I think I'd rank Stanley/Marcus ahead of Baynes. Seems more likely they'll be competing for a larger chunk of minutes

[Laimbeer]

Any chance Boban gets paired with Dre or Baynes for limited periods?

[Warspite]

The practices will be more productive sparking that internal growth we are counting on.

We have more trade assets to bring in that missing piece.

We can survive injuries better.

We don't have to play the starters and burn them out like we did last yr.

We might be able to sustain or maybe build a lead with bench players.

We might have a few 4th qtr blow outs creating more garbage time.


Yeah that sucks....