The 2016 Offseason Thread

[NavLDO]

Do you watch many Steelers games?

As many as I can. Unfortunately, I'm currently stationed on the "left" coast area, so they don't show a lot of Steeler games unless they are playing the Niners/Seahawks/Raiders/Chargers, etc. or I'll look for some 'streaming' online when available. But yeah, I'd say I watch more Steeler games than Suns' games, unfortunately, but apparently, considering dremill's response to me, I'm unworthy to post here. But at least I'm honest about what I am willing and unwilling to spend my evenings doing, and never, not once, tried to come across here or act like I know more than I do based upon time spent watching games.

So, I'll say it again, so everyone is clear on my recent NBA watching experience--over the past couple of years, I have not watched very many Suns' games, but have watched enough NBA through the years when deployed and not o a shore tour with my family, so please everyone, take that into consideration when I post here. Again, watch a fair amount in the past, especially late 80s/early 90s, and again, when deployed and had time to watch, but I have NOT watched a lot of full Suns' games over the past couple of years

Have you watched any summer league?

Wow, that's saying something that you don't watch many Steelers games (and there are 16, so it sounds like you may watch a handful a year) but you watch even FEWER Suns games.

It doesn't matter if you watch the games to make good posts, however the eye test can tell you quite a bit as well. RunDogGun, a ex poster used to post quite a bit and do a lot of talking and arguing about Suns opinions and he never watched the games either.

And I'm sure there were many fans who stopped watching games a couple months into last year, because it got REALLY ugly.

Yes, I watched the 1st game in its entirety, but missed yesterday's game. But again, this is RECENT experience, not LIFETIME experience watching...I've watched quite a bit since age 15/16 in the mid-to-late 80s.

[bwgood77]

That is like asking a drivers to use their turn signals, ain't gonna happen. During SL people change their opinion daily, instead of looking for a skill set and not numbers in the box score.

Reminds me of overhearing someone say to a girl once "you really need to use your turn signal more" and her response was "I try to but I often forget. I hate it too because I like to remind myself to turn up ahead."

And then that reminds me of another story about a woman calling into a radio station or actually I think it was like the city to complain about a deer crossing sign and it's location. She said "I really think you guys should consider moving that deer crossing sign to a less busy location because there is a ton of traffic right there". Actually I think she called the city first or sent them a letter, and then called a radio station to talk about it. I heard a clip of the conversation and the discussion/argument lasted a good five minutes before they finally convinced her that the sign wasn't for the deer.

[Fo-Real]

^I think we're trading Archie and Tucker. I don't expect Dudley to play much of the four, and I certainly don't expect him to start there. I'm not sure when we'll trade those guys, but I expect them to not be on the team in March.

During the Mc D interview, he outright said Dudley starts at pf to start the season. Praised his shooting ability and vet leadership..... so.... ya.

[King4Day]

Sounds like you just kinda made that rumor up. RW doesn't resign here. Case closed.

Woj has already said Westbrook has taken on the challenge of remaining in OKC and being the lead guy they build around. He likes Adams and signed off on Oladipo. Westbrook believes in those guys, his guys. He'll sign a $200M contract extension next off-season. I believe all rosterbation involving Westbrook is just that, and a waste of time.

I know it's very unlikely but I'd love to see him stay and get OKC their first ring. How amazing would it be to do that while Durant, even if he wins rings with GSW, will have to live with the fact that he couldn't do it in OKC, but Westbrook could.

This feels like the classic double turn (heel/face). Not that either guy was truly hated, but Durant always seemed like the good guy and Westy, the bad guy who will leave the first chance he gets. Roles could be reversed now.

[Qwigglez]

^I think we're trading Archie and Tucker. I don't expect Dudley to play much of the four, and I certainly don't expect him to start there. I'm not sure when we'll trade those guys, but I expect them to not be on the team in March.

During the Mc D interview, he outright said Dudley starts at pf to start the season. Praised his shooting ability and vet leadership..... so.... ya.

Okay sorry guys, what I meant was... I don't want Dudley to start at the four. McD is the GM, he isn't the coach so there's that also.

[Years90Suns]

Reminds me of overhearing someone say to a girl once "you really need to use your turn signal more" and her response was "I try to but I often forget. I hate it too because I like to remind myself to turn up ahead."

And then that reminds me of another story about a woman calling into a radio station or actually I think it was like the city to complain about a deer crossing sign and it's location. She said "I really think you guys should consider moving that deer crossing sign to a less busy location because there is a ton of traffic right there". Actually I think she called the city first or sent them a letter, and then called a radio station to talk about it. I heard a clip of the conversation and the discussion/argument lasted a good five minutes before they finally convinced her that the sign wasn't for the deer.

Thank you very much for comparing me to a dumb girl with obviously no commom sense at all.
I do not think I expressed such opinion to be compared to that but, due to the time and effort you and some others took to answer, no doubt I wrote down some stupid ideas.

I am pretty sure I have seen Bender played an infinite number of times more than you, or probably the rest of this forum. I have not seen Chriss played before.
As incorrectly said before, while Bender has an anormous skill set that could translate or not into a great NBA player (he has all the carachteristics to become a laid back basketball player and that could lead to a careless player), Chriss completely lacks skills other than a great jumper (which is not bad) and a physical ability that we should mold into a basketball player.

No one more than me (and them) want them to become great basketball players here. I just hope we picked the correct guys this time and that it does not take them 5 years to develope. We need them to be good earlier, as I believe some of our guys will pick in 2-3 years and others will start their way down not that late.
So let's see whether Bledsoe, Knight, Len, Booker, Bender and Chriss, with Warren and Goodwin can all more or less give a common effort that translates into a maximum for the team in 2-3-4 years.
Later Bledsoe will be old, Chandler will be gone, Tucker and Dudley obviously will be retired and may be some of the players on rookei contracts could sign elsewhere if we do not walk towards an important goal.

[bwgood77]

Thank you very much for comparing me to a dumb girl with obviously no commom sense at all.
I do not think I expressed such opinion to be compared to that but, due to the time and effort you and some others took to answer, no doubt I wrote down some stupid ideas.

I am pretty sure I have seen Bender played an infinite number of times more than you, or probably the rest of this forum. I have not seen Chriss played before.
As incorrectly said before, while Bender has an anormous skill set that could translate or not into a great NBA player (he has all the carachteristics to become a laid back basketball player and that could lead to a careless player), Chriss completely lacks skills other than a great jumper (which is not bad) and a physical ability that we should mold into a basketball player.

No one more than me (and them) want them to become great basketball players here. I just hope we picked the correct guys this time and that it does not take them 5 years to develope. We need them to be good earlier, as I believe some of our guys will pick in 2-3 years and others will start their way down not that late.
So let's see whether Bledsoe, Knight, Len, Booker, Bender and Chriss, with Warren and Goodwin can all more or less give a common effort that translates into a maximum for the team in 2-3-4 years.
Later Bledsoe will be old, Chandler will be gone, Tucker and Dudley obviously will be retired and may be some of the players on rookei contracts could sign elsewhere if we do not walk towards an important goal.

I was responding strictly to JMac's comment about turn signals and my stories had nothing to do with you. I didn't realize you were even quoted, so I apologize if that was misleading. You obviously have a lot of commom sense, because Bender DOES have an anormous skill set but I don't think he has the carachteristics to become a laid back player...as a matter of fact, I see the exact opposite. He will just take a while to develope because he is a very young rookei.

I believe everyone's opinions are valuable so I love to hear your opinions and anyone else's as that is that makes the forum fun. If everyone had the same opinion there wouldn't be a lot to talk about.

[NavLDO]

Do you watch many Steelers games?

As many as I can. Unfortunately, I'm currently stationed on the "left" coast area, so they don't show a lot of Steeler games unless they are playing the Niners/Seahawks/Raiders/Chargers, etc. or I'll look for some 'streaming' online when available. But yeah, I'd say I watch more Steeler games than Suns' games, unfortunately, but apparently, considering dremill's response to me, I'm unworthy to post here. But at least I'm honest about what I am willing and unwilling to spend my evenings doing, and never, not once, tried to come across here or act like I know more than I do based upon time spent watching games.

So, I'll say it again, so everyone is clear on my recent NBA watching experience--over the past couple of years, I have not watched very many Suns' games, but have watched enough NBA through the years when deployed and not o a shore tour with my family, so please everyone, take that into consideration when I post here. Again, watch a fair amount in the past, especially late 80s/early 90s, and again, when deployed and had time to watch, but I have NOT watched a lot of full Suns' games over the past couple of years

Have you watched any summer league?

Wow, that's saying something that you don't watch many Steelers games (and there are 16, so it sounds like you may watch a handful a year) but you watch even FEWER Suns games.

It doesn't matter if you watch the games to make good posts, however the eye test can tell you quite a bit as well. RunDogGun, a ex poster used to post quite a bit and do a lot of talking and arguing about Suns opinions and he never watched the games either.

And I'm sure there were many fans who stopped watching games a couple months into last year, because it got REALLY ugly.

Thanks, BW, and if I ever come across as acting like I've seen how a guy looks playing without admitting that I watched the game, then by all means, call me out on it, but my "freaking the **** out on people" regarding Dragic had nothing to do with how he looked as a player, but it's not hard to see that he had ONE great year, and was regressing, even though it was as an off-ball position. He got what he wanted in the Heat, and how long did it take for Heat fans to start bemoaning the trade they made? They are still making threads (which I responded to, of course) on the T&T thread, about what his worth is via a trade....why??? Because he's not playing at the level he did in '13-'14, and that's what they thought they were getting, when in fact, they got what they got last year, which is a declining-talent at PG, and I don't need to watch him play a ton to see that he was not playing at a high level for them.

[NavLDO]

Reminds me of overhearing someone say to a girl once "you really need to use your turn signal more" and her response was "I try to but I often forget. I hate it too because I like to remind myself to turn up ahead."

And then that reminds me of another story about a woman calling into a radio station or actually I think it was like the city to complain about a deer crossing sign and it's location. She said "I really think you guys should consider moving that deer crossing sign to a less busy location because there is a ton of traffic right there". Actually I think she called the city first or sent them a letter, and then called a radio station to talk about it. I heard a clip of the conversation and the discussion/argument lasted a good five minutes before they finally convinced her that the sign wasn't for the deer.

Thank you very much for comparing me to a dumb girl with obviously no commom sense at all.
I do not think I expressed such opinion to be compared to that but, due to the time and effort you and some others took to answer, no doubt I wrote down some stupid ideas.

I am pretty sure I have seen Bender played an infinite number of times more than you, or probably the rest of this forum. I have not seen Chriss played before.
As incorrectly said before, while Bender has an anormous skill set that could translate or not into a great NBA player (he has all the carachteristics to become a laid back basketball player and that could lead to a careless player), Chriss completely lacks skills other than a great jumper (which is not bad) and a physical ability that we should mold into a basketball player.

No one more than me (and them) want them to become great basketball players here. I just hope we picked the correct guys this time and that it does not take them 5 years to develope. We need them to be good earlier, as I believe some of our guys will pick in 2-3 years and others will start their way down not that late.
So let's see whether Bledsoe, Knight, Len, Booker, Bender and Chriss, with Warren and Goodwin can all more or less give a common effort that translates into a maximum for the team in 2-3-4 years.
Later Bledsoe will be old, Chandler will be gone, Tucker and Dudley obviously will be retired and may be some of the players on rookei contracts could sign elsewhere if we do not walk towards an important goal.

And not ONE mention of Ulis??? Seriously, he may turn out to be the best pick of the draft for us. Tough to say after two SL games, but he sure did look good out there in the 1st SL game, and it looks as if he played fairly well in his 2nd (from what I saw in the Box Score).

[bwgood77]

^I think we're trading Archie and Tucker. I don't expect Dudley to play much of the four, and I certainly don't expect him to start there. I'm not sure when we'll trade those guys, but I expect them to not be on the team in March.

During the Mc D interview, he outright said Dudley starts at pf to start the season. Praised his shooting ability and vet leadership..... so.... ya.

Okay sorry guys, what I meant was... I don't want Dudley to start at the four. McD is the GM, he isn't the coach so there's that also.

It's mostly about being smart with his words. If he flat out says "Dudley will play the 3" then Tucker or Warren might not take it so well, and Tucker would probably realize they don't consider him part of the future.

I imagine they will either trade Tucker before the trade deadline (they should if they can get anything decent for him) or just let him go in the offseason. He could easily be used in a bigger trade as well and the team, no matter who it is, wouldn't care if he was part of it because it's not long term money. I think we will start the season with Tucker and Dudley at 3 and 4, trade Tucker by the deadline, insert Warren and when the young guys are ready, we will just rotate Warren, Dudley, Chriss and Bender all at the 3 and 4 (the latter two probably playing mostly the four with Warren or Dudley at the 3. I think we will also probably go small a bit and play Chriss/Bender at 4/5

I used to think it would be good to play Chriss and Bender together a lot this year, but it might be better for their development if usually only one of them plays at a time with more vets or Ulis, since he is suck a good passer and they should really learn his instincts.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Given that neither Tucker nor Goodwin have been around, I think there's good reason to think that we're looking to deal them. I imagine there will suitors for both. Hell, combined, they might be worth a protected future first. *Might*

[bwgood77]

So with the Nets missing out on Crabbe, who would have played the 2, and Tyler Johnson, who would have been sixth man, and their coach being a development guy, that seems like the perfect place to trade Archie, if they'd even want him.

With Crabbe and Johnson no longer in play, Brooklyn must now turn to a contingency plan to fill out its roster, which is still bare and lacking in dynamic young talent.

Crabbe and Johnson both elected to sign with the Nets in part because their roles would've been expanded.

Crabbe was to be the team's starting shooting guard, while Johnson would have served as its sixth man and backup point guard.

Brooklyn was taking a big risk in inking Crabbe and Johnson to those massive offer sheets, but the front office believed both players had significant potential.

Nets coach Kenny Atkinson is best known for his ability to develop players and help them improve.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16964330/brooklyn-nets-left-empty-handed-losing-allen-crabbe-portland-trail-blazers-tyler-johnson-miami-heat

It would be a great deal if we could get a 2nd round pick from them, since it would like be early to mid 30s, but they may be hesitant to give up any more picks since they only have Boston's 1st next year, and no 1st rounder in 2018

This is their current depth chart, not including:

Depth Chart:
PG: Jeremy Lin, Isaiah Whitehead
SG: Bojan Bogdanovic, Caris LeVert
SF: Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Sean Kilpatrick
PF: Trevor Booker, Chris McCullough
C: Brook Lopez, Justin Hamilton

While they are two deep at every position, they obviously want more guards since they signed those guys and perhaps a more legit backup than a rookie at the guard spots. Though LeVert may be good enough to start once he gets healthy.

[King4Day]

So with the Nets missing out on Crabbe, who would have played the 2, and Tyler Johnson, who would have been sixth man, and their coach being a development guy, that seems like the perfect place to trade Archie, if they'd even want him.

With Crabbe and Johnson no longer in play, Brooklyn must now turn to a contingency plan to fill out its roster, which is still bare and lacking in dynamic young talent.

Crabbe and Johnson both elected to sign with the Nets in part because their roles would've been expanded.

Crabbe was to be the team's starting shooting guard, while Johnson would have served as its sixth man and backup point guard.

Brooklyn was taking a big risk in inking Crabbe and Johnson to those massive offer sheets, but the front office believed both players had significant potential.

Nets coach Kenny Atkinson is best known for his ability to develop players and help them improve.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16964330/brooklyn-nets-left-empty-handed-losing-allen-crabbe-portland-trail-blazers-tyler-johnson-miami-heat

It would be a great deal if we could get a 2nd round pick from them, since it would like be early to mid 30s, but they may be hesitant to give up any more picks since they only have Boston's 1st next year, and no 1st rounder in 2018

This is their current depth chart, not including:

Depth Chart:
PG: Jeremy Lin, Isaiah Whitehead
SG: Bojan Bogdanovic, Caris LeVert
SF: Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Sean Kilpatrick
PF: Trevor Booker, Chris McCullough
C: Brook Lopez, Justin Hamilton

While they are two deep at every position, they obviously want more guards since they signed those guys and perhaps a more legit backup than a rookie at the guard spots. Though LeVert may be good enough to start once he gets healthy.

Nets just signed Grieves Vasquez too. I could see them make a run at Sullinger on maybe a 1 year 10-13mil deal.
Force him to show what he's got.

[bwgood77]

So with the Nets missing out on Crabbe, who would have played the 2, and Tyler Johnson, who would have been sixth man, and their coach being a development guy, that seems like the perfect place to trade Archie, if they'd even want him.

With Crabbe and Johnson no longer in play, Brooklyn must now turn to a contingency plan to fill out its roster, which is still bare and lacking in dynamic young talent.

Crabbe and Johnson both elected to sign with the Nets in part because their roles would've been expanded.

Crabbe was to be the team's starting shooting guard, while Johnson would have served as its sixth man and backup point guard.

Brooklyn was taking a big risk in inking Crabbe and Johnson to those massive offer sheets, but the front office believed both players had significant potential.

Nets coach Kenny Atkinson is best known for his ability to develop players and help them improve.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16964330/brooklyn-nets-left-empty-handed-losing-allen-crabbe-portland-trail-blazers-tyler-johnson-miami-heat

It would be a great deal if we could get a 2nd round pick from them, since it would like be early to mid 30s, but they may be hesitant to give up any more picks since they only have Boston's 1st next year, and no 1st rounder in 2018

This is their current depth chart, not including:

Depth Chart:
PG: Jeremy Lin, Isaiah Whitehead
SG: Bojan Bogdanovic, Caris LeVert
SF: Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Sean Kilpatrick
PF: Trevor Booker, Chris McCullough
C: Brook Lopez, Justin Hamilton

While they are two deep at every position, they obviously want more guards since they signed those guys and perhaps a more legit backup than a rookie at the guard spots. Though LeVert may be good enough to start once he gets healthy.

Nets just signed Grieves Vasquez too. I could see them make a run at Sullinger on maybe a 1 year 10-13mil deal.
Force him to show what he's got.

Oh yeah, I had just read they signed Vasquez. It's only a one year deal too. I don't know what other SGs are out there but Archie has very little risk in picking up, since he is cheap and becomes a RFA next year, so if he does well, they could match.

I guess I shouldn't call him a SG though since he can't shoot particularly well. That would be like calling Jaylen Brown a Shooting Forward.

[Frank Lee]

......., but my "freaking the **** out on people" regarding Dragic had nothing to do with how he looked as a player, but blah tee blah tee blah blah blah

you just couldn't help yourself could you ? ...
Bombs away


Haven't we learned by now to take McMully's comments with a grain of salt. If he wants to start Dudley, so be it...and if he wants to call him a PF... go ahead, knock yourself out Ry-boy... but its doesn't change the fact that Duds is a SF, who now is too slow to cover most SFs...so yeah, lets make him a PF. What ever. Its a temporary assignment.

Id say the FO is really eyeballing Chriss, Bender, and likely Williams to see if these guys can actually contribute sooner than later.

[Years90Suns]

Thank you very much for comparing me to a dumb girl with obviously no commom sense at all.
I do not think I expressed such opinion to be compared to that but, due to the time and effort you and some others took to answer, no doubt I wrote down some stupid ideas.

I am pretty sure I have seen Bender played an infinite number of times more than you, or probably the rest of this forum. I have not seen Chriss played before.
As incorrectly said before, while Bender has an anormous skill set that could translate or not into a great NBA player (he has all the carachteristics to become a laid back basketball player and that could lead to a careless player), Chriss completely lacks skills other than a great jumper (which is not bad) and a physical ability that we should mold into a basketball player.

No one more than me (and them) want them to become great basketball players here. I just hope we picked the correct guys this time and that it does not take them 5 years to develope. We need them to be good earlier, as I believe some of our guys will pick in 2-3 years and others will start their way down not that late.
So let's see whether Bledsoe, Knight, Len, Booker, Bender and Chriss, with Warren and Goodwin can all more or less give a common effort that translates into a maximum for the team in 2-3-4 years.
Later Bledsoe will be old, Chandler will be gone, Tucker and Dudley obviously will be retired and may be some of the players on rookei contracts could sign elsewhere if we do not walk towards an important goal.

I was responding strictly to JMac's comment about turn signals and my stories had nothing to do with you. I didn't realize you were even quoted, so I apologize if that was misleading. You obviously have a lot of commom sense, because Bender DOES have an anormous skill set but I don't think he has the carachteristics to become a laid back player...as a matter of fact, I see the exact opposite. He will just take a while to develope because he is a very young rookei.

I believe everyone's opinions are valuable so I love to hear your opinions and anyone else's as that is that makes the forum fun. If everyone had the same opinion there wouldn't be a lot to talk about.

Great, then.
Great words.
Friends, then!

I would never understand why coaches get into this trouble every summer well before training camp begins by saying who will be the starting player in any given position. Why every summer some coach is asked and why he answers? Wouldn't it be more normal to answer "we will see when they train together and I see/we see the level of every player. I am not going to handle the keys of any position to any given name"?

By the way, I would not trade Goodwin for a second round pick. I believe he showed last year that he belongs and that he can play two or three positions. I was very reluctant for three years until mid season last year. I saw some real improveness and a different mentality. God, he played PG for us when he supposedly had no handling abilities.

[bwgood77]

I was responding strictly to JMac's comment about turn signals and my stories had nothing to do with you. I didn't realize you were even quoted, so I apologize if that was misleading. You obviously have a lot of commom sense, because Bender DOES have an anormous skill set but I don't think he has the carachteristics to become a laid back player...as a matter of fact, I see the exact opposite. He will just take a while to develope because he is a very young rookei.

I believe everyone's opinions are valuable so I love to hear your opinions and anyone else's as that is that makes the forum fun. If everyone had the same opinion there wouldn't be a lot to talk about.

Great, then.
Great words.
Friends, then!

I would never understand why coaches get into this trouble every summer well before training camp begins by saying who will be the starting player in any given position. Why every summer some coach is asked and why he answers? Wouldn't it be more normal to answer "we will see when they train together and I see/we see the level of every player. I am not going to handle the keys of any position to any given name"?

By the way, I would not trade Goodwin for a second round pick. I believe he showed last year that he belongs and that he can play two or three positions. I was very reluctant for three years until mid season last year. I saw some real improveness and a different mentality. God, he played PG for us when he supposedly had no handling abilities.

I do admit Goodwin had a nice stretch for a few games. I just don't really understand at all why they brought in Barbosa if they were thinking they were going to keep Goodwin. Maybe it's just to kind of have him mentor him to be a similar player.

[saintEscaton]

Goodwin was worse defensively than Booker .... let that sink in for a moment. He is just a ball watcher who occasionally locks in and doesn't use his length to his advantage on the perimeter, a slasher who is mediocre converting at the line/finishing through contact, doesn't know how to slow it down in the halfcourt and still has a broken jumper despite fixing that unsightly hitch. He was being mentioned in the same sentence as Avery Bradley not too long ago smh

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I still think Goodwin has an NBA future. But at this point I would be happy to get a couple seconds for him. I don't see many teams being particularly interested in his skillset.

PJ is the prime candidate to be moved. Should be coveted by plenty of teams and doesn't fit in well here. For him, too, I would expect two seconds.

If we could pair PJ and Archie to a team that wants both, maybe, just maybe, we could get a highly-protected first. I'm not holding my breath.

[GetYourPHX]

I don't think it makes any business sense for the Suns to move Archie. Remember, he's still younger than Kris Dunn, Buddy Heild, and Denzel Valentine. This offseason the Suns essentially get a free pass on letting him set the market for his services. Additionally, the FO gets to see how he responds to his upcoming restricted free agency every single day this season. Why move him now when he's still young, he's a RFA after this year, and we have his bird rights?

I don't think he's about to take a huge leap, but why not keep him around? Are a couple of second round picks really more valuable? Archie has proven that he has the athleticism to play in the NBA, he just needs to learn to shoot and develop a sense of the game. There's still time for that.

Moving Archie now would be like selling equity in a company before they even go to market. Trading him for a second is dumb.

The only way we move him is if he gets nasty in the locker room or as a favor to his agent.