The 2016 Offseason Thread

[bwgood77]

He pushed back his team option so we could sign someone else and complete our roster?

So he'd at least have a shot to stick. Otherwise he probably would have been cut this week. The further away it is the better the chance of someone being moved or something happening that would allow him to stay on the team. He could be the 15th of course, but we're awful thin at PF and I would guess we won't carry 7 guards.

Well I assume they asked him if he would move it back? His agent must know if other teams would take a chance on him. I do remember reading somewhere that Dallas was hoping he made it through waivers (they had to cut him to sign David Lee for PF depth) but planned on picking him up later or something like that.

[bwgood77]

I was listening to Coro yesterday and he said Warren grew to 6'9''. Hard to believe someone who's almost 23 would have another growth spurt, but I though that was interesting. I think he will play more minutes at PF than either Bender or Chriss will.

Well considering there were reports he was "swole" it would be nice if he could become a force defensively. The way the league has become, it's kind of pointless to keep trying to fit everyone into a traditional position.

I think there are basically three positions at this point. The point, wings and bigs. I would have said PG, but a forward or wing can run point also...heck, a big could run point....but you basically have the facilitator, perimeter guys and interior guys. The true power forward is a dying breed.

[bigfoot]

Given what I have seen in SL anyone else interested in seeing a Bledsoe, Tucker, Bender, Len, Chandler lineup? Bender has attacked the perimeter well on closeouts and drive-by's. Hes far from a complete defensive player, but his length and mobility are overcoming a lot of his weaknesses (strength, position, angles, posture)

It would be fun to watch offenses try to score against that lineup. The added extra height would complicate things for opposing offense as well. It might be even more fun with Booker at the point. 6'7", 6'5", 7'1", 7'1" 7'1"

I really want to see Ulis and Chandler run the pick-n-roll. The only guard who could run it reliably with Chandler last year was Booker. I can imagine Chandler, Booker, and Ulis coming off the bench to cause misery for opposing benches.

Bledsoe
Knight
Warren
Dudley
Len

Ulis
Booker
Tucker
Bender/Chriss
Chandler

[bwgood77]

Given what I have seen in SL anyone else interested in seeing a Bledsoe, Tucker, Bender, Len, Chandler lineup? Bender has attacked the perimeter well on closeouts and drive-by's. Hes far from a complete defensive player, but his length and mobility are overcoming a lot of his weaknesses (strength, position, angles, posture)

It would be fun to watch offenses try to score against that lineup. The added extra height would complicate things for opposing offense as well. It might be even more fun with Booker at the point. 6'7", 6'5", 7'1", 7'1" 7'1"

I really want to see Ulis and Chandler run the pick-n-roll. The only guard who could run it reliably with Chandler last year was Booker. I can imagine Chandler, Booker, and Ulis coming off the bench to cause misery for opposing benches.

Bledsoe
Knight
Warren
Dudley
Len

Ulis
Booker
Tucker
Bender/Chriss
Chandler

That's a perfect rotation. Booker would love coming in with Ulis anyway. Booker still plays the most minutes of anyone. so hopefully if he doesn't start, that those who are demanding he start are ok as long as he plays more minutes than anyone. Booker should be first sub in for whoever between 1-3 isn't feeling it, gets a couple fouls, or if just things are not clicking. Tucker can come in next at 3-4, and then Bledsoe sits right around the 8 minute mark and goes back in with about 8 remaining in the 2nd. Warren, Tucker and Dudley can each play 32 at 3/4, if need be, so just keep rotating them in and out,,,have Booker as third guard at some points so he can get close to 40 minutes and all should be good.

I wouldn't throw Chriss or Bender in there for awhile. Maybe for a few minutes at a time, but never together yet.

[letsgosuns]

I am going to say this right now. If the Phoenix Suns organization starts Brandon Knight over Devin Booker and sends Booker to the bench, I do not see how I could ever support them again until they get new ownership. Sending Booker to the bench is beyond unfathomable. Maybe if the Suns signed Wade and Booker takes himself out of the starting lineup in favor of Wade out of respect, that is one thing. But taking Booker out of the lineup for Brandon Knight? BRANDON KNIGHT!?! Yes I put that in caps because I am screaming about this. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRANDON KNIGHT SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

[Barkley6]

I was listening to Coro yesterday and he said Warren grew to 6'9''. Hard to believe someone who's almost 23 would have another growth spurt, but I though that was interesting. I think he will play more minutes at PF than either Bender or Chriss will.

Well considering there were reports he was "swole" it would be nice if he could become a force defensively. The way the league has become, it's kind of pointless to keep trying to fit everyone into a traditional position.

I think there are basically three positions at this point. The point, wings and bigs. I would have said PG, but a forward or wing can run point also...heck, a big could run point....but you basically have the facilitator, perimeter guys and interior guys. The true power forward is a dying breed.

This is really spot on and I think we will start changing the way we talk about the different positions because they have by and large coalesced into the three you've outlined. The idea isn't necessarily new, but the SSOL Suns did kind of pioneer it a little bit by basically saying 2 and 3 are the same position in that system, and now with the premium being put on a 'stretch four' type player in the league, the differences between guards and forwards is really minimal. In year past it was usually a players height more than anything that determined their position, with a few anomalies like Magic Johnson. Now it's really your game, as we're seeing 6'9'' guys be called centers, 7'1'' guys are wings etc.

[JMac1]

I am going to say this right now. If the Phoenix Suns organization starts Brandon Knight over Devin Booker and sends Booker to the bench, I do not see how I could ever support them again until they get new ownership. Sending Booker to the bench is beyond unfathomable. Maybe if the Suns signed Wade and Booker takes himself out of the starting lineup in favor of Wade out of respect, that is one thing. But taking Booker out of the lineup for Brandon Knight? BRANDON KNIGHT!?! Yes I put that in caps because I am screaming about this. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRANDON KNIGHT SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

I am not screaming, but I agree. Your franchise guy doesn't come off of the bench. Contrary to popular belief, being called at starter matters. Why do you think Knight doesn't want to come off of the bench and IT didn't and AI didn't.

No body falls for that, well you will play more minutes garbage. If you ain't starting you are a bench player!

[bwgood77]

I am going to say this right now. If the Phoenix Suns organization starts Brandon Knight over Devin Booker and sends Booker to the bench, I do not see how I could ever support them again until they get new ownership. Sending Booker to the bench is beyond unfathomable. Maybe if the Suns signed Wade and Booker takes himself out of the starting lineup in favor of Wade out of respect, that is one thing. But taking Booker out of the lineup for Brandon Knight? BRANDON KNIGHT!?! Yes I put that in caps because I am screaming about this. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRANDON KNIGHT SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

I am not screaming, but I agree. Your franchise guy doesn't come off of the bench. Contrary to popular belief, being called at starter matters. Why do you think Knight doesn't want to come off of the bench and IT didn't and AI didn't.

No body falls for that, well you will play more minutes garbage. If you ain't starting you are a bench player!

I think Sarver probably wants Booker to start, and they plan to start him at some point. I don't know what to think. I do know I want Booker to play as many minutes as possible. Knight looked somewhat impressive at times early in the season. But about a month in, when we went on that road trip, the wheels fell off at the end of two games against Detroit and Memphis with such crazy mistakes that I lost any last hope that I could be a fan of the way he played.

I specifically remember, in both games, tied or with a lead and the ball and less the 24 seconds left on the shot clock and I typed in caps in both games...ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS NOT TURN IT OVER.. so we could run the clock out and win or go into OT, he once threw it to Marcus Morris and the other time fumbled it out of bounds..I think there was like 2 seconds left against Memphis when he fumbled the inbounds pass leading to a alley oop slam dunk at the buzzer by Jeff Green..

He kind of never recovered. Nor did I. The whole team never did. I think we actually came back and won at Chicago to close out that trip, but that trip was kind of the beginning of the end.

I know Watson is preaching ball movement but I don't know if Knight's habits are ingrained his game and he just automatically will always default to that or not...dribbling too long with the ball and jacking up long 2s..but it's not fun to watch.

Few people like his game, and the reason he would start is to trade him and for no other reason, so if you want him gone, that is likely the best way to go. If you want him here, by all means let him come off the bench.

We all want Booker to be the long term starter by mid season. If you knew he was traded by mid season if he started for two months but Booker played more, or we kept him for 4 years coming off the bench for 30 minutes a night, which would you choose?

[letsgosuns]

I want to start the season off with the best chance to win games. That means Booker has to start. The Suns threw away the entire season last year by waiting until the deadline to trade Markieff. I am not interested in showcasing Knight as a starter just to build up his trade value. Forget that. I want to win.

[bigfoot]

I am going to say this right now. If the Phoenix Suns organization starts Brandon Knight over Devin Booker and sends Booker to the bench, I do not see how I could ever support them again until they get new ownership. Sending Booker to the bench is beyond unfathomable. Maybe if the Suns signed Wade and Booker takes himself out of the starting lineup in favor of Wade out of respect, that is one thing. But taking Booker out of the lineup for Brandon Knight? BRANDON KNIGHT!?! Yes I put that in caps because I am screaming about this. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRANDON KNIGHT SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

I am not screaming, but I agree. Your franchise guy doesn't come off of the bench. Contrary to popular belief, being called at starter matters. Why do you think Knight doesn't want to come off of the bench and IT didn't and AI didn't.

No body falls for that, well you will play more minutes garbage. If you ain't starting you are a bench player!

In an interview, Coach Watson gave a perfect example of sacrifice made by a player who should be a starter but played the sixth man role to perfection. That player he mentioned was Ginobli. One of Booker or Knight is going to have to accept that role. As fans we should be happy that we have a sixth man because any team that is going to compete for the playoffs needs one.

Statistically Booker and Knight are damn near identical ... http://bkref.com/tiny/MkTwx

If Booker starts Bledsoe will still be the number one option and Len should continue to get more opportunities in the post. In terms of chemistry and touches Booker is gonna handle the ball more with Ulis. He will also get more shots as a sixth man. What really matters is who is playing in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Ginobli was always playing the final minutes.

[lilfishi22]

I am going to say this right now. If the Phoenix Suns organization starts Brandon Knight over Devin Booker and sends Booker to the bench, I do not see how I could ever support them again until they get new ownership. Sending Booker to the bench is beyond unfathomable. Maybe if the Suns signed Wade and Booker takes himself out of the starting lineup in favor of Wade out of respect, that is one thing. But taking Booker out of the lineup for Brandon Knight? BRANDON KNIGHT!?! Yes I put that in caps because I am screaming about this. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRANDON KNIGHT SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

I am not screaming, but I agree. Your franchise guy doesn't come off of the bench. Contrary to popular belief, being called at starter matters. Why do you think Knight doesn't want to come off of the bench and IT didn't and AI didn't.

No body falls for that, well you will play more minutes garbage. If you ain't starting you are a bench player!

In an interview, Coach Watson gave a perfect example of sacrifice made by a player who should be a starter but played the sixth man role to perfection. That player he mentioned was Ginobli. One of Booker or Knight is going to have to accept that role. As fans we should be happy that we have a sixth man because any team that is going to compete for the playoffs needs one.

Statistically Booker and Knight are damn near identical ... http://bkref.com/tiny/MkTwx

If Booker starts Bledsoe will still be the number one option and Len should continue to get more opportunities in the post. In terms of chemistry and touches Booker is gonna handle the ball more with Ulis. He will also get more shots as a sixth man. What really matters is who is playing in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Ginobli was always playing the final minutes.

This is a good balanced take on this Knight v Booker situation. I agree with it. It honestly doesn't matter who starts, it's about which player works with which unit best to produce the best results and who plays in the (hopefully close and competitive) 4th quarter.

[Damkac]

Wouldn't suprise me if they both will start. Looking at Suns roster they will play small ball a lot. Even if you have 3-man guard rotation with just Bled, Book and Knight, that's 32 minutes per player. Barbosa will get his minutes, Ulis definitely deserve to get rotation spot. I'm sure Booker will spend some time at sf while Tucker and Warren will play some pf.

[letsgosuns]

There are three things that lead me to believe Booker is starting. Firstly, Gambo stated multiple times that Booker is going to start and just recently said Knight is going to back up Bledsoe, although Knight can come in for Booker at shooting guard as well. Secondly, Dudley himself said in an interview that he is going to help Knight adjust to his role as a back up off the bench. Why would he say that if the Suns are planning on starting Knight. Thirdly, the Suns organization is making Booker the face of the franchise. I said that multiple times already. You go on the Suns website and Booker is the player on the left side of the page that is part of the background. No one else. There is even a ticket package named after him called Booker's Dozen. You do not market a player that way and then put him on the bench. It would be like if the Suns benched Amare after his rookie season in favor of Gugliotta. Booker has to start.

[Zelaznyrules]

I want to start the season off with the best chance to win games. That means Booker has to start. The Suns threw away the entire season last year by waiting until the deadline to trade Markieff. I am not interested in showcasing Knight as a starter just to build up his trade value. Forget that. I want to win.

If winning games from the opening of the season is the sole priority, I think Knight starts hand down. Keep in mind that we never saw the real Brandon Knight. Assuming he's finally completely healthy, he's a better player than Booker was this past season. I don't know how much Devin will have improved by the opening of the season but I doubt it's enough to pass Brandon by just yet. I'd still rather start Booker though because no matter which player is better right now, I think Devin gives us the best chance to win long term. Plus, I'd much rather watch him play than Knight. Also, fortunately, I think Watson plans on starting Booker no matter what unless the front office tells him otherwise.

Also, despite seeing it on message boards frequently, saying we lost a whole season to Markieff really doesn't tell the true story of the 2015-2016 Suns. You could just as easily point to the complete disappearance of Tucker's game. Or Chandler's nagging injuries and embarrassingly slow start. Or Knight's ankle or Knight's Groin. Or Bledsoe's knee. Or TJ's broken foot. Or Leuer's ankle, knee, hip, wrist, whatever injuries. Or Len's hand problems. Or Ronnie Price's toe. Or Hornacek's interpersonal skills. Or, more accurately, the combination of all of these plus Markieff.

But regardless, we obviously aren't going to win it all this season. If the front office believes we can get significantly more in return by starting and showcasing Knight for 3 months than we can by just trading him right away, I think it would be shortsighted to not start him. And I'm one that thinks all wins are valuable.

[Qwigglez]

I think Knight would be better playing against opposing team's benches too. He can do his chucking routine with LB and that can create a very dynamic one-two punch combo off the bench. Bled/Book are the Suns two best creators at this point so I expect them to start.

[JMac1]

I am going to say this right now. If the Phoenix Suns organization starts Brandon Knight over Devin Booker and sends Booker to the bench, I do not see how I could ever support them again until they get new ownership. Sending Booker to the bench is beyond unfathomable. Maybe if the Suns signed Wade and Booker takes himself out of the starting lineup in favor of Wade out of respect, that is one thing. But taking Booker out of the lineup for Brandon Knight? BRANDON KNIGHT!?! Yes I put that in caps because I am screaming about this. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRANDON KNIGHT SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

I am not screaming, but I agree. Your franchise guy doesn't come off of the bench. Contrary to popular belief, being called at starter matters. Why do you think Knight doesn't want to come off of the bench and IT didn't and AI didn't.

No body falls for that, well you will play more minutes garbage. If you ain't starting you are a bench player!

I think Sarver probably wants Booker to start, and they plan to start him at some point. I don't know what to think. I do know I want Booker to play as many minutes as possible. Knight looked somewhat impressive at times early in the season. But about a month in, when we went on that road trip, the wheels fell off at the end of two games against Detroit and Memphis with such crazy mistakes that I lost any last hope that I could be a fan of the way he played.

I specifically remember, in both games, tied or with a lead and the ball and less the 24 seconds left on the shot clock and I typed in caps in both games...ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS NOT TURN IT OVER.. so we could run the clock out and win or go into OT, he once threw it to Marcus Morris and the other time fumbled it out of bounds..I think there was like 2 seconds left against Memphis when he fumbled the inbounds pass leading to a alley oop slam dunk at the buzzer by Jeff Green..

He kind of never recovered. Nor did I. The whole team never did. I think we actually came back and won at Chicago to close out that trip, but that trip was kind of the beginning of the end.

I know Watson is preaching ball movement but I don't know if Knight's habits are ingrained his game and he just automatically will always default to that or not...dribbling too long with the ball and jacking up long 2s..but it's not fun to watch.

Few people like his game, and the reason he would start is to trade him and for no other reason, so if you want him gone, that is likely the best way to go. If you want him here, by all means let him come off the bench.

We all want Booker to be the long term starter by mid season. If you knew he was traded by mid season if he started for two months but Booker played more, or we kept him for 4 years coming off the bench for 30 minutes a night, which would you choose?

I want Booker to start and play more minutes. Knight is a sixth man for one reason, he only looks for his shot, aka Jamal Crawford. Those guys are come off of the bench to fire away...

[Saberestar]

I am happy with the idea of Bledsoe and Booker starting, they complement each other really well.

Ulis and Knight can be a great tandem coming from the bench, Ulis can dominate the ball and Knight would be more a spot up shooter and a fastbreak man.

I do not think they would have problems with their size because bench players are not that big or strong to make serious damage. Knight can defend players like Waiters, Bayless or Belinelli.

[bwgood77]

I am going to say this right now. If the Phoenix Suns organization starts Brandon Knight over Devin Booker and sends Booker to the bench, I do not see how I could ever support them again until they get new ownership. Sending Booker to the bench is beyond unfathomable. Maybe if the Suns signed Wade and Booker takes himself out of the starting lineup in favor of Wade out of respect, that is one thing. But taking Booker out of the lineup for Brandon Knight? BRANDON KNIGHT!?! Yes I put that in caps because I am screaming about this. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRANDON KNIGHT SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

I am not screaming, but I agree. Your franchise guy doesn't come off of the bench. Contrary to popular belief, being called at starter matters. Why do you think Knight doesn't want to come off of the bench and IT didn't and AI didn't.

No body falls for that, well you will play more minutes garbage. If you ain't starting you are a bench player!

In an interview, Coach Watson gave a perfect example of sacrifice made by a player who should be a starter but played the sixth man role to perfection. That player he mentioned was Ginobli. One of Booker or Knight is going to have to accept that role. As fans we should be happy that we have a sixth man because any team that is going to compete for the playoffs needs one.

Statistically Booker and Knight are damn near identical ... http://bkref.com/tiny/MkTwx

If Booker starts Bledsoe will still be the number one option and Len should continue to get more opportunities in the post. In terms of chemistry and touches Booker is gonna handle the ball more with Ulis. He will also get more shots as a sixth man. What really matters is who is playing in the fourth quarter when the game is on the line. Ginobli was always playing the final minutes.

That's crazy that Knight and Booker are nearly identical statistically, considering Knight played with much better players coming off early in the season with Bledsoe and the centers healthy to start, and Booker as an 18 year old rookie playing with Ronnie Price and Markieff dogging it and with Warren out and twin towers, allowing teams to focus purely on Booker defensively. Imagine how much Booker will be this year too. But yeah, Ginobili was much better than Bowen and Harden was much better than OKC's starting 3 when Harden was sixth man and better than whoever started with Westbrook and Durant back then and those teams were very effective with them in that role.

For the record I'd prefer Booker to start, but am prepared for whatever the coach decides because I think it can work either way as long as Booker is starting at some point in the season and is playing as many or more minutes than anyone.

[NavLDO]

I was listening to Coro yesterday and he said Warren grew to 6'9''. Hard to believe someone who's almost 23 would have another growth spurt, but I though that was interesting. I think he will play more minutes at PF than either Bender or Chriss will.

Well considering there were reports he was "swole" it would be nice if he could become a force defensively. The way the league has become, it's kind of pointless to keep trying to fit everyone into a traditional position.

I think there are basically three positions at this point. The point, wings and bigs. I would have said PG, but a forward or wing can run point also...heck, a big could run point....but you basically have the facilitator, perimeter guys and interior guys. The true power forward is a dying breed.

Maybe so, but the Len-with-Chandler on the floor experiment didn't work out so well, so I hope we see more Len OR Chandler, with Warren and Duds, with Bledsoe and Booker. That would be may starting 5:

Bledsoe - 6' 1"
Booker - 6' 7"
Dudley - 6' 7"
Warren - 6' 9"
Len - 7' 1"

And regarding what Coro and the OP of this post said, remember Warren was 6' 8.25" when he was measured at the Combine, and is now 22, so it's not unfathomable that Warren grew, say, a half an inch at age 20-21...NOT now at 22, and now is 6' 8.75", and they are rounding up to 6' 9". Also, it could be entirely possible that since Booker measured in at 6'7", that the Suns' height measurements are simply off by a half inch or so??? Who knows??

[bwgood77]

Wouldn't suprise me if they both will start. Looking at Suns roster they will play small ball a lot. Even if you have 3-man guard rotation with just Bled, Book and Knight, that's 32 minutes per player. Barbosa will get his minutes, Ulis definitely deserve to get rotation spot. I'm sure Booker will spend some time at sf while Tucker and Warren will play some pf.

That wouldn't surprise me either, and we could get hot offensively to start the game, but I'd hope they move the ball around enough but you'd have four 3 pt shooters. I think it makes sense to bring one off the bench though for more scoring power off the bench. Not sure if there is enough shots for all those guys playing together and would weaken the bench.