Which prime Pistons would be a Top 10 player today?

[Cowology]

To answer my own question, I'm going to see where I'd peg Isiah, Chauncey, Hill, Ben, Lanier, Houston, Rodman, Laimbeer, and Sheed fit.

PG: Curry, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, ISIAH THOMAS, Kyle Lowry, John Wall, CHAUNCEY BILLUPS, Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley

Did you seriously just put Zeek behind Damian Lillard as the 5th best PG in the league? I can't even.

[Alexander]

To answer my own question, I'm going to see where I'd peg Isiah, Chauncey, Hill, Ben, Lanier, Houston, Rodman, Laimbeer, and Sheed fit.

PG: Curry, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, ISIAH THOMAS, Kyle Lowry, John Wall, CHAUNCEY BILLUPS, Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley

Did you seriously just put Zeek behind Damian Lillard as the 5th best PG in the league? I can't even.

Yes. He and Terry Stotts led a team that lost four starters to a 44 win team and the second round of the playoffs.
Lillard's per 100 possession stats last season 35.1/9.6/5.6 compared to Isiah's best (when he was 23, 84-85) statistical season 25.5/16.6/5.3 make it worth a discussion.
Then again, I try to take off the homer glasses and be objective as possible with regards to Isiah and I think his and Tony Parker's career are largely equivalent. Also, it's easy to overrate today's young players because the rest of their careers are ahead of them and a certain trajectory of improvement can be assumed, whereas Isiah's is complete and written in stone.

[Alexander]

To answer my own question, I'm going to see where I'd peg Isiah, Chauncey, Hill, Ben, Lanier, Houston, Rodman, Laimbeer, and Sheed fit.

PG: Curry, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, ISIAH THOMAS, Kyle Lowry, John Wall, CHAUNCEY BILLUPS, Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley

Did you seriously just put Zeek behind Damian Lillard as the 5th best PG in the league? I can't even.

More to the point: if I put Isiah ahead of Damian Lillard, does he crack the top 10? Or does he have to better than Chris Paul, too?
Do you think Isiah was better than Chris Paul?

[Winglish]

To answer my own question, I'm going to see where I'd peg Isiah, Chauncey, Hill, Ben, Lanier, Houston, Rodman, Laimbeer, and Sheed fit.

PG: Curry, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, ISIAH THOMAS, Kyle Lowry, John Wall, CHAUNCEY BILLUPS, Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley

SG: James Harden, Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, DeMar DeRozan, ALLAN HOUSTON, Kobe Bryant, Tony Allen

SF: LeBron James, Kevin Durant, GRANT HILL, Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Carmelo Anthony

PF: Draymond Green, LaMarcus Aldridge, DENNIS RODMAN, Paul Millsap, Derrick Favors, Chris Bosh, Blake Griffin, RASHEED WALLACE

C: DeMarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, BOB LANIER, BEN WALLACE, BILL LAIMBEER, DeAndre Jordan, Andre Drummond, Hassan Whiteside, Karl Anthony Towns, Al Horford, Greg Monroe, Brook Lopez

Something like that? I think every player but Grant Hill misses out on the overall top 10 cut, though. Maybe Lanier makes it.

Hello, as an outsider looking in I think you have Isiah Thomas ranked too low. To steal from Wikipedia, here is why:

2× NBA champion (1989, 1990)
NBA Finals MVP (1990)
12× NBA All-Star (1982–1993)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1984, 1986)
3× All-NBA First Team (1984–1986)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1983, 1987)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1982)
J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award (1987)
NBA assists leader (1985)
Detroit Pistons all-time leading scorer
No. 11 retired by Detroit Pistons
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
NCAA champion (1981)
NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (1981)
Consensus first-team All-American (1981)
USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year (1980)

Let's talk about Damian Lillard when he has accomplished something beyond scoring the basketball and a 2nd round loss in the playoffs.

Isiah's game was transcendent. He would be great in any era. I mean, he won the NCAA title as well as his NBA titles, so it was not just a matter of his teammates making him look good in Detroit. Nah, Isiah was a winner on the basketball court. I have mad respect for his game.

I would put Zeke ahead of Chris Paul also.

[Canadafan]

Dear God just stop this madness! Lol. If anyone here thinks Lillard is better than Isiah even with your Homer shades on, just get off this message board immediately! Hahaha jk but not really. For God sakes, to even rank Chris Paul ahead of him is insane. Chris Paul has not won a damn thing. Westbrook and Curry- they've had a nice little run but u saw what happened to Curry in the playoffs. Couldn't handle the tough defense and couldn't handle defending a tough PG. Isiah would have ate him up. Westbrook is a Beast but nowhere near the playmaker and leader Isiah was.
Then u got Kyle damn Lowry ahead of Billups. Sweet baby Jesus give me the strength lol

[Canadafan]

Allan Houston over Kobe? Favors over Sheed? Huh? Demarcus cousins lol!? Wait I must be reading this wrong. My apologies sir I am. I just clicked on the second page to start reading this thread. I'm gonna go to the 1st page

[Canadafan]

OK OK I sorta see where you're going with this. Just read the 1st page and I do like your top 10 players list.
In my opinion, and everyone has their opinion. If I was too harsh on yours , my apologies. But my opinion- Isiah is better than Curry and Westbrook. Dumars vs Harden I take Dumars all day. But Harden I agree overall is a better player. Maybe. Allan Houston doesn't even exist in my mind lol. G Hill for a year or two is definitely top 5 sf but not enough years for me to seriously rank him. Rodman would shat all over Draymond green. Sheed too for that matter. Ben and bill especially would have Demarcus lose his mind.
Wait sorry I got off topic. The main guy I have a problem with in your rankings is Isiah. Of anyone that's ever put on a pistons jersey, he's the guy that most of us can honestly say is an all time great. Scorer. Passer. Leader. Heart. Tough as nails. As great of a Scorer/shooter Curry has been the last couple years, I don't see him as an all time great player. Shooter? Hell yes. Player ? Nahhhh

[Uncle Mxy]

Dantley would get to the line 20 times a game in today's NBA.

[Alexander]

OK OK I sorta see where you're going with this. Just read the 1st page and I do like your top 10 players list.
In my opinion, and everyone has their opinion. If I was too harsh on yours , my apologies. But my opinion- Isiah is better than Curry and Westbrook. Dumars vs Harden I take Dumars all day. But Harden I agree overall is a better player. Maybe. Allan Houston doesn't even exist in my mind lol. G Hill for a year or two is definitely top 5 sf but not enough years for me to seriously rank him. Rodman would shat all over Draymond green. Sheed too for that matter. Ben and bill especially would have Demarcus lose his mind.
Wait sorry I got off topic. The main guy I have a problem with in your rankings is Isiah. Of anyone that's ever put on a pistons jersey, he's the guy that most of us can honestly say is an all time great. Scorer. Passer. Leader. Heart. Tough as nails. As great of a Scorer/shooter Curry has been the last couple years, I don't see him as an all time great player. Shooter? Hell yes. Player ? Nahhhh

Haha, I was ranking players based on their prime years as Pistons, against the players who received some form of accolade this season.

Chauncey was never the best PG in the league. He was with us from 2002-2009, 26-31 years old, his literal prime. In that time, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Gilbert Arenas, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Tony Parker all had some of their best seasons. Sam Cassell and Baron Davis and Stephon Marbury were still making a difference early on, as well. in any given season, I would have preferred at least three of those players over Chauncey for this team.
Chauncey was probably a lock for top six at his position entering any given season, and he made a second team and a third team once, but I'd be hard-pressed to proclaim a top five PG from the mid 2000s as an obvious lock for top five in the mid 2010s, the ~Golden Age of PGs~. Where do you rank Jason Kidd, next to Westbrook and Curry? Nash won two MVPs, but was he offensively as revolutionary as Curry? Gilbert Arenas could drop sixty, is he a worse scorer than Westbrook? It's difficult to say.

Evaluating old players is like evaluating great musical hits from a certain decade. There's psychology to it. The true greats will stand the test of time while lesser objects are forgotten and fade, and there's been more time to sort out the good from the bad. It's why to my friends and I the 90s seemed to produce the best music while the 2000s wasn't as memorable, but I guarantee when I'm fifty I'm going to get excited when one of the *greats* from the 00s plays on the radio, and my kid is going to roll his eyes at me, if only because a select few songs are going to survive the great filter.

There are fans who say Isiah was the best PG of all time. They'd take him over Magic and Stockton. The problem is, it only comes from Pistons fans, and it just screams of "old man yelling at cloud" syndrome.

I don't know. I never saw Isiah live. I was six when he played his last season. I've seen the documentaries, we bought the Bad Boys DVD sets, I've seen some classic games on TV, I've watched the highlight compilations. He's difficult for me to evaluate, because as a scorer, shooter, passer, he was good, but not an all-time greatest of the great way, at any one thing in isolation. His passing statistics hold up, and he's top 7 all time, but Chris Paul is on pace to catch him in two years (I checked the math), when they'd both have played thirteen seasons. Their scoring pace is a virtual dead heat, too.
and that's just Chris Paul. We've established that he's at best the gamma male at the position heading into 16-17. I'd get killed for suggesting that Chris Paul is better, when the stats show that they're very similar.

I'm not putting Isiah on any of my fantasy build a teams, because if I want a shooter I'm taking Curry or Nash. If I want a scorer I'm taking Curry or Iverson or any number of automatic 25-30 a night guys. If I want a great playmaker/passer and my selection is going to be the cornerstone of a system, I'm taking Kidd or Nash or going outside the box and putting LeBron (or other point forwards) at PG. I don't think saying any of this comes from a place of unforgivable arrogance or hatred, either.

[Snakebites]

To answer my own question, I'm going to see where I'd peg Isiah, Chauncey, Hill, Ben, Lanier, Houston, Rodman, Laimbeer, and Sheed fit.

PG: Curry, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, ISIAH THOMAS, Kyle Lowry, John Wall, CHAUNCEY BILLUPS, Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley

Did you seriously just put Zeek behind Damian Lillard as the 5th best PG in the league? I can't even.

More to the point: if I put Isiah ahead of Damian Lillard, does he crack the top 10? Or does he have to better than Chris Paul, too?
Do you think Isiah was better than Chris Paul?

I think Isiah at his absolute peak was better than Chris Paul is now. Its close though.

[Manocad]

As one of the few people on the board old enough to have watched Isiah's entire NBA career and thus Chris Paul's entire career to this point, there is no way you can rank Chris Paul ahead of Isiah. Greatness goes beyond stats. Isiah had far more heart, determination and grit than Chris Paul has ever showed.

[Cowology]

As one of the few people on the board old enough to have watched Isiah's entire NBA career and thus Chris Paul's entire career to this point, there is no way you can rank Chris Paul ahead of Isiah. Greatness goes beyond stats. Isiah had far more heart, determination and grit than Chris Paul has ever showed.

This x1000.

It's not just about season stats or career averages, but also individual moments of greatness. Isiah knew how to capture those moments and will his team to victory. Plus he'd just flat out be unguardable with todays rules and soft defense.

People like to hi-lite the advances in physical fitness; how much quicker, stronger and more athletic the league is as a whole and that is true. But just because on the whole the league is leaner and more athletic that does not mean there weren't transcendent athletes at other periods of time as well. Isiahs strength, speed and resiliency would easily translate to todays game, especially with the lack of hand-checking and physical interior play.

I wouldn't fault anybody for picking Curry or Westbrook over Zeke; both are excellent players who fill up a stat sheet and Curry has a pair of MVP's and a Championship next to his name. Westbrook may be the closest thing to Oscar we've ever seen. But Chris Paul? He's basically just Isiah without the intangibles!

[Manocad]

Yep. There's a good reason Isiah was considered in his prime to be the best "pound for pound" player in the NBA. Nobody ever said or will say that about Chris Paul or even Curry. Westbrook you could certainly make a case for.

[Warspite]

To answer my own question, I'm going to see where I'd peg Isiah, Chauncey, Hill, Ben, Lanier, Houston, Rodman, Laimbeer, and Sheed fit.

PG: Curry, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, ISIAH THOMAS, Kyle Lowry, John Wall, CHAUNCEY BILLUPS, Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley

Did you seriously just put Zeek behind Damian Lillard as the 5th best PG in the league? I can't even.

More to the point: if I put Isiah ahead of Damian Lillard, does he crack the top 10? Or does he have to better than Chris Paul, too?
Do you think Isiah was better than Chris Paul?

By a mile. Isiah's best season is better than anything we have seen from a guard since Magic and MJ. Current CP3 is too old and is no longer good enough to compete with HoF PGs in their peak seasons.

[MrBigShot]

I think Isiah's efficiency would look vastly different in today's NBA. Much better with how easy it is for a player with elite quickness and handle to get to the rim, as Kyrie does whenever he wants. I also think he'd put more work into his three point shot.

Nobody would ever claim that Chauncey was a better player than Iverson, but when Denver replaced AI with Chauncey they instantly had the most successful season they've had in ages, making it 6 games into the WCF. Similarly, I think Isiah is one of those players. He's just a flat out winner. I don't think its a coincidence that CP3 always comes up short while Isiah led a team to back to back championships in a league featuring the likes of MJ, Magic, and Larry Bird. Should've been a 3peat if not for a kareem phantom foul.

[Canadafan]

I think Isiah's efficiency would look vastly different in today's NBA. Much better with how easy it is for a player with elite quickness and handle to get to the rim, as Kyrie does whenever he wants. I also think he'd put more work into his three point shot.

Nobody would ever claim that Chauncey was a better player than Iverson, but when Denver replaced AI with Chauncey they instantly had the most successful season they've had in ages, making it 6 games into the WCF. Similarly, I think Isiah is one of those players. He's just a flat out winner. I don't think its a coincidence that CP3 always comes up short while Isiah led a team to back to back championships in a league featuring the likes of MJ, Magic, and Larry Bird. Should've been a 3peat if not for a kareem phantom foul.

Oh my God I knowwwww! Laimbeer did not touch him!! Lol ughhhh. Somebody should toss up a video of that to let some of these younger guys know how the league screwed us lol

[MrBigShot]

I think Isiah's efficiency would look vastly different in today's NBA. Much better with how easy it is for a player with elite quickness and handle to get to the rim, as Kyrie does whenever he wants. I also think he'd put more work into his three point shot.

Nobody would ever claim that Chauncey was a better player than Iverson, but when Denver replaced AI with Chauncey they instantly had the most successful season they've had in ages, making it 6 games into the WCF. Similarly, I think Isiah is one of those players. He's just a flat out winner. I don't think its a coincidence that CP3 always comes up short while Isiah led a team to back to back championships in a league featuring the likes of MJ, Magic, and Larry Bird. Should've been a 3peat if not for a kareem phantom foul.

Oh my God I knowwwww! Laimbeer did not touch him!! Lol ughhhh. Somebody should toss up a video of that to let some of these younger guys know how the league screwed us lol

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSHGG0sGUOc[/youtube]

Not that it cost us a championship but I also thought this play was a really sad display of reffing.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfoCNTTV21g[/youtube]

[Rastas]

Isiah
Rodman
Hill

All in their primes could all crack into the current NBA top 10

[flow]

To answer my own question, I'm going to see where I'd peg Isiah, Chauncey, Hill, Ben, Lanier, Houston, Rodman, Laimbeer, and Sheed fit.

PG: Curry, Westbrook, Chris Paul, Damian Lillard, ISIAH THOMAS, Kyle Lowry, John Wall, CHAUNCEY BILLUPS, Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley

Did you seriously just put Zeek behind Damian Lillard as the 5th best PG in the league? I can't even.

More to the point: if I put Isiah ahead of Damian Lillard, does he crack the top 10? Or does he have to better than Chris Paul, too?
Do you think Isiah was better than Chris Paul?

Yes. Stats be damned.