'15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread

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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#61 » by yoyoboy » Sat Jul 9, 2016 7:02 am

Reservoirdawgs wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:The fact of the matter is Kyrie outplayed the league mvp and it was a guy who played the same position at that. No other number 2 guy on a team did that.


All of that is irrelevant. Kyrie's awful defense was the reason that the Cavs were down the first two games (and he didn't even shoot as well as Curry throughout the Finals). Kyrie's missed games AND net negative impact when he was on the court due to his horrendous defense clearly has him nowhere near the top 5.

To your point though, Scottie Pippen outplayed Karl Malone in the 1997 Finals. He beat him out on TS%, eFG%, ORtg, and had superior defense.

No...it really wasn't... Kyrie's defense was solid and pretty consistent throughout the entire Finals. He and the rest of the team just shot like crap for the most part in the first 2 games, and the Warriors' role players couldn't miss. Also, the Cavs at that point hadn't fully embraced the switch on everything defense.

Saying Kyrie's defense was the reason they were down 2-0, especially when his matchup, Curry, didn't play particularly well, is just ridiculous.
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#62 » by therealbig3 » Sat Jul 9, 2016 5:54 pm

POY

1. LeBron James
2. Draymond Green
3. Stephen Curry
4. Kevin Durant
5. Russell Westbrook

Only reason Curry drops for me is because of the missed games. Curry would have needed an outstanding playoffs to compensate, and that obviously didn't happen. Green had a strong case for #1 imo, but between the missed Finals game (and he really should have been suspended earlier) and the poor showing against OKC, he doesn't have a case against LeBron imo.

But it's kind of surprising to see people totally dismiss the best +/- player of the year, who also played the most minutes out of anyone on a 73 win team, and was also their best player in the playoffs, and was always a constant presence in all of their best lineups. Just because he doesn't score 20 ppg doesn't mean he's not a ridiculously good player and isn't worthy of being ranked that high. He's clearly better than Kawhi imo, mainly because of his defense.

I do think Westbrook tends to get a bit overrated though, and I think both him and Durant struggled quite a bit offensively in these playoffs. But Durant's defense was excellent, while Westbrook's was awful.


OPOY

1. Stephen Curry
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Chris Paul


DPOY

1. Draymond Green
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. LeBron James


ROY

1. Kristaps Porzingis
2. Karl Anthony Towns
3. Nikola Jokic

Yeah, I feel like the Porzingis arguments have been far more convincing than the ones for KAT. I mean, again, we see this obsession with a volume scoring big man, even though his supporters even admit that he's got some problems on defense. Porzingis's defense is better, and he provides better spacing on offense than KAT too.


MIP

1. CJ McCollum
2. Steven Adams
3. Jae Crowder


6MOY

1. Andre Iguodala
2. Tristan Thompson
3. Will Barton


COY

1. Brad Stevens
2. Rick Carlisle
3. Steve Clifford

Yeah, I wasn't that impressed with either Kerr or Pop this season. Kerr coached the Warriors to a worse record than Walton, and he was disappointing imo in the playoffs. Pop once again with a playoff choke.


EOY

1. Danny Ainge
2. RC Buford
3. Rich Cho
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#63 » by ceiling raiser » Sat Jul 9, 2016 6:57 pm

Remaining Ballots (from Doc's list):

Clyde Frazier
Dr Spaceman
E-Balla
Hawk Eye
JLei
kayess
mischievous
Mister Hibachi
NyCeEvO
PaulieWai
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#64 » by Doctor MJ » Sat Jul 9, 2016 7:27 pm

Yeah, looking to count'em up later today. If people really need more time, they should say something.
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#65 » by eminence » Sat Jul 9, 2016 8:32 pm

Will be getting mine up in just a bit. Will edit this post.

edit:

POY: Knocked CP3 out due to playoff injury, and have got a bit down on Westbrook as I've looked back.
1. Lebron - Monstrous playoff run, and had huge impact all season long. Kicked it into high gear towards the end of the RS.
2. Draymond - Best player on the Warriors over their playoff run. Excellent in the regular season, DPOY level defense with a hugely positive offensive skill-set.
3. Curry - Clear #1 through the regular season. Playoff injury and subsequent fall-off knock him down (I'm one of the opinion that the injury hampered his playoff levels and I look forward to a return to form next season).
4. Kawhi - Led the Spurs as their best offensive and defensive player. Eliminated fairly early in the playoffs, but I thought he played well and it was in a close series against a worthy opponent.
5. Durant - Wavered between he and Westbrook, eventually decided to go with Durant as he looks better in the impact data(RAPM) and I really loved his defense in the playoffs.

OPOY:
1. Curry
2. CP3 - give him some love despite the injury.
3. Lebron

DPOY:
1. Draymond
2. Kawhi
3. Lebron - Millsap very very close.

ROY:
1. KAT
2. Jokic
3. Porzingis
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#66 » by RSCD3_ » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:16 am

fpliii wrote:Remaining Ballots (from Doc's list):

Clyde Frazier
Dr Spaceman
E-Balla
Hawk Eye
JLei
kayess
mischievous
Mister Hibachi
NyCeEvO
PaulieWai
Texas Chuck


Can someone quote them?
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#67 » by JordansBulls » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:21 am

I'm surprised people are putting Draymond 2nd when he pretty much cost the Warriors the title for getting suspended in game 5.
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Re: Re: Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#68 » by RSCD3_ » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:36 am

Remaining Ballots (from Doc's list):

Clyde Frazier wrote:L

Dr Spaceman wrote:A

E-Balla wrote:S

Hawk Eye wrote:T

JLei wrote:C

kayess wrote:H

mischievous wrote:A

MisterHibachi wrote:N

NyCeEvO wrote:C

PaulieWal wrote:E

Texas Chuck wrote:S


A lot of people were all involved in year long discussion and we arent requiring a ton of explanation if any at all, based on the results so far so It would be better if they could vote.

I'd suggest maybe we could delay this one more night.
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#69 » by MisterHibachi » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:39 am

I won't be able to get to it until tmrw. Looks like it'll be counted tonight, so I'll pull out from the voting list. Apologies, Doc.
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#70 » by lorak » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:56 am

JordansBulls wrote:I'm surprised people are putting Draymond 2nd when he pretty much cost the Warriors the title for getting suspended in game 5.


That was one of the reasons why they lost, but not the only one. And Curry deserves more blame for the finals than Green. Besides one game shouldn't erase everything what player did through 8 months.
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#71 » by kayess » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:29 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:I won't be able to get to it until tmrw. Looks like it'll be counted tonight, so I'll pull out from the voting list. Apologies, Doc.


Exactly the same reason.

Apologies as well.
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#72 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:33 pm

If not too late....

POY:
1. Lebron
2. Curry
3. Westbrook
4. Leonard
5. Paul


OPOY:
1. Curry
2. Paul
3. Westbrook

DPOY:
1. Leonard
2. Green
3. Millsap


ROY:
1. KAT
2. Jokic
3. Porzingis

MIP:
1. Draymond
2. Giannis
3. Bazemore

6MOY:
1.Tristan Thompson
2. Iggy
3. Biyombo

COY:
1. Stotts
2. Stevens
3. Clifford

EOY:
1. Olshey
2. Buford
3. Riley
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#73 » by mischievous » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:01 pm

POY:

1. Lebron
2. Curry
3. Westbrook
4. Kd
5. Kawhi

OPOY:

1. Curry
2. Lebron
3. Westbrook

DPOY:

1. Green
2. Kawhi
3. Lebron

ROY:

1. KAT
2. Porzingis
3. Jokic
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#74 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:28 pm

mis-post.
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#75 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:37 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:My votes are at the bottom for the poor soul who has to tally this. (ie, you can skip the text and just see my results)



Player of the Year

1) LeBron James - This was a two man race between Curry and James. I had James as the 2nd best player in the league at the end of the regular season. His combination of playmaking and elite scoring (he scored more points in the paint than any other season I think) was an improvement over last season, and more importantly he played amazing defense for a large part of the season. James stepped his game up in the playoffs, and his defense was a thing to behold.

To me, this is pretty much a prime season for LBJ, a clear improvement over last year - and prime James > Stephen Curry

2) Stephen Curry - The gap in offense between him and everyone else is still too large. He lead the league in PPG and TS, which is like finding El Dorado. His off ball play was magnificent, and between him and the Warriors they broke more records than I can count on two hands. Even with his relatively subpar playoffs, he was still a solid 25 point scorer. I do feel like his playmaking took a step backwards, perhaps because he played so much offball this season his decision making regressed. I trust him more as a scorer than the Thunder duo, and his RS was a lot better than Chris Paul's.


3) Chris Paul - Without Blake Griffin he still carried the Clippers to over 50 wins, a team that was shallow even with Griffin. His combination of generalship makes his impact really high and highly portable to playoff play. He was destroying the Blazers putting up 23 points on 7 assist with 1 turnover, it's too bad he broke his hand in game 4. Considering he had a relatively healthy season otherwise and played a buttload of minutes, I don't see the point in penalizing him, especially if I am not going to penalize Curry for missed games.

4) Kevin Durant - As I am writing this post, I am still going back and forth between Durant and Westbrook. I like both over Leonard, because I feel like their offensive abilities are more proven and consistent.

Durant had a rough post season, he just did not shot well, and that's a major difference between him and Westbrook. If Durant is going cold, which he relatively has for a few post seasons, his impact falls off a lot more than if Westbrook isn't making shots. With that being said, Durant DID make up a lot of his lost of offensive impact with defense this year. I'm going to side with the big time scorer here, and put Durant over Westbrook because of two way play, but I can likely be convinced to take Westbrook.


5) Russell Westbrook - A better offensive player than Durant, but much weaker on the defensive side. Westbrook really stepped up his playmaking this season, his ability to read what the defense gives him and make a pass has improved, and Westbrook-Kanter combination is really deadly. Westbrook's ability to control pace, pass and finish in the paint makes him a better offensive threat than Durant, but despite an improvement on defense, he still doesn't bring enough impact for me to put him over KD.

Offensive Player of the Year


1) Stephen Curry - Curry was the GOAT shooter last year, and his shooting this year blew all of that stuff away. Truly magnificent scoring ability, the guy beat his own 3 point shooting record by like a 100 3s or something.

2) Lebron James - Consistent scoring in the post season, he played more inside than last year. His post game and slashing is as aggressive as his prime seasons, and he still has amazing passing ability that makes his half court offense perfect for the playoffs.

3) Chris Paul - A lot like James in that he has a good combination of scoring and game managing, but trade dominant paint play with amazing mid range shooting. Paul's ball handling and ability to not turn the ball over might put him over James offensively, but I feel more confident with James scoring ability.

Defensive Player of the Year

1) Kawhi Leonard - A race that is neck to neck between him and Green, I am going to go with my brain and say Leonard, though with the eye test it seems like Green might be better. Leonard anchored an all time great defense, a better one than the 2016 and 2015 Warriors, despite him having overall less defensive talent. Leonard can guard multiple positions if asked and he can lock up perimeter players, which tells me that his defense might have more utility than Green's.

2) Draymond Green - His ability to blow up offensive sets is a thing to be hold, and I feel like his shot blocking was taken up a notch this season. Not much to say here, he was a force in the RS and most of the playoffs other than the Thunder series.

3) Rudy Gobert - Underrated because he missed 20 games and played on a team that barely missed the playoffs (due to the entire team having injury problems), but his rim protection was still as elite as ever. I think overall, I would rather have him anchoring my defense than more perimeter oriented defenders like Millsap and James - those two are good, but they're not Green/Leonard good.

Rookie of the Year


Nikola Jokic - Jokic has the best advance stats by far among the three rookie bigs. Nikola has defensive ratings, and his ORTG is insanely high. Jokic is a very talented passer, and probably a large reason why he was such a good offensive player in his rookie season. If I saw more of Jokic, I might be more comfortable giving him the leg up. This might be a case of Towns and Porzingis hype over shadowing objective analysis.

EDIT: On further look, I think Jokic is clearly the best rookie this season. Really, the only thing Towns has over him other than being the #1 draft pick is a "better" statline, which really has to do with him playing more minutes. Per 36, Jokic has a slightly better statline, impact stats suggest he is much better, he is clearly better defensively, using splits he kinda kills Towns and Zingis as well.


Karl Anthony-Towns - 18 points on 60 TS%, great ability to stretch the floor, double digit rebounding, amazing shot blocking ability. Towns has just had the GOAT one and done rookie season. The only thing that is shaky is that his pick and roll defense is very bad, but it's hard to vote against him given how dominant all his other stats are.

Kristaps Porzingis - People were dead wrong about Porzingis' body not being NBA ready. This guy is a defensive force, his ability to shut down the paint is already amazing. His defensive prowess might make him a better player for a contending team than Towns, but his offensive stats took a big dip in the 2nd half. Porzingis has shown great shooting potential, but he still needs more experience in order to drill those shots.



Most Improved Player

CJ McCollum - He was a 7 point scorer last year, and now he is among the lead leaders at 20.8 PPG per game. His ability to play without the ball, isolate and shoot from a far is insanely valuable.

Jae Crowder - His scoring and shooting made a big spike, and defensively he improved to nearly all-nba defense level. He is now among the best 3 and D guys in the league, where as last year he was more of a rotation player.

Kemba Walker - Walker is now a legitimate scoring threat, when prior years he was just a guy getting a lot of points on a lot of shots. Walker's ability to now isolate and now hit shots makes him a borderline top ten PG, where as before he seemed more like a bench player who got starter minutes.

Sixth Man of the Year

Andre Iguodala - An All-NBA defensive caliber player coming off the bench is hard to ignore. He is still a low tier all-star to me, and even with the decline in his athleticism he is still more athletic than most perimeter players. We saw how much GSW suffers when Iggy is hurting.

Dennis Schroder - Essentially played himself up into being the new starter, replacing an all-star in Jeff Teague. If Schroeder had more minutes, he would probably be an 18/7 type of player with good defense. He also did a pretty decent job in the playoffs considering the competition he faced.

Bismack Biyombo - Biyombo looked like he didn't even belong in the league when he was on the Bobcats/Hornets. He played much improved ball through out the RS and helped contribute to the Raptors 2nd seed berth. Biyombo's rebounding and defensive ability really got noticed when Jonas got injured and he totally destroyed the Heat, and absolutely dominated Love on glass in the Cavs series.

Coach of the Year

Brad Stevens - Stevens got 48 wins with only one low tier all-star and a rag tag bunch of NBA rejects. Guys like Evan Turner are now getting 6th man of the year votes. The Celtics are among the best defenses in the league despite being one of the worst teams in protecting the paint, and they're not near the worst offensive teams despite not little 3 point shooting and no legitimate star - if the Celtics did not play amazing team ball, they would be as bad as the Sacramento Kings.

Stan Van Gundy - The Pistons are one of the strongest 8th seeds the East has had in an incredibly long time. He's essentially restructured his offense in Orlando which perfectly tailors his center star in Drummond. Despite Drummond shooting a low TS, you can still feel his impact given the Piston's spacing. I also thought SVG used his rookie, Stanley Johnson very well, and Johnson is going to get developed into a legitimate weapon. The Pistons swept the Cavs in the RS, and even though they got swept played them hard in every game. SVG is the best thing to happen to the Pistons in a very long time.


Rick Carslile - This is kinda the "ol faithful" vote. I feel like he did well with what he had, if he had more talent, he likely would have gotten way more press. I am starting to believe that he is a better coach overall than Greg Popovich, I feel like his playoff hiccups are noticeably lower.

Executive of the Year (I put franchises instead of executives, since it can be confusing on who is calling the shots for certain teams)

Spurs - They re-signed Leonard and Green if I can recall, and got the biggest free agent in LaMarcus Aldridge. They also signed a solid starting PF in David West to the vet minimum. Add on to that, they got guys like Martin, Miller and Boban at the end of their bench. They brought over an athletic rookie in Jonathan Simmons in his mid 20s, who played meaningful minutes for them in the first half of the season. They stacked their team incredibly well, and pretty much did everything a team could want in the offseason.

Pistons - They made a great draft pick in Stanley Johnson, who has immediately helped them. The Pistons also managed to land Tobias Harris in a trade, as well as a Marcus Morris for a 2020 2nd round pick.

Knicks - This might be a little controversial, but I thought they had a very good free agency. They got a franchise changing pick in Kristaps Porzingis with the 4th pick in the draft (I think he will be the best player in his draft class). They also got solid signings in Robin Lopez for cheap and Affalo who is pretty decent, all and all, considering the Knicks had little to work with, they went in a pretty good direction this season.



---------------------------------------My Vote---------------------------------------

POY:

Lebron James
Stephen Curry
Chris Paul
Kevin Durant
Russell Westbrook

OPOY:

Stephen Curry
Lebron James
Chris Paul

DPOY:

Kawhi Leonard
Draymond Green
Rudy Gobert

ROY:

Nikola Jokić
Kristaps Porzingis
Karl Towns

MIP:

CJ McCollum
Jae Crowder
Kemba Walker



6MOY:

Andre Iguodala
Dennis Schroeder
Bismack Biyombo

COY:

Brad Stevens
Stan Van Gundy
Rick Carslile

EOY:

Spurs
Detroit
Knicks






Edit to my vote.


I am giving my ROY vote to Jokic



I actually feel like people here are not really looking too deeply into ROY. The fact that almost everyone has Towns, Zingis and Nikola in that order....seems pretty damn lazy. I really think most people are just not engaged enough for that award to accurately assess who was the best rookie, I get the same feeling with the 6th man of the year award also because Barton is still getting votes.

I mean statistically, Jokic...is better than Towns - and it's really not much of an argument. Towns has a double double and a #1 draft pick status to hold on too. Is Towns a better prospect than Jokic? Sure, but how is that the same thing as being a better rookie?

Think about this

Jokic is a really good defender already - Karl Towns...is not. Karl Towns cannot defend the pick and roll, this is well known and documented and even acknowledged by people here giving him #1 votes.

Jokic is a great passer - Per 36 he averages 4 APG - that means his offensive impact is already really high, Karl Towns is just good at moving the ball away. Towns doesn't have a clear advantage as a shooter either, there both around the same as mid range threats - with Towns being better at 3 point shooting but the volume for 3 point shots is not really significant.

Rebounding might seem like a big advantage for Towns, but he plays a lot more than Jokic does. Towns was given the keys to the Wolves, Jokic was coming over from Europe on a team that has more talent and depth/prospects than the Wolves.

Per 36, Jokic averaged 11.6 rebounds - .1 less than Towns per 36 RPG.



Scoring is the only thing Towns has over Jokic, and that doesn't equate to higher offensive impact, because Jokic kinda kills Towns as a passer. Per 36, Towns has 20 PPG on 59 TS% vs Jokic 16.5 PPG on 58 TS%.


I don't think most people care enough to think about it too hard, but is there an actual objective argument to suggest Towns is better than Jokic? I hate to be cynical, but the fact that not only Towns is over Jokic, but also Porzingis kinda has me skeptical of the analysis here. I mean what does Porzingis do that is better other than protect the rim very well?
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#76 » by eminence » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:59 pm

I agree that Jokic looked better than Towns when he did play. But a 900 minute gap is a lot to make up, and I don't think he was better enough to close that big gap.
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#77 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:01 pm

eminence wrote:I agree that Jokic looked better than Towns when he did play. But a 900 minute gap is a lot to make up, and I don't think he was better enough to close that big gap.


But minutes seems really arbitrary when comparing rookies. Using this logic, only rookies on trash teams can win ROY. That might be good for the actual media award, but isn't this board supposed to be better than that?

Rookies should be looked at more carefully, because minutes is not indicative of talent for rookies.


Plus, is that extra 900 minutes even more impactful? It certainly doesn't show in the W-L column.
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#78 » by lorak » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:28 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:I don't think most people care enough to think about it too hard, but is there an actual objective argument to suggest Towns is better than Jokic? I hate to be cynical, but the fact that not only Towns is over Jokic, but also Porzingis kinda has me skeptical of the analysis here. I mean what does Porzingis do that is better other than protect the rim very well?


The same might be said about people, who have Kawhi over Green as DPOTY...

And I would have Jokic higher, but he didn't even play half a game on average. That's issue for me.
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#79 » by eminence » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:29 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:But minutes seems really arbitrary when comparing rookies. Using this logic, only rookies on trash teams can win ROY. That might be good for the actual media award, but isn't this board supposed to be better than that?

Rookies should be looked at more carefully, because minutes is not indicative of talent for rookies.


Plus, is that extra 900 minutes even more impactful? It certainly doesn't show in the W-L column.


But I'm not interested in evaluating their talent. I'm trying to decide who had the better season, and minutes absolutely matters for that. These are minutes in a very similar context for Towns/Jokic, if Jokic had had that impact in those minutes for the Warriors, then yeah, he's the runaway ROY, but he didn't, he played for the Nuggets(who were marginally better than the Wolves).
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Re: '15-16 RealGM POY & Other Awards Voting Thread 

Post#80 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:46 pm

eminence wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:But minutes seems really arbitrary when comparing rookies. Using this logic, only rookies on trash teams can win ROY. That might be good for the actual media award, but isn't this board supposed to be better than that?

Rookies should be looked at more carefully, because minutes is not indicative of talent for rookies.


Plus, is that extra 900 minutes even more impactful? It certainly doesn't show in the W-L column.


But I'm not interested in evaluating their talent. I'm trying to decide who had the better season, and minutes absolutely matters for that. These are minutes in a very similar context for Towns/Jokic, if Jokic had had that impact in those minutes for the Warriors, then yeah, he's the runaway ROY, but he didn't, he played for the Nuggets(who were marginally better than the Wolves).



Agreed. IF you are going to chide people for being lazy and going on draft status(more than a little insulting btw) then I don't see how you can come back and just wave away a massive minutes difference. Because if the award is about talent--then its Towns and Porzingis in that order--something HBK claims to hate and believes "lazy". But they are clearly the two most talented players at this point.

But I agree it should be about their actual season, and playing that many fewer minutes is an issue. I did have Jokic over Zingis on my ballot, but couldn't justify him over Towns. Sometimes the best prospect also has the best year.
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